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Old 05-30-2016, 09:18 AM
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Default First squib

Shooting 45acp Saturday had a round sound funny and no ping on the steel target. Drop the mag, check the chamber and no sunlight looking down the barrel. ****!
I had ordered Lee powder through dies for 9mm and 45acp along with a adapter to mount my powder measure on top. Completely different from my usual loading tray method. I thought I checked every powder drop but evidently one got by me. At least I hope only one! I didn't have a proper check in place. Lesson learned.
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Old 05-30-2016, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Collo Rosso View Post
Shooting 45acp Saturday had a round sound funny and no ping on the steel target. Drop the mag, check the chamber and no sunlight looking down the barrel. ****!
I had ordered Lee powder through dies for 9mm and 45acp along with a adapter to mount my powder measure on top. Completely different from my usual loading tray method. I thought I checked every powder drop but evidently one got by me. At least I hope only one! I didn't have a proper check in place. Lesson learned.
Fecal material happens, learn from your mistake!

It is far better to do it that way than put a double charge in a case. I had the misfortune years back of firing a friends max reload that got a double charge. Good thing it was in my Model 27 and not his lighter Model 19. Gun had to go back to factory for repair but it survived along with me.
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Old 05-30-2016, 11:00 AM
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"Dark Barrels" are scary !!

Glad you caught that bad boy.

I have tried lots of below starting loads but have been lucky
thanks to my chrony and double checking the cases before adding the bullets.

I had one load so slow that I had to slide my head set off one
ear to hear the report. A 9mm 124gr plated at only 701fps.

May that be your last one and clear days ahead for you.
Stay safe.
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Old 05-30-2016, 11:31 AM
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Welcome to the club. If you've reloaded over a long period of time, it can happen. I've had one stuck in the barrel and another that left the barrel with enough force to throw it down the floor of the range. You just have to be aware when this happens so you don't accidentally put another round down the stuck barrel.
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Old 05-30-2016, 12:19 PM
Clovishound Clovishound is offline
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Sounds like you are using a turret press. If so there are a couple ways to check a powder charge without removing the case from the press. The easiest, for me, is to use a powder check die.

The shorter auto cases are generally pretty easy to see the powder level without resorting to special lights. You do have to look EVERY time before seating a bullet though.
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Old 05-30-2016, 01:43 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
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Wink Ultra Lite loads

I started handloading about 25 yrs. ago making 45 ACP 230 gr. hard ball loads for both 1911 semiauto and 625 revolver. I loaded a charge I got from a loading manual. Had no chronograph; not sure I knew what one was.

Anyway, I was shooting a USPSA match one Sunday morning when the RO looked at me funny and asked what my load was. I told him and he said: "I can follow your bullet all the way, surprised it doesn't bounce off the card board."

I managed to get chronoed and I was running below 600 fps. I don't remember exact details any more and the whole episode seems funny now.
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Old 05-30-2016, 04:16 PM
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Used to see my .38 wadcutters going down range all the time. Never squibbed one though.
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Old 05-30-2016, 05:57 PM
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Never had one of these happen to me. It sounds like a potentially dangerous situation.

Other than a sound difference, what other identifiers are there?
Sound - what exactly does it sound like? Rifle vs handgun?
Also... can you feel the difference in recoil? I would assume that there would be no recoil - just a muffled bang and cycling of blowback auto. A squib happening in a gas AR would need to make it past the gas bleed to cycle and the cycling might be mistaken for recoil but I just don't know.

Any help to let us know the signs would be appreciated.
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Old 05-30-2016, 06:48 PM
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Most of the time a squib won't operate the slide on a semi. Not hard and fast, but usually. As you said, muffled report. Little to no recoil. Often a bullet will stick in the forcing cone and prevent the cylinder from advancing. Again, not always. When in doubt, check it out.

I keep a dowel in my range bag in case I need to check the barrel. I saw a model 10 with a barrel filled with bullets, forcing cone to muzzle. Probably one squib followed by a bunch of target loads.
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Old 05-30-2016, 07:17 PM
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I batch load on a single stage press. I drop the powder, weigh it, dump it into case after verifying case is empty, and seat bullet. I have no plans to ever change that procedure. It might be slow, but I don't shoot more than 2 times a month and have plenty in reserve. Not saying I will never make a mistake in reloading, but I am certain I will never get a squib or a kaboom doing it my way. I also load middle of the road recipes.
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Old 05-30-2016, 07:25 PM
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I thought it sounded funny, more pop than bang, little recoil and the slide didn't cycle. The empty case ejected when I locked the slide back. When I got home I made a squib rod out of a length of stainless round stock wrapped with electrical tape. Bullet was a inch down the barrel and took more than a few wacks of a small hammer to get it out.
Glad I caught it as I really like my S.A. stainless loaded target!
My guess is I missed cycling the powder measure and the primer drove the bullet.
I've separated out the 9mm and 45acp I loaded using my new process. I haven't decided if I'm going to pull or shoot carefully yet.
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Old 05-30-2016, 09:00 PM
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I carry a squib rod in my range bag all the time. I shoot a couple of matches a week (USPSA) I probably use my rod around once a month or so (never really kept track). I haven't had a squib in years but there are a lot of novice reloaders so the sound of "pop" followed by a chorus of "stop" is not that unusual. My rod is solid brass and .325 in diameter. I also have a knob on one end so it can be driven with a palm hammer (my hand). Does the job and the newbie reloaders rarely make that mistake again.
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Old 05-30-2016, 09:09 PM
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"...you can watch the vapor trail as the pill heads toward the target."

Did that with the M1 and m14 when in the service.
Later with my 22-250 and 1903 custom.
Its a gas out to 300 yards if the weather is right.
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Old 05-31-2016, 01:02 AM
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Default Good for you!

Good for you for stopping and checking your barrel!!!! Several 'attaboys' for that.
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collo Rosso View Post
I had ordered Lee powder through dies for 9mm and 45acp along with a adapter to mount my powder measure on top. Completely different from my usual loading tray method. I thought I checked every powder drop but evidently one got by me. At least I hope only one! I didn't have a proper check in place. Lesson learned.
If you were batch processing before, that makes me think you're on a single-stage. I've found--at least on my LCT--that trying to charge without agitating the Lee Auto-Disk (both Pro and regular) leads to lighter-than-expected charges. And frankly, I just don't trust the Micro Charge Bar for loading blind with smaller charges of bigger powders.

You should also note that, if this is your first time using an automatic powder dispenser, you misfortunately can't simply choose whatever charge weight in whatever powder you want, and also load "blind"--that is, without weighing every charge. Large flake powders like Universal have a habit of bridging. 700-X is notorious for this.

So--I'd suggest favoring finer-grained powders if at all possible. Bullseye and WST work well even in tiny charges. And any time you're loading a new lightest charge of a particular powder, take the time to weigh every single charge for the first 50 or 100. I can think of a couple times I was about to give up on the 43rd or 44th cartridge and gotten a 1.3 gr charge instead of the expected 4.0. You can't trust your eyes, the case doesn't have to be empty or even noticeably light to squib.
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Old 06-01-2016, 05:15 AM
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I can load 50 rounds in about 20 minutes. Slow, I guess, but for the volume of shooting I do it's fine. I must have 5000 rounds already loaded. Every one of the individually weighed. I guess what I'm saying is I would rather go slow and know the rounds are properly charged. And I don't spend more than 2 hours a week (Usually less) at my bench.
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:25 AM
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If you reload long enough chances are at one point in time you will hit a squib. I sure have, very noticeable, fairly easy fix. By the way, if ever in a bind to get a squib out you can always use the bronze rod on a cleaning kit and get back to shooting.
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Old 06-01-2016, 01:47 PM
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Have used a loading block for years, all prepped brass, cleaned,sized,primed brass gets put in the loading block, cycled under my powder measure, EACH case gets a visual check with a flashlight. Every 10th one the charge is weighed on my scale. Only then do I reach for the bullets and seat them. I always used powders that near fill the case, no chance of a double charge. Might not be the fastest reloader in the world, but as noted above it's not a "hurry up task".
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Old 06-01-2016, 03:22 PM
dagamore dagamore is offline
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For pistol I run a Dillon Square Deal, and at least with the powders I run in it, Blue Dot, Green Dot, Longshot, Tightgroup, 4227 and H110, it meters very consistantly. I check about about every 10 rounds, and it is almost always for pistol loads spot on. For example over last weekend I loaded 1000 rounds of 41 Rem Mag, I set the dispenser to 19.5grns of 4227, every round I checked was on the low side of 19.485 and on the high side of 19.510. That is more than accurate enough for me.

Not counting primer issues (had a few Winchester Small Pistol that failed to do anything after a hammer strike) I have yet to have a squib. While I use a progressive I still look in every case to make sure it has powder, and when loading you know where it should be for a load.

Like others have said, reloading is about quality not speed.
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Old 06-01-2016, 04:32 PM
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I RO'ed many matches at the local club and have witnessed several squibs over the years. Squibs were detected in revolvers by blocking the cylinder from turning and in semi-autos by a noticeable lack of noise and failure of the slide to function.

I have also had the experience of ROing when a double charge went off and the result was very attention getting. Two pieces of the cylinder came off each side of the back strap and the back strap was significantly warped.

I use "SilentFlyer"'s method even though I use a turret press. First I decap/size, hand seat primers, and load the powder for 50 to 100 cases at a time, and they are all placed in loading blocks. Each powder charge is weighed when charging the cases. Next, before seating the bullets, I inspect all charged cases with a flashlight to check for empties and double charges. Then, and only then, I seat the bullets and crimp the cartridges.
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Old 06-01-2016, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipmeister View Post
I don't load for quantity and never have. I load for consistency and grouping, always.
Both are possible. Just look at pistol. If I have a load that delivers 800 fps at 4 grains, and 900 fps at 4.5 grains, then a charge that's 4.1 is only going to bump up to 820. That's not enough to get worried about.

In fact, velocity in general is not something to get worried about really. The most accurate ammunition rarely is the lowest-SD load. And besides, worrying about a .1-grain variation in charge weights would require you to believe that each 4.0-grain (or whatever) charge delivered exactly the same amount of energy as the next 4.0 grains. Which it almost certainly doesn't.

Anyways. If you're interested in gilt-edged accuracy with autopistol ammo, take a look at what bullseye guys do. They don't obsess over charge weights.

In fact, they start by sorting their bullets visually and then by weight (why bother using two bullets weighing exactly 185 grains, when one has a giant casting seam and the other has an uneven base?), and usually wind up throwing 50-60% of their bullets into the "practice/plinking" bucket. Then they move on to obsessing over OAL and crimp, then primer seating depth. And then cases (if they care, some simply use mixed trimmed brass).

And then, they maybe start obsessing over precise charge weights.

---

I load on an LCT, with on-the-press priming and charging. I can generally load 50 in 20 minutes, weighing the first ten and every 5th load after that (which is an awful lot). And that's going from an empty powder hopper and primer tray, with clean used cases and spent primers, to 50 completed cartridges.

I've hit 150 rounds in 45 minutes, but my shoulder told me all about it the next day. And I'm not an old creaky guy.
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