Hi All,
I have the Speer reloading manual.. I read that it calls for CCI primers.. Large for this load and small for that load... Now my question is; Can I substitute lets say Winchester or Remington etc for the load?? As long as it's a Large if the load calls for it and small if it calls for small... Are primers just primers ??

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IamOneGunAwayFromHappy

In short,yes

What's a PAASST reloading guru?

There is tons of info online about interchanging primers. The only concern I would have is rifle loads near max charges. There might be a small concern when interchanging regular and magnum primers, but that is mainly due to some slow burning powders needing magnum primers to ensure ignition

The reloading manuals list what they used. There might be some rhyme or reason behind it, but most likely it's because both Speer and CCI are owned by ATK.

Thank you Guys, I thought so.. Look'en for sales...

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IamOneGunAwayFromHappy

Oh well, late to the party again. Nothing left to do here lol. I like sales too!

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SWCA #3437

Generally, primer ignition performance (for same types and sizes of primers of different brands) is pretty much identical. There are some special performance primers (Magnum, bench rest, Mil Spec, etc.) that are sometimes called for. Sometimes reloading manuals simply state what primers were used for a particular reloading recipe. Occasionally a manual will make a specific primer brand recommendation. One thing which shouldn't be done is to use Large or Small Pistol for rifle loads. They will fit, but the primer cup is thinner and generally less able to withstand rifle-magnitude chamber pressures. Some very high pressure pistol loads (like the 9x23mm Winchester) should always use small rifle primers. In fact, small rifle primers will usually work perfectly OK in pistol cases.

Please take a look at Krag Collectors Association Forum - Final Report - Developing match load for my rifle. In it I describe a lengthy project to develop a match load for my 1898 Krag rifle. I wanted the load to mimic as best possible the original service load of a 220 grain bullet at about 2000fps. In the referenced write up I discuss primers at length. There is indeed a difference in primers. They are by no means the same other than brand name. Some were developed for a specific purpose, such as the Federal 215 developed specifically for igniting large quantities of slow burning powder found in Weatherby cartridges. Others have been developed to deliver just enough flame to reliably ignite the powder but no more. Many of the Bench Rest primers are designed to perform in this fashion. As to reloading manual primer recommendations, they mean little. I called the Sierra Tech Line to see why they recommended Remington for the 30-40 Krag. Their answer was simply that it was what they had on hand. They leave further experimentation to the reloader. However, upon further query they told me that there are some clear signs you have the wrong primer that you should be on the lookout for. One is not getting reliable ignition. Not misfires per se, but hang fires. Another hint of a wrong primer choice is vertical stringing and rather large extreme spreads in velocity. The latter is a clear sign of using (in their words) "too much primer" such as a magnum primer when a standard is more appropriate. In my initial experiments vertical stringing was a consistent problem, until I decided to try the Remington 9 1/2 large rifle primer (not magnum) rather than the Winchester or CCI LR Magnum primer as recommended by several other members of the Krag forum. My final load consistently shoots at or below one MOA at 200 yards with service sights. A little research on line will bring up several articles (such as http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...size-and-more/) dedicated to primers and how they compare.

Keith

I often use regular Small Rifle primers in pistol loads, saves on having to stock both but if you have a light spring trigger it may not set them off and you may have to use SP instead. However you shouldn't mix LP & LR primers.. although they are the same diameter they are different heights and will either stick out from the case (LR in pistol... dangerous) or will be sunken too far into the pocket (LP in a rifle case) and may not ignite. The thickness of the metal cup is also different between them, so take that into consideration before selecting which to use.

As I have previously stated, for many years I have used only SR primers for all my .38/.357 and .38 Super/9x23mm (in the M1911) loads. I normally use SP for other calibers such as .32 ACP, .380 ACP, and 9mm. No reason SR wouldn't work for those also, but I believe some of the smaller autopistols may have less firing pin impact energy than revolvers, possibly leading to misfires. Regarding Magnum primers, I believe that their main advantage is for use with slower-burning propellants which are more difficult to ignite, not necessarily restricted to cartridges with "Magnum" in their names. I use them only for .270 Winchester or .30-'06 when using 4831 powder.

Wow, ask a question and you get a volume of answers which all are right on. Gota love this forum.

Yep, I too have used quite a few small rifle primers in my .38 and 357 reloads. I had a lot of them and small pistol primers were hard to find. In all my revolvers I had no failures to fire. Large primers are a different story; large rifle primers are .008" taller than large pistol primers. I've not done the reverse though, pistol primers in rifles...

Yea, So nice to have knowledgeable people around..

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IamOneGunAwayFromHappy

Basically Yes , just be sure to use small pistol / small rifle or large pistol / large rifle where called for . Standard primers where called for and Magnum primers where called for.
Some people say they substitute magnum for standard , but I only use magnum when the data calls for it. Magnum primers can be substituted if certain guidelines are taken .

Look carefully at what is on the package, last time I bought primers they were AR primers for 223 and 308 and a whole bunch of makers I had never seen before, some packages were not even printed in English ...finding what I needed got a bit confusing. Not like the old past days.
Gary

"Look carefully at what is on the package, last time I bought primers they were AR primers for 223 and 308 and a whole bunch of makers I had never seen before, some packages were not even printed in English"

Not sure what it would be with non-English labels. CCI makes Mil Spec primers intended for use specifically in 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO cartridges. The idea is that some primers can slam-fire in M16 and M14 rifles, and those primers are less impact sensitive than standard primers and won't slamfire. There's a long story about that I won't go into now. Google it if you need more information.

My understanding is that the CCI-450 Magnum primer and the 41 Military primer are essentially the same... same mixture, same cup thickness, slightly different anvil - so I use 450's instead of paying $5-$10 more...

yeah, that's what us paasst gurus are around for....