I have just started to put together what I need to reload 10mm ammo, which is new to me vs what I have reloaded for many, many years, .45acp, .45 Colt, .454 Casull and .44 Mag & Spl.

What powder do you 10mm reloaders prefer, especially for full power loads? I am not asking for any receipies, just your preferred powder, for Mid-Range/Plinking Loads and Full Power Loads.

If anyone wants to mention their Pet Loads, it will be appreciated.

There is no "best" for any caliber. But some good powders IMHO are Power Pistol. HS 6. Longshot, CFE pistol, Unique or other brands along the same burn rates. Not to fast, not to slow

https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn%20R...02015-2016.pdf

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Still Running Against the Wind

I happen to like Power Pistol for 10mm. (Be advised, it "barks" loudly.)

Power Pistol is my go to powder for 10mm. Meters great, economical, can run mild to wild.

I shoot 180s and 200s and have had good results with BE-86 for medium-power SD loads and Longshot and AA-9 across the board. LS and AA-9 are good for "real" 10mm loads.

Both BE-86 and AA-9 are flash suppressed.

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an actual conservative

I like Blue Dot. In my Delta, 10 grains with a 180 grain HAP yields 1,220 fps, and 9 grains with a 180 grain lead flat point yields 1,135. The R-P 180 FMJ runs 1,150 for reference.

The R-P 180s look (flash) and feel like a PP load. Commercial PP is known as BE-84. I should pull one apart and weigh the charge.

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an actual conservative

All good powders but unless you just want 40 vel, you need to feed the 10mm slower powders like AA#7, AA#9, Longshot, BlueDot, maybe BE86, but I haven't worked up 10mm loads with it yet. My fav for 200gr-220gr bullets is AA#9. Best accuracy with good vel & no smiley faced brass in my stock G20 bbl. I don't even bother with lighter bullets anymore. For me, the 10mm was designed for & runs best with 200gr @ 1200fps. Though I have wicked good 165gr RGS @ 1300fps load if I ever decided to carry the 10mm for SD.
Some love 800X but I just haven't gotten the accuracy out of it I desire. A#7 & 9 do far better. BlueDot can be very good as well, but the AA powders meter so much better.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

But are then saying you get faster velocity from slower powders?? Can that be?Also how is that recoil

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Still Running Against the Wind

I load 12.6 gr of AA-9 under a 200 gr XTP for 1200fps out of my 5" Rock Island 1911.

Recoil is manageable; no worse than .40 out of a plastic gun. I can't complain about it. I'm also using a 26# spring to save the brass from getting chewed up.

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an actual conservative

VihtaVuori 3N38 ... darn sweet in 357 magnum as well!

The best powders for full power loads with 180 and 200gr;

800-X
Longshot
3N38
Blue Dot
AA #9

Power Pistol
AA #7

Power Pistol and AA#7 will get you about 90% of what the other powders can provide, but I've found them to be very accurate.

Which ever ones you can find you'll be happy with. Your gun will probably have preferences.

Never mind it was for Fred

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Still Running Against the Wind

I don't load 10mm, and my only experience is firing a friend's. However, were I to reload the 10mm, I'd consider AA5 and maybe AA7 first. Unique would also be a likely possibility.

Can't go wrong with Power Pistol or Longshot with 165gr. JHPs. They're also fine with 180gr., along with Bluedot. Surprisingly I got some very good accuracy with 13.0gr/2400 & 180gr Nosler JHP, in my 1076.

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Waiting for the break of day

Lot's of very good information in this thread. I really appreciate all the input and opinions.

I'll be loading 180gn bullets and I am thinking of buying one pound each of #7 and 800X to try out and see what I come up with. from what I have read, I get the impression that #9 is better for heavier 200gn and up bullets.

Seems I have read this somewhere else.

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Still Running Against the Wind

For serious hunting loads I use Blue Dot and AA#9.

What a difference a forum makes. Here the most suggested powder is Power Pistol, elsewhere it was AA#7.

I'm in the AA#7 camp since my real favorite HS-7/W571 is no longer available.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

You hit the nail on the head brother!

After much consideration, and I have changed my thinking several times now, but now I am locked in! I will be picking up one pound of each, Power Pistol and AA#7. That way I can test both powders and see what works best for us.

I truly appreciate all the input received on both forums.

But on the other forum the title of thread was:

"What Powder for Full Power 10mm Loads"

Kinda like what is the best gun or car to buy.

Per Alliant, #9 is mo better than #7

Any reloading manual will give you data to go forth and experiment. Also depends on what bullet and weight.

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Still Running Against the Wind

My favorite for the 10mm is Longshot. Use the formulas in the Hodgdon manual. My S&W 610 (6 1/2") loves a near max load of Longshot with 180 gn. Montana Gold flat-points or XTPs. Cronos right at 1350 FPS out of the 6 1/2" barrel and is very accurate. This was my best bowling pin combo. Pins did a double back flip off the table.

Well I bought a 10mm to shoot, well 10mm loads. If I wanted 40, why bother with the bigger gun? I don't shoot 38sp out of my 357mags either. Yes, slower powder will get you higher vel with less pressures, but we all know that.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

In this review, "Kimber 10mm Model 1911" - Handloader #253, & handload data, AA#9 had the highest velocity for any 180gr JHP (Speer 180gr GD) bullet. Their charge of 15.0grs though, is higher than what's listed in Accurate's reloading guide (13.5gr).

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Waiting for the break of day

But how did the "Kimber" handle all that power

She can't take anymore Capt!

Ask 10 handloaders the best powder for something and get 13.5 answers.

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Still Running Against the Wind

This might help: Real Guns - Dan Wesson's Commander Classic Bobtail II

Without looking, I'd probably go with either VV N-105 or Longshot. Power Pistol and Blue Dot ought to be good.

BTW, VV N105 narrows any perceived gap between the 10MM & .40 S&W.

When it's available in CA, I will buy a Delta Elite. I think that it'd be the perfect trail gun. I'd love to won a Model 57, but I've yet to carry any handgun that's as easy as a 1911A1-stlye handgun.

Again, if you only want 40 vel, aa#5 & unique are just too fast. AA#7 is pretty good, but still a bit fast for best vel.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Oh Well! I stopped at five different local area B&M gun shops yesterday and could not come up with even one pound of either Power Pistol or AA#9.

I am not too upset about the Power Pistol, as I have several other powders in my stash that will work well, from what I have read for med-range plinking loads. I really wanted the #9 for full power loads.

Has anyone ever used 296 or 2400 in 10mm for full power loads? I have a lot of both in my stash that I use for .44 Mag & .454 Casull.

BTW, pricing at the B&Ms has really gone crazy!

I don't know anyone who uses either but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Lyman doesn't have data for either. Hodgkin doesn't list data for W296/H100 either. Alliance has data for 2400 with only one bullet and only a specific bullet in that weight, the 180gr Speer GDHP bullet.

Usually when there is little to no data for a powder/cartridge combination there is a very good reason.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I use a starting charge of Unique for an easy shooting accurate load.

You could try compressed loads of 2400, but I doubt you get the vel you want. It is about the same burn rate as AA#9, but bulkier so limits how much you can cram in the smaller 10mm case. No AA#9, find some Longshot or BlueDot.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

My biggest complaint working up loads for my 10's is just about all the bullets are designed for 40 S&W velocities and don't hold together well when pushed to 10mm speeds.

I've only worked up loads for 180, 200 & 220 gr bullets but I'll pass on my findings.

180 grain bullets: (Xtreme HP, Hdy XTP, Gold Dot)
Here, Blue Dot is the hands down accuracy king. I've read on many forums where 10.4-10.6 is somebody's "pet load" so I worked it up and discovered...yes, it's true. In my case, I've settled on 10.4 gr. It's not exactly a "full power" 10mm load as it barely cracks 1200 f.p.s. in my Glock 40 or my RIA 6" Match Pro and only does 1165 in my 5" RIA but this load groups 2.5" (or better) at 50 yards. I shoot more Xtreme HP's + BD than the rest combined.
My "do all" deer/defense/woods load is the Gold Dot loaded with 9.0 gr of Longshot for 1300+ f.p.s. Longshot gives horrible accuracy with every other bullet I tested but still manages around 4" groups at 50 yards with the Gold Dots.
Honorable mentions go to Accurate #7 & #9 (Mag primers), Power Pistol and BE-86.

200 grain bullets: (Hornady XTP, Xtreme FMJ)
Here, Accurate #9 is my favorite. I won't divulge my load as it was worked up in the 90's and the data back then was a bit warmer than Accurates current 12.5 gr max load. Chronos 1200+ f.p.s. and groups 3"-4" at 50 yards in my 10's. Again, I recommend CCI 350 magnum primers.
Honorable mention to Longshot and Accurate #7. They're not quite as fast or as accurate but you use considerably less of it.

220 grain Xtreme FMJ
Here I was in uncharted teritoritry but using the factory ammo pull downs from another fourm, I found data for Longshot. Again, I won't divulge my data as I have never seen printed, tested data for this bullet. So far, I've worked up to 1050 f.p.s. with no signs of excessive pressure as I'm a full grain under what the ammo compainy swears is within SAAMI pressure limits. Eventuly, I will also be testing Accurate #7 with this bullet.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

Huh?

Makes no sense. A bullet, say an XTP or Barnes, Speer falls apart going a 100 or even 200 or so fps faster ?? How many XTP bullets have been fired from rifles in other calibers at even faster velocity?

How do all the upper end ammo makers do it then?

10mm Ballistics Chart | Ballistics 101

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Still Running Against the Wind

My research shows that A9, A7, HS-6, and Universal all are very-low-flash powders, while Longshot, 800-X, and A5 are high-flash powders.

Muzzleflash by Jeffrey Behr | Photobucket

After experimenting with the Big10 this spring and summer, I find HS-6 to be excellent all-around for bullet weights thru 165 or maybe 180, and A9 and VihtaVouri's N105 to be excellent for high-power 180s and heavier. I achieved my highest velocities with 180s with N105, but I've NOT tested it for muzzle flash.

I highly recommend 10mm-firearms.com - Index as dedicated 10mm forum.

13.0gr is a full power load.

As fredj338 said, AA#9 is a little less bulky than 2400. 13.5gr/2400 would have the same volume as (the previously mentioned) 15.0gr/AA#9.

.

The older Alliant reloading guides (ie: 2000 & 2003) list (5) different bullet weights with 2400.

.

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Waiting for the break of day

If you can't find any AA#7 give Longshot a try. It's my second choice for the 10mm.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I'll break it down for you and try to make some sense of it for you. Call it Ballistics 102 or What happens to bullets when they hit something. aka Terminal Ballistics.

Expanding bullets are designed from the manufacture to work within a certain velocity window. With some rifle bullets, that working velocity window is over 1000 f.p.s. In most handgun bullets, that window is usually around 500 f.p.s. (some less some more)
If your impact velocity is below that minimum, the bullet fails to expand and acts more like a solid or FMJ. Think of using .429 bullets designed for the 44 magnum in a snub nose 44 special. Your muzzle velocity is all ready 100 f.p.s. or more below the working velocity of what the bullet was designed for. You end up with little to no expansion and over penetration.

Go above that limit, and bullets will rapidly expand and even fragment or tumble, limiting penetration.

Thankfully in the case of .429 bullets, their are at least a few bullets available that are designed for the lower 44 special velocities.
However, in the case of .400 diameter bullets, since the 40 S&W is vastly more popular than the more powerful 10mm, just about all the bullets made are designed for the lower velocity 40. The last commercially available true 10mm bullet is the Winchester 175 gr Silvertip. The same bullet that is loaded in the factory ammo at 1290 f.p.s. Almost never available and extremely expensive when you do find it. Two bullets available in factory ammo only, are the Federal trophy Bonded and the Sig V Crown 180 gr made by Sierra. Sadly the only time these bullets are available as components is when someone does a pull down.

The only 40 bullets that do work, (barely IMO) most of the time, at 10mm velocities are the Hornady 200 gr XTP, the Speer Gold Dot 180 gr. I've heard the Nosler 200 gr and the Speer 165 gr Gold Dot also work but I've never tested them.
Several of us routinely e-mail bullet companies asking them to release a true 10mm bullet but they very politely decline because they don't want the negative feedback from someone complaining they won't expand when fired out of his 40 S&W.

So, how do the boutique ammo makers do it?
Simple, they lie...or omit certain truths.

If you don't wish to spend the time and money testing yourself, do a search on you tube for 10mm gel tests. Here's a link to some 10mm only tests by one of them. 10mm gel tests - 10mm-firearms.com

Hope this helps.

Jeff

I well aware of bullet expansion or performance when striking an object but that is not what you said.
You said:

"My biggest complaint working up loads for my 10's is just about all the bullets are designed for 40 S&W velocities and don't hold together well when pushed to 10mm speeds."

Which says they do not hold together at SPEED, not at impact.

Maybe with hunting animals the nuances may matter but for SD ammo will the bad guy know it is a Hornady or Gold Dot?


It is all how many Angels can dance on a head of a pin.

Carry on with your ballistic testing on gel and water bottles or whatever floats you boat.

Winchester, Rem, Hornady, Federal all not boutique makers.

Sure listed FPS obtained is not usally even close due to 10" test barrels and such

All the ammo makers lie.
You tube is the source of all facts.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Touche mister grammar police, Touche.

I would say more but I prefer to not be a Jackass on the forum.

Jeff

Can only respond to what you actually wrote! Has nothing to do with Grammar Police.

Say what you want,, mean what you say, write what you mean, don't gig me for it.

You imply that the 10mm is some magic cartridge. It's not.

How about 327 Fed Mag, 357 Sig, 460 SW etc etc?

Bullet "failure" occurs in all calibers

It seems that the 10mm club is in search of the Holy Grail of perfect "petal" expansion or no jacket separation.
Well that happens in other calibers also,


The minutia of perfect form and pushing the "envelope" for max or above make loads.

So a 180 gr bullet going lets say over 1000 fps hits with a energy of over 400 ft lbs. So does it matter what perfect shape the bullet is? But hey, if you are into all that, go for it.

How many millions of animals including humans have been killed with LEAD Hard Cast or plain Jane FMJ bullets.???

Is, tnoutdoors9 one of your 100mm club members? He has some well done gel tests on YouTube. Neat, clean and no BS
More than one round fired into the gel would be more conclusive. Even the bullets that fell apart did some good penetration and nasty wound cavities.

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: 10mm Results

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Still Running Against the Wind

I'm toward the 'novice-beginner' in reloading for the 10mm.

Many of the powders favored above don't exist in my area. I've almost never seen "AA-#anything"; Blue Dot is rare; VV is over $40/# and worse yet, with a half-dozen recipes so far, I'm finding 180g does.not.group.well for me compared to the 165 FMJ, lead OR poly-coated.

Granted, it may be 'my flinch' etc. I'm working to find a great bowling pin load for 2 pistols: 610 shorty (3-9/16") and Sig 220-10. I did find a nice sub 1" load for 165poly coated which will explore & report later.

With a load of gun-show new manufactured 180FMJ flat point, I just do not get 'groups' that fit inside pin-width circle at 50';

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Dum vivimus Vivamas

Supposedly Longshot is the replacement for HS7. I still have a 1# of HS7, should break it out & do a direct comparison. I like aa#7 a lot for gen purp 10mm, but if you want max vel, Aa#9 wins.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

If you're struggling with 180gn accuracy, try some 800X and Longshot.

Hey
Just a side-note on powder availability.. Powders are available on-line, and there has been more available recently.
Yes, you have to bite the bullet and pay to play, but it's out there if you really want it. I've had to do this a number of times.

Check out sites like ammoseek.com., which will tell you who has it and how much shipping is.

We can't see what will happen in November, but there's a chance that afterwards, not much will be available anywhere...

I buy most of my powder on line, it's just flat cheaper than local, even with HM. Every location is diff, but order enough, 10 units, 1# of powder or 1k primers, the hm is only $2.75 per unit. Throw in primers to round out your order. If ordering just a few #s. No sales tax pays any shipping. Plus, i dont have to drive anywhere to get my components.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

The shops in my area just jack up the price to where it's the same as online w/hazmat + shipping, especially hard to find powder.

Exactly. Most of the shops here have primers @ $40/k, powder at $30/#, rarely do they sell 8#. One shop is very fair, $30 for all primers & they sell 4# & 8# powder jugs. It is a solid 30min drive each way & I still pay 8% st. Even if I bought just the 8# jug of WST recently bought from PV, the total cost was about $3 cheaper online. An 8% st is a lot to make up when ordering say $300 worth, $24. That is almost the HM or a bit more than half the $15 s&h. IF you have a store that is fair to the customer, by all means support them. Some around here I won't buy anything from, they gouge the snot out of the reloader.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

The above post points out, that the B&M shops are greedy gougers (I Agree), and as a result of the prices I am personally seeing in my area B&Ms, I decided to buy online again. I ordered more than I needed, but hey, who knows what will happen again after November. I ordered 4 lbs of Longshot and 4 lbs of 700X and a few thousand primers. I have many lbs of Unique, TiteGroup, 2400 and others, that I should be fine for a very long time.

Well 200fps can make a big diff in a jhp or lhp at handgun vel. I've run 124gr Sierra jhc @ 1200fps & they expand nicely. Run them at 1350fps, they frag. Many of the ammo manuf tweak the design of their jhp to meet the extra vel needs.
One reason i like 200gr jhp in the 10mm, they are designed for higher vel impact. The 200gr xtp & Nosler do quite well at 1200fps+.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

The best way to take advantage of bulk buying is go in with 2-3 other guys. One HM fee split among 25-26 units gets it down to about $1 each. Again, no st in most states, you save auite a bit.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO