This is my first attempt. I have 500 X-Tream 158-SWC 38 cal and I can not find a load. I am using W231. Do I treat these the same as LSWC and use that data?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

From the X Treme website


Bullet/Load Info
Load Info

Our Copper Plated Bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp
Any velocities over 1200 FPS we recommend either our Heavy Plate Concave Base or Hollow Point products for superior accuracy. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp
All of our Hard Cast Lead Bullets are approximately 18 on Brinell, our Cowboy lead bullets are approximately 15 on Brinell.

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

I have Berry's bullets and their website says it's safe to use data for an equivalent lead bullet. And, I assume you're loading this in .357 cases? That said, if it were me, I would back off at least a half grain, to start, from any lead bullet data. Your situation is complicated by using a fast-burning powder - which (experts say - not me!) reaches peak pressure very quickly.

With one day until the election - and since you have 500 to load - if I were you I would sashay down to the store and pick up a pound of something at least as slow burning as Power Pistol. It's still available here locally for around $25 a pound.

As Xtreme's info indicates, the thickness of copper plating varies considerably from one manufacturer to the next and one specific bullet type to the next. On some, it's no more than a thin, mostly-cosmetic wash; on others, it approaches being a real jacket. If the manufacturer provides no clue, or you have no clue whose it is, best to start off on the safe side and stick with jacketed bullet loads, which tend to have lower max charges than lead, and work up carefully if so inclined.

__________________
Pisgah

I've loaded over 6000 Plated 158gr .38 at Power Factor 120 for IDPA and ICORE this year.
4.3gr W231.


In general, for plated, avoid lightest lead loads (stuck bullets) and hottest lead and jacketed loads (plated bullets have a practical speed limit.)
A chronograph is used to get the Power Factor you want (or need for competition).

__________________
Science plus Art

Forgot to add this:

As your 38/357 dies should be roll crimp and not taper crimp, you can just use a LIGHT roll crimp rather than a taper crimp. Just enough to crimp and not cut through the copper plating.

Also. HP 38 is just fine and dandy for 38 special (that's what it was designed for) it also works fine for light 357 mag loads.

It is an excellent powder for most any handgun caliber (no it's not a full house magnum powder)

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

I have used a fair amount of Xtreme plated in .38 and .357. I've been using their 158 grain TCs and HPs. I get better results using lead data and a medium speed powder like Universal vs HP38/Win231.

If you look at the data for 231, you will see a gap between lead data, and jacketed. With Universal, they overlap. I settled on a load right in the middle of the lead data. Much better accuracy for me, than HP38 using up to max lead data. I ditched HP38 and tried Universal before venturing past the max lead data, and into jacketed data.

Will the LEE bullet seating die apply a roll crimp? Thanks for all the help. This is my 1st attempt


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Lee normally supplies roll crimp with .38/.357 dies.
The correct way to roll crimp plated without a cannelure is to only roll the crimp in until it touches the bullet. If you dig it in and distort the bullet, you've gone too far.


By the way, the "gap" mentioned in the HP38 data above is merely the +P range, which most people don't use for plated bullets. However, I had to use a mild +P (4.5gr) under 158gr to make PF 125 for IDPA until IDPA changed the rules and dropped to PF 105 for revolver. I had zero problems with the 4.5gr load for over 10 years and many thousands of rounds.
Actually, w231 under 158gr plated is a very easy load, practically anything from 3.9 to 4.5 works fine.

__________________
Science plus Art

I recently started reloading 38 spl because that's what I shoot the most of. I used Hodgdeon Clays 2.5 grain powder. 125gr Ranier copper plated flat nose bullets and my reclaimed brass. Rainier says not to crimp their plated bullets so I didn't. I had two squibs and a few that bullets barely traveled 30'.
I was told by an GS that the powder was to slow burn and quit using it. I called Hodgdon and they said that GS didn't know squat because Clays is like rated 5th on the high burn scales. The Hodgdon rep asked what bullets I was using and which powder and had I crimped the bullets. I had not crimped the bullets. He said he believed my problem stemmed from not crimping and said to try that. He said not being crimped allowed to much pressure to be lost as the bullet left the case to quickly. He also said using such a light load was also a possible problem.
I then used my Lee crimping die and crimped the remaining hundreds of rounds I had left. When I shot these I noticed a huge improvement in accuracy and had no bad rounds from the remaining several hundred rounds.
I had about a hundred bullets left so I loaded these rounds with 3.5gr of Clays and crimped them also. These were more accurate, had a little bit more recoil but still was no problem shooting the hundred without any discomfort from an LCR 357.
Now I am out of bullets and contemplating using lead semi wad cutters to keep the costs down. After reloading 1000 rounds of 38spl I still have about half a bottle of the Clays left. I am thinking about buying more clays when I buy more bullets. I would appreciate recommendations of lower cost easy to use bullets for 38spl.
BTW the Clays is actually a fairly good clean burning powder compared to other factory 38spl reloads I have shot.

This is one reason why I don't recommend plated bullets to new reloaders. Reloading data isn't easily found for their bullets and they just ask a forum. The other reason is crimping; so many "I have some Glory Be plated bullets but they don't have a crimp line, what do I do?" questions seen at least weekly on forums...

I've been reloading quite a while and like many, many experienced reloaders plated bullets are just another bullet and load data is easy to find. I have loaded mebbe 1,200 plated bullets and used lead bullet data, no big deal (for an experienced reloader). I normally tell a new reloader to find a tried and true load (bullet, powder, primer) in their manual before they buy components. Way too many new reloaders buy components and don't know what to do with them...

But I'm just an old reloading phart (started in 1969 with a Lee Loader)...

The gap I mentioned is between max lead and start jacketed. It s a small gap in .38 spcl. In .357 magnum it is well over a full grain.

3.9 is beyond max lead in .38 and 4.5 is squarely in +P jacketed. At least going by Hogdgon's data.

You are looking at the online data. I am looking at Hodgdon Data Manual No 27. For reasons unknown, half the data is missing from the current online postings.


Pg 76 in the Hodgdon paper manual, 4.7gr for 158gr LSWC is only 17,100PSI
That takes it above the standard SAAMI pressure by only 100PSI; +P limit is 20,000.
There aren't ANY +P lead loads in the HP38, 158gr online data...there they are in the Data Manual #27....go figure??!


And, yes, for over a decade, IDPA required +P to meet their revolver power factor, but finally dropped to so commercial standard pressure ammo would pass.

__________________
Science plus Art

Lots of the older data, especially in .38spcl is much higher than current data. I'm a conservative loader and go with the newest data readily available. I can usually get the accuracy, or even muzzle velocity I need by using a different powder. I would rather change powders than push the envelope.

I started loading Extreme plated bullets last year after decades of shooting cast lead. Admittedly, it's hard to go back now.

After some extensive trial and error, I have settled on 4.3Gr of W231/Hp38 under their 158gr SWC at an OAL of 1.450" as the sweet spot in range performance. Shoots well in any of the 4 revolvers I've tried it in (including a model 64 with fixed sights.)

BTW, I'll also confirm that these plated bullets are not happy when overly crimped.
Tight groups!

__________________
Dave

I have loaded several thousands of Raniner plated bullets is several calibers, I use Lee equipment so I use the Lee temper crimp I use a soft crimp, just the smallest indent in to plating. As I am not in my man cave I don't have my reload data, but I have used AA#5, and had very good results.

__________________
Carpriver.

I'm not a super experienced reloader, but I've loaded and shot several hundred rounds of the Xtreme plated 158gr RNFP bullets in 357 and 38.

I've loaded them to middle of the range jacketed specs & then worked up from there. I always use a medium roll crimp and have seen no signs of any cracking or damage to the plating - even on bullets that I have pulled for one reason or another.

In fact I bought 1000 of them that were ALL pulled bullets from a semi-local company that breaks down ammo and resells the components. They all had a crimp line from having had a roll crimp, and none of them were cracked.

I really can't see how you'd crack the plating unless you put a SUPER HEAVY roll crimp on them. Even then I think it would be hit & miss.

I just went through a long problem solving process with plated bullets and .45 ACP. This despite years of experience with 9mm. I've learned the following:

1. The suggestion to use mid-range lead bullet data as a starting point is virtually universal with plated bullet makers. Good suggestion.

2. What I found with .45 ACP was that the Berry plated bullet wasn't gripped as tightly* by the case as lead bullets of the same type. After quite a bit of experimenting, I found that I had to seat the bullet at the same time as the taper crimp was applied to avoid bullet set back. Pulled seated bullets show no sign of the plating being damaged, rather the core material distorted.
* More correctly, the bullet doesn't have the same co-efficient of friction as lead and needs to be held more tightly to compensate.

3. Crimping bullets without crimping grooves/cannelures: back in 2000 I pulled a bunch of .222 bullets loaded by a major manufacturer. Despite a lack of cannelure, the bullets were crimped had enough for the crimp to be visible to the unaided eye. This distortion gets ironed out in the barrel and they grouped into one ragged hole.

I'll also note that even the bench rest shooters crimp their loads (lightly) because it makes the bullet pull more uniform. They don't put crimping grooves/cannelures in bench rest bullets.

4. As someone else noted, the thickness of plating by various makers varies. Your results might be different than mine.

Well I loaded the X-Tream 158 copper SWC for 38 special with 4.1 gr of Win 231 with an OAL of 1.445. I hope it works


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk