I used up all my small primers so I went to the LGS to buy a couple thousand more. LGS had quite a few 1000 round boxes but the limit was 3 boxes of 100. He said they can't get anymore small pistol primers right now so they have the limit.
I didn't buy any and will have to go hunting now for 1500 primers for my 1500 bullets waiting to be used up.

If i only had 1500 primers i would be panicing. Things should settle down now that the Hilldabeast has been slane. Still, be vigiliant, keep your component supplies up.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Still stockpiling in California. Our state critters out here make the beast look like Ted Nugent.

Powder and primers can be shipped in the same container.

I did read about a new limit a couple years ago on the quantity of powder that is allowed to be shipped in 1 truck. Supposedly that was one of reasons for the shortages - product couldn't be shipped in large quantities.

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Common sense isn't so common.

I don't know about your particular powder, but Bass Pro in Port St. Lucie, FL, and Lotus Gunworks n Jensen Beach have shelves full of reloading gear and supplies.

Amen brother. I see you ate down in SD, I was out at pala shooting idpa yesterday.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Which is what I keep saying. The 50# limit may result in slower delivery, but has no affect on availability. That is just people waking up to the new world order. You have to keep a min 2 year min reserve, whatever that is to you. For some of us, that is well over 10k primers & 8# of powder.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I'm not stopping any time soon.

Initially I started out of an interest in saving money, but I pretty quickly realized that for common calibers in plentiful supply the savings isn't that dramatic.

With that said, I don't want to give up the control that it gives me over the entire process.

Sure, I can buy 38 special anywhere, but I can't get wadcutters just anywhere and good ones ARE expensive. 357 Magnum is easy to find, but I like being able to load everything from a little hotter than 38 special to "holy ****." I like that I can load bullets that are expensive to find commercially loaded, like 168gr Keith-type bullets.

The same is true of 44 Mag, except that it's actually fairly expensive. 45 Colt and 44 special are in that same category.

Two of my other favorite calibers are effectively what I consider reload-only calibers. 32-20 is expensive when you can find it, with the only thing I ever find being the crummy 115 Remington. I like shooting "real" 38 Super, and not expensive 9mm loaded in a bigger case.

I don't load much 327 Magnum, and the factory ammo out there is pretty good. With that said, there's not much variety.

I'll chime in a little bit here. As to primers and powder being shipped together, I just had some shipped this past week. They were in the same box cover, but in two different boxes in that box.

Back to reloading, I think it's still pretty popular. I reload A. To allow myself to shoot more. B. Not to have to rely on going to the store to get ammo.

That being said, I had a lot of the tools for loading given to me from my dad. So my start up cost was pretty minimal.

Reloading isn't dying going strong as ever. Casting bullets may take a dive as the evil lead dries up. After all the tree huggers and the government has shut the industry down. Just like the lumber, coal, and fishing industry. Young women and men are getting into reloading as well. They lean towards plated or jacketed bullets.

Powder and primers CAN be shipped together,

Most places have a max PACKAGE weight of 50 pounds, This means that the weight of the BOX is included.

This is from Graf and Sons as an example

Hazardous Materials

Powder, primers & liquid cleaning chemicals over 1 quart, will be charged a $30 hazardous material fee per package. Maximum gross weight per package is 50 lbs. We can mix brands in one package. Minimum order for powder is 4 lbs. Minimum primer order is 1000. On any backordered hazardous material, you are responsible for the $30 hazardous charge. No individual powder containers over 8 lbs. can be shipped. Hazardous materials cannot be shipped US Mail. Any hazardous materials (primers, ammo, fuse) shipped via air will be charged a $42.50 hazardous materials fee per package. These ORM-D classification items (powder and any type of aerosols, oils and solvents) cannot be shipped via air. Primed hulls, primed brass and ammo do not require a Hazardous Materials fee for ground shipping. Hazardous Materials require an adult signature for delivery. ID may be required at delivery for proof of age. In the event that the package is not delivered after 3 attempts or refused, the customer will be responsible for all associated shipping charges including Hazardous Materials fee.
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From Powder Valley

They are allowing 2 pounds for the BOX.

WE CAN COMBINE UP TO 48 LBS. OF POWDER AND PRIMERS UNDER ONE HAZMAT TO SAVE YOU MONEY. IF SENDING FUNDS IN ADVANCE, PLEASE CALL FOR ASSISTANCE IN CALCULATING YOUR AMOUNT.

From MidSouth


Gunpowder & Primers

All orders containing gunpowder, primers, or percussion caps will charged a $26.00 hazardous materials charge per shipping box with these items. If shipped by air, then primers, percussion caps, and loaded ammunition will be charged $36.00 per box. Gunpowder cannot be shipped by air. Powder and primers can be packed together on ground shipments for one hazardous charge provided the total weight of the order (including packaging) remains below 50 lbs.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I used to reload 12 ga for trap. I shot a lot of trap. When lead hit $2 a pound I stopped reloading 12 ga. I can remember about 10 years ago it was half that. The fact is you can buy factory ammo for clays at about the same price to reload. When you consider that powder isn't always available for the most part and the prices have also just about doubled on the stuff that is available occasionally, it's discouraging.

I was discussing this with a fellow shooter a few weeks ago. He said he had stopped reloading for his AR. Now he just buys 1000 rd lots when he can find it cheap. He gave me 1K of his range brass just to have it gone.

So yeah, I think we are seeing the cost getting to the point that reloading is approaching the cost of commercial ammo.

I get all my brass at the range now. That would be 9 mm, 45 acp and 5.56. Very few shooters there are picking up their brass anymore.

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That's just somebody talkin.

I have turned more people on to reloading in the past 5 years than I have in the previous 20 combined.

My kids both have custom built 257 Roberts rifles. We were in a Cabela's store, and my older son noticed they actually sold factory, pre loaded ammo for their rifles. About that time, he also noticed it was north of $40 per box.

Before that, I'm not sure either son realized you could get ammunition from anyplace other than our reloading bench.

I've been reloading for over 40 years. Dozens of different metallic rifle and pistol cartridges, and 4 shotgun gauges. Competition, target, hunting, self-defense loads. Things have definitely changed since I started, as many posters have noted.

Reloading isn't dying at all. However, the percentage of shooters who reload today is smaller than 40 years ago when I started shooting. Since so many people are taking up shooting currently, the absolute number of reloaders is still significant, although the percentage of total shooters might be smaller. And the nature of reloading has changed. Many posters have hit on the current trends.

COST - Reloading is not the bargain across the board like it used to be. The higher price of initial tooling and then increased marginal costs of components has narrowed or eliminated the economy of reloading as a motive in many cases. For example, if all you're shooting is 9mm and 12 gauge target loads, getting into reloading makes no economic sense... factory loads purchased in bulk on discount are often less expensive than even just the marginal cost of components to reload. The price of lead shot is outrageous, and while powder is still reasonable, primers have become expensive at all levels.

When you are comparing costs, apples to apples. Stating that 9mm is cheaper to reload, when using a home-cast lead bullet from scrap, is not a valid comparison to a jacketed bullet load, factory or reloaded.

In expensive factory calibres, the marginal costs are far more favorable to the economy of reloading. Examples are 28 gauge loads, .44 Special or Weatherby anything. Yet the start-up costs can be intimidating, especially if time and convenience are factors. Spending $1000 on reloading equipment is not unusual. Thats a lot of scratch for most people to lay out, and have no ammo yet.

How much shooting are you going to do to recoup that initial equipment cost? I guess about 500 rounds of Weatherby magnum (at which time you'll need a new barrel anyway). Or 3000 28 ga target shells - a season's worth for the avid skeet shooter. Or 5000 .44 Special/.45 Colt loads... about a year's total for the hardcore cowboy.

If you are already set up with the bulk of the initial tooling to reload for shotshell or metallic for an expensive factory calibre, the marginal costs of components to reload a "cheap" factory calibre like 12 gauge or 9mm target loads can make sense if you make substitutions... like using cast bullets instead of jacketed. But there are no free lunches for doing so.

TIME is significant these days, and everyone has less of it. Reloading is time consuming on any level - either high production bulk blasting ammo or more precise hunting/competition/self-defense loads. To be safe and effective it requires concentration and lack of distraction. Many more shooters have neither the time nor inclination for that. They want to shoot and move on. Nothing wrong with that, just a fact.

ENVIRONMENT. More people including shooters are aware of the hazards of lead and other toxic compounds. Reloading has it in spades - lead in primers, lead in bullets, lead residue in fired cases - and you are handling lots of them while reloading, dumping and cleaning cases, etc. Many don't want to deal with the potential exposure more than necessary. While proper reloading practices will minimize the hazards to non-actionable levels, not everyone has the ability or desire to implement them. Setting up a reloading bench in your apartment or condo may not work out so well, environmentally or in terms of physical space.

The confluence of the time and environmental factors, along with the changed demographics of shooters, are the primary reasons for the waning of bullet casting, as has been noted. There's barely enough time or physical space to reload, and now the prospective reloader is told to buy even more equipment, spend time scrounging up largely unavailable - to the great majority of the shooting demographic - scrap lead, then sit breathing over a pot of molten fuming toxic lead and hand pouring it into little mouds, then watching them cool, then taking each one and sizing it in press full of sticky bullet lube. Not intending to poke fun at those that enjoy it - and it has a measurable following - but pointing out that the appeal of that process to the majority of the modern generation of shooters is only fractionally above nil. And as a result, buying bullets, especially jacketed bullets, increases the COST factor.

QUALITY and SELECTION of factory ammunition is at an all-time high. When I started, to have the most accurate, or ballistically superior, or unique ammunition, hand loading was essential. That is much less the case anymore. The quality and variety of factory loads today for hunting and self-defense is tremendous. There is less NEED to reload for those reasons.

Related to this is the perception - propagated by self-promoters in the "training industry" who have outside financial interests in ammunition sales - that using hand loaded self-defense ammunition will get you in legal trouble in the event you need to use it. Nothing is further from the actual truth of matter, and these charlatans know it. But they will take an odd outlier of an incident and magnify and/or distort it to suit their agenda. The truth is that if you are faced with the unfortunate circumstance of having to use deadly force to defend yourself or others, your actions will be judged on the necessity of using deadly force at all... not not the size of the hammer you used. But the perception persists amongst people who are neither legal experts nor have experience in such matters, who repeat what they've read on the internet or heard from someone who is ignorant or deceptive. As a result, fewer reloaders load their own self-defense ammo. In some cases, I think they know the limitations of their reloading abilities...

Bottom line, through reloading, over the long haul and on the margins you can save some money, or shoot more for the same cost, or create somewhat more accurate or suitable or unique loads for your own purposes. However, the magnitude of those attributes have become increasingly smaller over the past decades.

What is largely left for reloading then is its fundamental basis within the shooting sports: as a means of becoming more immersed in the essential elements of arms and ammunition. There are few things more satisfying to those that reload, than competing - and possibly winning - in a match, or taking an animal while hunting, or staking your safety, while using your own ammunition. There is something intrinsically valuable in that.

As to the OP's question I do not think that reloading is dying. I as well as several of my friends Handload for numerous reasons. I can fine tune a 44 Magnum so that my wife and grandkids can shoot it with little recoil or make it where it hurts your hands and eight inches of flames shoot out the end. Handloading is kind of like a therapy for me and it is a fun hobby.

For the past several months Cabela's has been doing a great job of keeping supplies in stock and I can only believe it is going to get better.

But the like some folks say....it is much easier just to go buy the ammo in a box and shoot it.

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USAF Retired/VN Vet

Not in every state, brother. 'Round here, I can internet-order my bullets directly to my house, and have thousands of primers and umpteen pounds of powder, locally-purchased, waiting to go. The time it takes to load the ammunition itself is less than it would take me to go to even the Wally World.

Speaking of which, if I wanted to buy ammunition locally, I'd have to go to the Wally World, find the girl that works the Sporting Goods desk, and show her my pistol permit. Then if I want to buy ammo for a gun not listed on my permit, I have to argue with her.

Only then am I allowed to pay through the nose for what I increasingly find to be junk.

I could just go to a gun shop, but then I'd have to drive about three times the distance, and pay even more. Which is, frankly, fair. The shop owner's gotta make enough of a profit to justify the effort, space, and capital involved in stocking ammunition.

So yes. Reloading is about a thousand times easier than just buying ammo.

Big +1 for Powder Valley.

Amen! Was in there the other day & thought I would pick up some 12ga. By the time I found someone to open the case & then check out, add 30min to my trip. In 30min I can reload 350 handgun rds & not have to spend the gas money to get there & back.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Fair enough if you shoot only 9 mm, 40 or 45. I live in the NW suburbs of Philly and reload due to a liking for odd-ball revolver and pistol calibres. 0.455 Webley and S&W 38/200 are rarer than Hen's teeth but I can make very similar loads by reloading and enjoy my collection of old UK martial pistols. Similarly with Mauser C96's where you reload 7.63 Mauser rather than blow the gun up with 7.62 Tokarov. I used to commute to the PRMD on a weekly basis so only had one day a week that I could shoot, but by reloading as I had time, I could enjoy my older weapons rather than be left with using "modern pistols" (I only own a couple of Combat Tupperware pieces, all the rest are blued or stainless steel). Dave_n

Stuff like that I don't shoot often so a few boxes of commercial ammo is fine with me. A few vendors sell 7.63 mauser.



Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I don't know about the general shooting area, but in the competition area, almost all serious shooters handload for a number of reasons. First, when you shoot the amount of ammo that we shoot on a regular basis, the cost savings (yes, there is a cost saving when you're shooting 800-1000 rounds a week), and secondly the ability to tailor the loads for a specific purpose (power factor, accuracy, reliability).

And, the government is at the root of all outrageous fees and taxes.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

I like this guy. He has great taste in guns.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

Just today, I sold my loading gear.
Not sure how I feel about that.

Is reloading dying? Ask yourself who is involved in reloading? I think the obvious answer is someone who does a good deal of shooting. I believe that shooting is more popular than ever especially since more states now permit concealed carry then ever before. No, I don't believe reloading is dying.

Is reloading dying?

Yes, just look at all the powder cremated in this forum.

I find that my time at the reloading bench is a relaxing event for me. I shoot so many old calibers that range in price from $40-75 a box of 50, if you can find them. Calibers like 38-55, 25-20, 30 Luger and have you priced a box of 25-35s. Even 32-20, 32-40 or 38-40 commands a rich price and nobody stocks these calibers. You can find lots of 45acp, 45 colt, 38 special, 9mm, but not 38 S&W or 38 colt. I do have a significant investment in dies, primers, LRNFP bullets, all kinds of powder etc. Gun shows are where I resupply and we have a fair number of them in our area. I also shoot modern guns and make up a lot of 5.56 ammo for the range. I usually use once fired cleaned and processed military brass from local vendors. Reloading is not going away, at least not in this neck of the woods. I have been reloading for over 30 years.

You won't get arguments from me on "common" calibers, but once you venture away from those this could not possibly be further from the truth.

If you find 38 Super on the shelf, it's probably one or two different brands of ball ammo at $40 or better a box.

Good luck finding 32-20. I've bought it off the shelf, but from what I've seen Remington only makes a run every year or two and again you're looking at $40/box.

Even with common calibers, you sometimes have to go to a boutique maker if you want a specific loading. Let's say you want a 168gr or 170gr Keith load for 357 Magnum. Buffalo Bore will charge you $40 for a box of 20. It costs me that much to buy a box of 500 cast 168gr Keith bullets. A $25 can of 2400 and $20 worth of primers(half a brick) will load all 500 bullets, making it $85 for 500.

Cast the bullets yourself and you can knock $20 off that assuming you have to buy the lead. Even though I have a mold, I rarely cast that bullet-the square base and square lube grooves of a true Keith bullet makes it sort of slow to cast since it tends to not release well and my yield of perfect bullets is low.

The savings is pretty much immediate on that specific load-the $900 you save on 500 buys a lot of reloading equipment.

The math is similar if you want something like a heavy "Ruger Only" 45 Colt load, although admittedly I don't shoot much of this particular load. On the other hand, I don't mind casting this bullet.

Also, tell my friend with a 45 Winchester Magnum about ammo availability.

All of that said, I don't bother reloading 9mm. I do reload 38 special, but mostly because I can load it efficiently and prefer what I load over what is available. Also, HBWCs aren't always easy to find and are pricey. I buy Hornady swaged bullets for this load, which I think run 10 or 12¢ each, although it's been a while since I've bought any. Given the minimal amount of powder required, I can still load them for about 20¢ each as opposed to 80¢ for factory ammo. I can easily shoot 500 or more of these in a range trip, and every 500 is a $300 savings.

A lot of the big box stores like Cabela's and Bass Pro carry a limited selection of reloading supplies. They cater to mass market clients and use their shelf space for more mainstream items. Many gun shops don't carry reloading either. The best supplied store I've seen is Sportsmans warehouse. I normally try to buy hazmat items like primers and powder locally and order everything else online.

Dying? I don't think so. At least not in my basement.

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jj

Is Reloading Dead?
Don't think so. I am 70 years old and have been reloading since 1966. Is It Time consuming? Depends on your time and how you allocate it. I tend to batch reload so, I can decide how many per session based on other commitments. Does it save money? No doubt about it. Why do it? If you are reloading, you have just taken a break from work, politics, family issues, work issues, etc. It becomes your time. No interruptions, peace. Even if it cost more to reload than to buy, I would reload just for the relaxation and repetitive actions and attention to detail that reloading requires. I reload for myself and my college roommate and enjoy every minute. I keep a stockpile of primers, powder, and bullets and buy when they are on sale. I would encourage anyone who loves to shoot to consider reloading. It is good for the health.

Arik commented that he has no interest in reloading.
Perfectly understood. Was my own previous conviction.
Have several guns for which no factory load exists. Have numerous others that function much better with a custom load.
Reloading is larger than ever. Similar to those who wish to craft their own furniture. Store-bought may be cheaper.

If you were ever out to Camp Perry during National Matches I would say no. There are tons of powder and a million primers at least. No reloading is going strong and will for along time to come.

I've got too many other hobbies that required a large up-front investment to add reloading. And as with any hobby, there's also a huge time investment to research, learn and do it right. Not to mention material stock. You can't go out and buy reloading equipment and start cranking out bullets any more than you can go out and buy a mill and/or lathe and start making your own guns. I also have sheet metal equipment and wouldn't expect someone to go out and buy the same tools and start making fenders or doors for old cars.

When I hear; "Oh, reloading is cheap and easy", it's usually coming from someone that's been doing it for 20+ years and already has all the tools to do it. I never heard that from the newbies. Unless they're unemployed and hit the lottery.

I planned on getting into reloading for a while before I actually went and did it.

To that end, I started saving my brass. Also, I knew some common powders so slowly started buying powder and primers before I started.

When I finally "bit the bullet" so to speak I bought a bottom of the barrel Lee hand press along with a set of set of 38 special/357 Mag dies. Over time, I've upgraded my equipment as money allowed and necessity presented itself. I loaded a lot of ammo on that hand press, and still have it for quick and dirty jobs. I still use my first set of dies all the time, although I've added to that set over time. I bought a handful of 38 bullet seating plugs from Lee and machined them myself to fit specific bullets. Of course, I've added dies for a bunch of other calibers along the way, too.

I now consider the ~$40 cost of another set of dies when buying a gun in a new caliber, and usually buy them at the same time I buy the gun.

Another thing to consider is that dies rarely wear out, and I've done well buying used dies. This is especially true of bottleneck dies where carbide doesn't offer much advantage(I only buy carbide dies for straight wall cartridges). I still don't own a gun in 38-40, but bought a set of used Redding dies(top quality) along with a bunch of brass for $35.

l reload because the ammo l shoot cant be bought...Virtually NO mid-range loads in 460SW or 44Mag

Ok guys, I'm a little late to the party on this one and probably shouldn't tell cause they sell out fast enough as it is , but American Reloading sells without hazmat fees many times! The bad news is that you usually have to buy in bulk and they have limited selection. If you get on their mailing list you'll be surprised at price and what you can get though!!! The Bullet Works is another good one for cast lead.

I used to reload, then got tired of dragging all the gear around during Air Force and FBI moves. The movers won't take powder or primers, and I finally just sold my press and gear and concentrated on calibers for which I was issued ammo - .38 Special, .357, 9mm, .40, 10mm, .45, .223, 12 gauge, and sometimes .308. Everything else I would just buy factory ammo.

Now I'm retired, and I'm taking up reloading again. I have no desire to devote my garage or basement or spare bedroom to setting up a reloading bench, so I've acquired some Lyman 310 dies and handles and will use that. I know its slow, but I don't care. My dog and I will just plug away with our dumb tong tools.

I don't think reloading is dying, but I do think it will become the purview of older guys like myself. I don't know anyone under the age of 50 who reloads.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Ok, NOW I feel old! and your probably right Sig. the younger crowd today can't take time to be bothered with reloading and technology is starting to make bullets just as good unless your shooting over 600yd.s. Us old guys just enjoy it! It's kind of like hunting, families are smaller and kids have other interests these days. My son always says he looks forward to getting out with me but seems to have less free time every year.