Loading .357, .38, .44sp, .44mag, all shooting in revolvers.

Question, roll crimp on all? Most will be "light" loads.

Yes,roll crimp for revolvers and taper crimp for semi autos

My most used crimp die is the Redding "Profile" or "pro" crimp.
It can be adjusted from a light to a heavy crimp depending on the bullet and it's cannelure or groove.
This crimp is supposed to be the best one for retaining bullets against creep.
Used a lot by the really big bore revolver folks.
Recommended.
This is a separate die for manual reloading.
I suppose it could be used in a progressive but they usually have their own.
I do use a taper crimp in revolvers and single shots but only if the case and the cannelure don't meet up.
Again I use a Redding for that.

Attached Images

ReddingCrimpDies.jpg (252.4 KB, 93 views)

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

The simple default answer is Yes .

That said, there are addendums:

Sometimes taper crimps are used on revolvers on purpose, with specific good results.

The Redding Profile is the ultimate crimping die, with certain heavy loads with slow powders, its the greatest thing since sliced bread. But most of the time conventional dies work fine.

In the same spirit, sometimes with specific combinations of brass, bullet, and chamber, the Lee Factory Crimp Die will solve problems of stacked tolerences. But usually not needed, and conventional dies usually just fine.

I will use a LFC for rifle rounds like the 444 but not for revolver rounds.
The revolver LFC has it's own carbide ring that resizes the body.
This may defeat any neck sizing only procedures like the Redding dual carbide or plain neck sizing.
For normal use I guess it's OK but I already have all those other dies.
If anyone knows the actual Inside Diameter of the LFC 44 carbide ring, I would appreciate the information.
Then I will compare that to the body part of the Redding dual die and possibly change my mind about all this.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

Now this is measuring with a manual dial caliper and not something more accurate, but I read .452" on the carbide ring on my 44 mag FCD. Hope that helps you out.

I use the LEE FCD in my 4-hole classic press on every caliber I reload - 380 acp, 9mm, 38 spl, 357 mag, 44 spl, & 44 mag. They are infinitely adjustable, so I can get everything from a very light taper crimp on the auto rounds to a super heavy roll crimp on the magnums. I've only been reloading a couple of years, but it's always worked well for me. Of course as with all thing reloading, YMMV.

Light loads don't necessarily need a heavy crimp. Accuracy may be better with a lighter crimp.

Are these jacketed, cast, swaged or plated bullets? The bullet you use may point you in different directions. Jacketed, cannelured bullets or cast bullets with a crimp groove can use and may benefit from a roll crimp. Swaged, ungrooved bullets or plated bullets are better off with a taper crimp at the most. Typically, you would just straighten out the flare and crimp very little or nothing.

My default for revolvers is Redding's profile crimp as others have mentioned. Lightly applied it's akin to a taper crimp. Push it a bit and the taper increases while the mouth turns in like a roll crimp. It's a great die that solved all my crimping problems.

Another popular die is Lee's Factory Crimp Die. I've tried them and don't care for them. There doesn't seem to be middle ground. Folks love 'em or hate 'em. I shoot a lot of cast bullets and dislike the fact that they swag down my bullets. No science here as I quit using the die without much experimentation. It just doesn't make sense to me to oversize cast bullets and have them squeezed down during seating.

yep yep.
I load some 44 bullets as large as .432 or .433 for 1980's era revolvers.
This makes the round so big around it won't even go into the Profile crimp die.
These I use the seat/crimp die with the seat stem removed.
Thanks for making clear what I could not about the LFC revolver dies.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

I roll crimp all cast bullet revolver handloads. I have read magazine
articles in which different crimps were compared with cast bullet
handloads and generous roll crimps promote better ignition and higher
velocity.

Can you elaborate a little more on this? AFAIK my Lee FCD has a machined "ring" inside that does the crimping and that ring has roughly the same inside diameter as the outside of the flared BRASS that the bullet has already been pushed (seated) into.

The crimping "ring" just contacts the outside of the brass and swags it in onto a very narrow area of the bullet. It doesn't even touch most of length of the bullet OR the brass. Admittedly it may swag that little ring of the bullet smaller but most of the time that area is already smaller in diameter - it is a cannelure.

Even without a cannelure the area getting swagged by the crimp is only at most 10%-20% of the entire straight-sided portion of the bullet between the base and the ogive. So it seems to me that 80%-90% of the sides of the bullet - the part that engages the rifling - isn't affected by the crimp at all - no matter how far or hard you crimp it.

So i guess I don't understand the issue. I'm still kinda new to reloading so I guess I need a little more education/explanation to help me understand.

BC38, the problem with the Lee FCD and oversized cast bullets isn't the crimping part of the die. It is the carbide sizing ring that is right at the entrance of the die itself. They are supposed to be at SAAMI maximum diameter, but tend to resize a cast bullet by squeezing them down when setting the crimp. I'm thinking about buying myself a Redding profile crimp die for 44 and 357 Mag sizes so I don't have this happening with my coated bullets I buy from Bayou Bullets. Some of the cases I reload must have thicker brass than others and you can feel a sizable resistance when crimping on that brass.

Hmmn, OK. When crimping my loads I'm not feeling anything making any contact inside the FCD until the point where it bottoms and the crimp ring makes contact with the case mouth to actually do the crimp.

Must be that my resized brass is smaller in diameter than yours. When using these oversized bullets are you not resizing your brass, or maybe resizing it with a larger diameter resizing die?

Because unless I really flare my resized brass, bullets that are 2 or 3 thousandths oversized are going to get shaved (if the mouth isn't flared enough) or swagged (if the brass isn't expanded deep enough) by the seating step - before I even get to the step where I crimp using the FCD.

It almost sounds like you're talking about seating and crimping in one step with one die - not actually using a separate seating die and Factory Crimp Die (FCD) to do the two operations as separate steps like I do.

Nope, doing it in separate steps with 2 different dies. And as far as cases go, if I am reloading my R-P cases I feel no drag at all when they go in the FCD. With Starline and Federal brass I feel from very light to slightly moderate drag going into the FCD. With Speer brass I feel moderate pressure going into the FCD past the sizing ring. But with Win and W-W brass it is very noticeable when going in past the sizing ring and I feel might be swaging the bullet a bit inside the case. Now this is 30 year old Win and W-W brass, as is all my other brass except the Starline, which I bought in the last couple of years. And this is all when reloading coated cast bullets from Bayou Bullets, not jacketed stuff.

The FCD is a possible solution to a die adjustment problem. Adjust them properly and the FCD is superfluous at best. And yes that carbide ring can and will swage down a slightly oversize bullet or bullet/case combo.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

Yes with thicker brass and large for caliber bullets you can feel the resistance as the cartridge passes through the carbide sizer on the LFCD for pistols. If you aren't using large for caliber lead you should feel little to no contact on that carbide sizing ring if all operations were preformed properly before that stage. That ring is a fail safe to make sure the reloaded cartridge will feed smoothly in any gun of that caliber, it isn't meant to magically solve misadjusted die issues or poor brass prep, or loading oversized lead. It works great for knocking out minor inconsistencies in used brass and I like the crimp, but if you are loading for a gun with oversized throats get ready to remove some leading. Just skip the LFCD for those big lead bullets it will uncustomize your customization in a tick.

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Trucks and guns.

Well, that makes sense then. I'm not using oversized lead - and I guess I must be doing the preceding steps right, since there's no drag going in or out until the crimp ring contacts the case mouth.

Using a cheap pin gage set, I found that a .453 will pass thru the Redding body die but a .454 will not.
A Starline 445 loaded with a .432 GC cast bullet (the GC may be .433) measures .454+".
This illustrates the problem of running a cast bullet 44 cartridge thru the LFC die.
The Redding die is not a problem because I use it before the bullets are put in.
Thanks for the information.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

No problem Nemo288, that's why I measured them and posted up. Most all of us here are around to help out and also learn more about reloading and other people's experiences doing so. I've been reloading for 50+ years, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything either. I learn new stuff here all the time.

I bought the FCD dies because I like to crimp separately and they were at a good price point and they work well with jacketed bullets. But I find with hard cast, coated bullets and depending on the brass involved, I'm probably getting some swaging going on in 357 and 44 Mag. That's why I plan to eventually replace them with the Redding profile crimp dies.

Roll crimp die: get Redding Profile Crimp Dies.

My feelings too. You can adjust it too from a light to heavy crimp as needed.

I just looked these up on the 'net.

WOWIE!

I hope they are some seriously superior tools. The Reding crimp die alone costs more than a Lee 4 die set - which includes their FCD, a dipper, and a shell plate.

They are that good and last a lifetime (or more).
I have been using mine for over 30 years and it looks brand new.
The inside may be a little polished from use (many 1000's of rounds).
As I mentioned above the only drawback is that they are manufactured to such tight tolerance, an oversized cast bullet load may not fit in to crimp.
This keeps the cartridge centered while you crimp.
For the ones that don't fit I use a seat/crimp die which does work but is looser tolerance.
Think these are pricey check the dual carbide sizing dies.
I like those enough, I got both 44 magnum and special.
Again, they should be going strong long after I am gone.
Guess you could say I am a Redding kind of guy (RCBS too).

Attached Images

	ReddingCrimpDies.jpg (252.4 KB, 13 views)
	ReloadingBench3.jpg (286.0 KB, 17 views)

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

Just trying to understand here, is the longevity of the Redding that superior to the Lee carbide dies?

I've heard a lot of people make disparaging remarks about Lee equipment, but so far I've never heard anyone claim to have worn out one of their carbide dies.

But you've been reloading a lot longer than me, so maybe you have?

RCBS are good quality, medium priced dies. They work...

Light loads in revolvers need only a light crimp. As the loads go up or the gun gets lighter, increase crimp if you see any sign of bullets backing out of the cases after all prior shots have been fired.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Redding profile crimp die: You get what you pay for. Well, not always. Actually you don't get what you don't pay for.

For another bromide: Cry once. I when I bought my FCDs, but I every time I tried to use them. Then, I when I replaced my FCDs with profile crimp dies, but I every time I use them.

I've found that on some of my Lee FCD sets the crimp die's carbide ring's inside diameter is just too small. My 40 S&W & 41 Mag dragged even with regular diameter jacketed bullets seated. With lead bullets it was worse. Reluctantly I decided to remove the carbide ring from those troublesome cartridge sets. The other sets are fine.

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Waiting for the break of day

BLUEDOT37, how did you get that carbide ring out of the die without screwing the die up? If I could do that I wouldn't have to fork out the money for the profile crimp dies.

I've heard of that happening before. I had one brand of brass that was particularly thick (in .40S&W can't remember which it was... I think maybe CBC) that went through tighter than I like with some jacketed speer projectiles. I switched headstamp and it was better. I'm sure getting undersized sizers can happen. Humans made them. So far on the whole I've had good luck with the Lee 4 die sets. I just don't do oversized lead or coated projectiles in the LFCD for pistols. If it was a big issue for me I would totally knock out the ring just as you did.

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Trucks and guns.

BC38 sezzed:
"Just trying to understand here, is the longevity of the Redding that superior to the Lee carbide dies?"

My first 44 die set was a Lee carbide.
After awhile I realized it was leaving a nice ring or edge at the bottom of the sized area.
The surface profile of the carbide was not correct and smooth at the bottom.
After I went to Redding and RCBS carbide, no more ring around the base.
I never wore it out. It just wasn't quality.
I DID wear out a Lee hand primer.
All plastic.
It broke after a few years and I got to not liking the short stroke handle.
The Sinclair hand primer is like Redding.
Expensive and very high quality.
I don't expect to ever wear it out or break it.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

I did them two different ways. Each way has it's cautions.

On the 40 S&W I screwed the FCD into my workbench mounted RCBS JR3 press from the bottom with the die's opening/carbide ring facing up. With a bunch of judicious pounding from my hammer & chisel I finally cracked the carbide ring enough to remove. Boogered up the chisel (carbide ring hard) but no biggie. Be careful not to damage the die's threads. Mine had a few threads dinged but a small triangle file fixed that.

On the 41 Mag I screwed it in the press the same way but used a hacksaw to cut the end of the die off where the carbide ring touches the metal lip inside the body. That lip, which the ring rests against, is needed to keep the crimp plug from falling out (when right side up). I got a little too close so I used a center punch to put a few dimps in the newly cut bottom face of the die so the crimp plug wouldn't drop out.

They work fine now. No more ring, no more drag.

.

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Waiting for the break of day

I wonder if heating or freezing would make it easier. Thermal coefficients for steel and carbide are quite different. I think carbide shrinks less on cooling so probanly heat.

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Trucks and guns.

Lee FCD on all my revolver and carbine loads. Nice to be able to adjust the crimp which is usually pretty light.

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That's just somebody talkin.

I don't seem to have had any trouble adjusting the crimp with regular dies (mentioned above).
The main advantage of the LFCD is it gives you a more consistent crimp when you have brass that has not been length trimmed.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

Being able to quickly adjust the FCD's crimping knob, & then go quickly back to where you were (if you index mark it with a Sharpie) is very handy when you have some cases shorter/longer than the average cases you set it up for.

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Waiting for the break of day

Yes roll crimp on all loads shot in revolvers, light to heavy.
There is absolutely no need to make the crimp a complicated or an expensive issue. Three die set from RCBS or Lyman
with the roll crimp seating die. The amount of crimp can
easily be adjusted and there's really no good reason not to
seat and crimp at the same time and you won't live long
enough to wear one out.

Bigfoot is right: revolver bullets that don't have a crimp groove need to be taper crimped.

You don't need one unless planning to shoot IHMSA or similar discipline that requires top accuracy.

$30 for the die - yep it's pricey compared to Lee, but you'll spend more than that in ammo or components in short order. So put in perspective, it's not that bad. If you're not spending that much for your fodder, then handloading probably isn't for you as you could get by with factory ammo.

Us handloaders are ummmm.... a "frugal" bunch.

Guilty as charged!