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Old 11-22-2016, 12:33 AM
Kiwi cop Kiwi cop is offline
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Default .45 Auto issue.

Those of you who have read my Two Tone Pistols thread in the "Other Brands" section will know about my .45 Ranger 1911 A1 and how I came to own it.

A few weeks ago I was thinking that I cold get a bit more use out of this pistol than just shooting CAS Wild Bunch events so last week I took it to my club range for the monthly Classic Pistol event. I shot it using my usual IPSC .45 APC load: 6.1 grains of a blended "Action Pistol" powder under a 230 grain LRN for a 5 shot average of 775fps and a 178 power factor.

While shooting the single handed strings ( 2 X 6 rounds at 10 yards in 8 seconds with one string strong hand and the other weak hand only) I felt the loads in this pistol were a bit hotter than they needed to be. After all under Service Match rules (which includes Classic Pistol) the minimum power factor is only 120.

Then at the 25 yard line (3 X strings of 6 shots each fired in 15 seconds, 6 on one target, 6 on the other and then 3 on each target) on one of the last shots in a string the empty case got caught between the slide and the chamber mouth, crushing the neck. I thought this was a simple fluke but......

I loaded some lighter .45 ACP loads and went back to the range yesterday with the Ranger. After sending 5 rounds across the chromo screens ( just under 600 fps average for a 137 pf) I loaded up 8 magazines and set ups he two targets.

First surprise, I shot the best ever Classic Match score I have ever managed. For our club ladder/annual championships we allow any pistol to be used, not just one that meets the "Classic Pistol" requirements.. The current ladder leader is an A grade IPSC shooter and he used his Shadow SP1 9mm Standard division gun. He shot a good 30 points ahead of me (I am currently sitting in second place on the ladder). With the Ranger and lighter loads my score was only 4 points behind. (Pity it wasn't the regular club match day as only scores shot on the scheduled days count).

And at the 25 yard line over half the shots were within the 9 ring and 7 within the 10 ring.

I still had 20 rounds of the light loads left so I set up the targets at 50 yards for the standard Service Match string (6 shots prone, 6 kneeling or sitting and 6 either side of the barricade in 165 seconds) but shooting only 5 round strings. Again the loads were well centred with most within the 8 ring.

I was out of the light loads so I loaded up four mags with my standard .45 load to repeat the exercise. In the first two magazine loads I had two more cases caught between the slide and the chamber mouth!

I am not sure why this should happen as it has never occurred with my Springfield. Any ideas?
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Old 11-22-2016, 12:47 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is online now
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Without any real scientific reason, I would say start with the extractor. If is one of the new external extractors check the spring. If it is the traditional internal extractor, make sure the "claw" isn't chipped, allowing the case to eject at a downward angle.

If I'm wrong it won't have cost you anything but a few minutes of time. I had a similar problem with a 39-2 and hot, hot loads years ago.

Ivan
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Old 11-22-2016, 01:25 AM
Skeet 028 Skeet 028 is offline
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First off Just want to know..what is the following?? 6.1 grains of a blended "Action Pistol" powder..!!?? And what has been suggested is probably right..extractor problem of some sort. Could also be a worn recoil spring that puts things out of whack.
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Old 11-22-2016, 04:52 PM
Kiwi cop Kiwi cop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeet 028 View Post
First off Just want to know..what is the following?? 6.1 grains of a blended "Action Pistol" powder..!!?? And what has been suggested is probably right..extractor problem of some sort. Could also be a worn recoil spring that puts things out of whack.
The powder is used by a local ammunition manufacturer in their factory ammo and also sold to reloaders. They say it is a blend of two different but similar "well known powders which results in the benefits both are known for".

Those benefits are listed as being "renowned for accuracy" for both powders, "long shelf life" for one and "exceptional stability" for the other.

Could be just some advertising hype but the factory ammo has been tested by a local gun magazine who found it very accuracy in most guns, especially .223 and .308 rifles, and the powder is used by a lot pistol shooters here.

It helps that it is around 20% cheaper than imported powders, even those imported from ADI in Australia which you would presume would have a pricing edge over US made powders.

Having said that I have to admit that in my experience (I chromo every batch of ammo I reload) the published tables are well out.

When I first started reloading for the .45 I selected a mid range load of 6.9 grains (tables list min 6.5 and max of 7.3 with a 230 LRN). The power factor was just over 198! The reduced 6.1 charge has been perfect for me in my Springfield, accurate and giving just enough of a safety margin above 170 PF for me to use it in competition.

As it stands though I really do like the AP50N load in this pistol so will probably stick to that for the use I am making of this gun.

The pistol is brand new, less than 200 rounds through it so the recoil spring should not be an issue.

I'll get the extractor checked later today.

Thanks.
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:14 PM
Rogeronimo Rogeronimo is offline
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AP50N? I'm a huge fan of Int'l Clays behind a 230 gn XTP! Well played.
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Old 09-06-2017, 02:35 AM
Kiwi cop Kiwi cop is offline
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Default Solved!

A few months ago a staff member at my main supplier with much more knowledge of the 1911 than myself suggested that the recoil spring might be too weak, possibly as light as 9 Ib, causing full house loads to work the slide a bit fast.

I recently bought a 15 Ib recoil spring for my Springfield 1911 A1 and put the one I was replacing into the Ranger. It now shoots magazine after magazine of full power .45 apc loads with no problems.


Last edited by Kiwi cop; 09-06-2017 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 09-06-2017, 08:07 AM
johngalt johngalt is offline
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The standards recoil spring weight for a 1911 should be 16.5 lbs. too light causes excessive battering when the slide opens. Too heavy causes excessive battering when it closes. There used to be wadcutter only guns with light springs. Use of full power loads in those guns could damage the slide.

Not saying there is anything wrong with using a 15 lbs spring, I just wasn't sure if you knew that 16.5 was standard.
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Last edited by johngalt; 09-06-2017 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 09-06-2017, 02:03 PM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
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Quote:
Kiwi Cop wrote:
6.1 grains of a blended "Action Pistol" powder
What is a "blended" powder?

EDIT: Pardon me, I see you answered it later in the thread.

Last edited by hdwhit; 09-06-2017 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 09-06-2017, 02:21 PM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
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Quote:
Kiwi Cop wrote:
The powder is used by a local ammunition manufacturer in their factory ammo and also sold to reloaders. They say it is a blend of two different but similar "well known powders which results in the benefits both are known for".
Yikes!

Your first recourse is to the powder "blender" since they should be able to tell you the characteristics of their powder in that cartridge at that charge.

It may be this "local ammunition manufacturer" has the laboratory equipment as well as chemists and engineers with the requisite knowledge to safely and responsibly do what EVERY powder manufacturer explicitly says DON'T DO. And if they do, their chemists and engineers will be able to diagnose your problem straight away.

On the other hand, if the powder blender lacks these resources, it might be best to switch to a canister powder and published load data.
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Old 09-06-2017, 02:52 PM
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Many of the most popular powders sold under the Hodgdon brand in the USA (including Varget and H4350) are actually made by Thales Australia Ltd. (formerly ADI, Ltd.) in Australia

Hodgdon Equivalents for ADI Product Codes << Daily Bulletin

Trail Boss from IMR (now owned by Hodgdon) is a newer powder developed by the Australian company ADI
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Old 09-08-2017, 09:09 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
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The photos are a tough ''roll a few years back''to me.My beloved Combat Commander had developped the same symptoms.
I'm not familiar with the powder that you are using but a 230gr LRN at 775 is certainly not a ''violent to the gun''load(you'd experience the same situation with ''way too hot loads for the gun'').As per my past experience,it is either a worn extractor and/or a tired recoil spring.
I always thought that a spring would loose strenght so gradually that you wouldn't be aware of it but yes,it gets to a point where it works,works,works and...stops performing its duty.I'd check that first.
Qc

Last edited by Qc Pistolero; 09-08-2017 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 09-09-2017, 11:37 AM
Kiwi cop Kiwi cop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngalt View Post
The standards recoil spring weight for a 1911 should be 16.5 lbs. too light causes excessive battering when the slide opens. Too heavy causes excessive battering when it closes. There used to be wadcutter only guns with light springs. Use of full power loads in those guns could damage the slide.

Not saying there is anything wrong with using a 15 lbs spring, I just wasn't sure if you knew that 16.5 was standard.
Yes I was aware of this.

However I only shoot .45 app in competition using a 200 gn jacketed projectile. I was advised by 2 of my fellow shooters much more experienced than I am with the 1911 to go to a 14Ib spring, but the 15 Ib was all I could obtain and as I occasionally shoot 230 gn lead for practice thought it was the better choice.
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