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  #51  
Old 12-24-2016, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Just me, but buying cast bullets to spens the time to remove the lube then powder coat, seems like a huge time suck. Just buy pc bullets & call it good.
Casting your own is quite cheap if you have access to free or cheap lead. A lee 6cav mold/handles, 20# bottom pour pot, lee sizing die, under $150. That isless than 2000 factory cast bullets.
you can buy cast bullets unsized/unlubed from Dardas and others
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  #52  
Old 12-24-2016, 01:14 PM
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you can buy cast bullets unsized/unlubed from Dardas and others
Yup, I can get 'm from Sumner too. But you can't get them SIZED and unlubed. It's a choice of neither or both - and I don't have sizing equipment and I want them to be sized, so....
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  #53  
Old 12-24-2016, 04:08 PM
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Casting your own is the only reason to powdercoat - in your OPINION.
My reasons aren't that complicated.
Even if I buy and de-lube bullets to powdercoat, they will be half the price of Missouri Bullets coated bullets or Xtreme plated bullets.
PLUS I get to learn how to do it.
WITHOUT the time or monetary investment of taking up casting for now.
Pretty simple really.
But it is not half the cost???? You will save about $20 buying bullets, delubing then powder coating. That is my point. Feel free to do as you like, but facts are facts.
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  #54  
Old 12-24-2016, 04:11 PM
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you can buy cast bullets unsized/unlubed from Dardas and others
Sure, Dardas 124/9mm, same price naked or sized & lubed. So $170/1000 or just buy them pic for $110ish.?? I am still not seeing the allure. Buy hem lady done, $78/1000.
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  #55  
Old 12-24-2016, 04:14 PM
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Yup, I can get 'm from Sumner too. But you can't get them SIZED and unlubed. It's a choice of neither or both - and I don't have sizing equipment and I want them to be sized, so....
Sizing first is problematic as you usually have some kind of lube to make sizing easier. Then that lube has to be removed before pc.
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  #56  
Old 12-24-2016, 04:20 PM
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Okay, ya'all got me going on this powder coating thing. I do have one question.

Details: I cast 158, 180, and 240gr SWC. I load hot (not always but I like to practice with the same round I hunt with) for 38/357 and 44 mag. I had a heck of a time with leading. First I added antimony to the lead for a harder bullet. That helped but not a fix. Then I started gas checking the bullets. That of course was the fix.

Question: Will powder coating prevent the lead form melting as the bullet goes down the barrel? ie, leading. It sounds like PC would be a quicker process than Gas Checking. I really like the bullets I make. Very accurate, hard hitting and clean to shoot. Are the benefits of PC that much better with a high tin gas check semi-wad-cutter? I always like trying new thing if the benefits may be worth it.

We make our own bullets so we can Shoot, Shoot, Shoot and then Shoot some more without spending all the grocery money.
Leading is almost always a bullet fit issue. Powder coating helps but won't fix a poor bullet fit. Have you slugged each Cyl throat of your rev? If the throats are small, it sizes the bullet down before hitting the rifling, produces leading early in the bbl.
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  #57  
Old 12-24-2016, 07:44 PM
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Ahhh..the debate. Anytime someone asks me about getting into reloading or casting especially, my first question to them is how much free time do you have? If you have a busy personal life, neither is really for you. It does take time...and sometimes I find both endeavors laborious but that quickly goes away when see how accurate and cheap my hand loads are. I scrounge some lead but purchase most of it. Like fredj, if I'm buying for anything around $1.10/lb or less, it's a win. My little 105gn, 38 plinkers are super accurate and cheap (about 1.9 cents/bullet powder coated).And they have enough power to knock a plate rack down no problem. I cast 230gn fp for 45 colt as well.. I may try the same bullet for 45 acp down the road. Tried 9mm cast, could never get fit and function together..accurate, ran great for a box of 50, then the leading came... Lol. A few of my revolvers will lead even with powder coat...but they're deadly accurate and the lead only barely starts to show after about 400 rounds or so....cleans up pretty easy so I don't bother chasing that issue down due to its subtlety. I've gotten to the point now where I can't stand paying retail for any centerfire ammo... Lol. Needless to say, I rarely buy it.
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  #58  
Old 12-24-2016, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
But it is not half the cost???? You will save about $20 buying bullets, delubing then powder coating. That is my point. Feel free to do as you like, but facts are facts.
OK, not exactly half - $25 vs $45 - so they are only 40% cheaper instead of 50% cheaper. Satisfied?
Kinda' picking nits ain't ya'?

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  #59  
Old 12-24-2016, 09:14 PM
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Jeepers, I always thought leading was from the heat in the barrel caused by detonation. Too hot a load melts the lead as the bullet travels down the barrel (small amount) and the lead adheres to the rifling. Thus the gas check give the bullet the protection from the heat. I learned the indication of poor bullet fit is in accuracy(ie tumbling bullets). Well I guess that's why I blog, to learn more?
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  #60  
Old 12-25-2016, 01:37 AM
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OK, not exactly half - $25 vs $45 - so they are only 40% cheaper instead of 50% cheaper. Satisfied?
Kinda' picking nits ain't ya'?
Did you look at the links i provided? I am not sure where you are getting your mumbers, but hey, your time, knock yourself out.
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  #61  
Old 12-25-2016, 12:27 PM
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Did you look at the links i provided? I am not sure where you are getting your mumbers, but hey, your time, knock yourself out.
LOL, only one of your links even works - the rest of them just show up as "404 Page not found".

But I did go to the Missouri Bullets page and their 158gr RNFP coated are $43.50/500. That is 8.7 cents apiece. The Sumner 158gr RNFP are $25/500 - that is 5 cents apiece. So the Missouri Bullets cost 74% more, or looking at it the other way, the uncoated Sumner bullets are PRECISELY 37% less. Like I said, you're picking nits.

As I stated several times there are multiple reasons I'm considering this. But you are choosing to focus on the one that you think you can best argue against (cost). And to what purpose? To muck up my thread and turn it into a pointless argument? Get it locked by the moderators? Or just to be disagreeable?

This thread is about powdercoating and how and why people do it. Here's an idea: how about starting your own thread about why you think people powdercoating bullets themselves is a waste of time - instead of being condescending to people and derailing this thread into an argument about why YOU think it isn't worthwhile?

Last edited by BC38; 12-26-2016 at 01:06 AM.
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  #62  
Old 12-25-2016, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sixtwoniner View Post
Jeepers, I always thought leading was from the heat in the barrel caused by detonation. Too hot a load melts the lead as the bullet travels down the barrel (small amount) and the lead adheres to the rifling. Thus the gas check give the bullet the protection from the heat. I learned the indication of poor bullet fit is in accuracy(ie tumbling bullets). Well I guess that's why I blog, to learn more?
Leading at the beginning of the bbl (chamber end/forcing cone) ='s wrong bullet diameter.
Leading the length of the bbl ='s wrong alloy, wrong/bad lube
Leading at the end of the bbl ='s wrong lube/ran out of lube.

There are 2 types of bullet coating. The difference in a polyester bases coating (dry powder coat) and urethane based coating (wet paint).

I use the dry powder coating to coat bullets. I have had no problem with leading in any pistol/revolver/rifle I have tried the coated bullets in. I have done test loads with the coated bullets in the 9,000psi range to 50,000+psi range. I have found the powder coated bullets to do no leading & the loaded ammo is extremely clean along with being accurate enough for my needs.

I understand accuracy means different things to different people. Some examples:
Playing around with 900+fps 15,000psi 38spl loads. What the revolver looked like after a 200 round range session.

I consider that load listed above as accurate, test groups of that load.


A closeup from a 700 round range session with a 1911 chambered in 9mm. The load is a 125gr coated hp doing 1100+fps/25,000psi load (my 9mm target load).

I consider that load listed above as accurate.


I like to do plinking loads for the 308 the loads vary along with the bullets. Most of the plinking loads are with nothing more than pistol powders and several different bullets doing 1600fps to 1900fps. Typical plinking loads with coated bullets for the 308.


Recovered bullets from the berm, these were loaded anywhere from mild to wild. Mild ='s 14,000+psi wild ='s 33,000+psi


Playing around testing coated bullets with no gas checks in a 308.As you can see the bases are still coated and intact. The loads:
1700fps ='s 20,000psi
1900fps ='s 30,000psi
2100fps ='s 40,000psi
2300fps ='s 50,000+psi
The 2300fps bullet is a 230gr lee 300 blackout bullet. Try loading a 230gr bullet in a 308 to 2300fps some time. It's a hot load.


Without getting into a lengthy (I'm already long winded in this one!!!) discussion of what has to happen to make a load accurate. A picture of some targets (13 of them). Was looking for some plinking loads for a beater (truck gun) 629 that would do minute of golf ball @ 25yds. Minute of golf ball ='s 1 1/2" or nra x-ring accuracy @ 25yds. Anyway tested several different bullet/powder combo's. When I used traditional cast/sized/lubed bullets I got 3 loads that had mogb accuracy. Did the same test loads over again, this time I used the same cast bullets and coated them and ran them thru the same push thru sizer that I used on the traditional cast/lubed bullets. Same firearm, same mixed cases, same yada-yada-yaa. The difference was:
13 vs 3 that's huge!!! Had 13 loads that would do 1 1/2" @25yds ve 3.


Well worth looking into.
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  #63  
Old 12-25-2016, 02:55 PM
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This thread is about powdercoating and how and why people do it. How about starting your own thread about why you think people powdercoating bullets themselves is a waste of time - instead of being condescending to people and derailing this thread into an argument about why YOU think it isn't worthwhile?
Read it:

Lack of civility in the reloading forum.
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  #64  
Old 12-25-2016, 03:05 PM
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Who? Me? Or Fred? I thought I was being pretty civil by asking nicely that my thread not be derailed into an argument....

Last edited by BC38; 12-25-2016 at 03:44 PM.
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  #65  
Old 01-25-2017, 12:49 AM
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Just for the benefit of anyone who was interested in this discussion, I thought I'd post a little info.

First, the powdercoating of the unlubed 148gr LWCs I picked up at the gunshow is going swimmingly. See the attached photos of a tray full of the bullets ready to bake, the tray fresh out of the oven, the smash test on a couple, and a closeup of one of them.

I've only done an experimental batch of 50 and one full batch of 100 so far but since I can fit 100 on a tray, about 3 more batches will finish them off. I'm borrowing a sizing die from my buddy since they'll still need to be sized before loading. The coated bullets are measuring out at .360

In regards to trying to powdercoat some that are already lubed and sized, I am experimenting with a few hundred slightly undersized (.427/.428) 200gr 44 cal bullets that I bought at a very discounted price. The lube on them is old and brown and sticky. I first tried the suggestion of boiling a few of them in water to remove the old lube, but after 10-15 minutes at a hard boil, less than half of the sticky gunk had come off and floated to the top and the lube grooves were still full of lube.

So, I decided to try dropping a few others into a little container with some gasoline. In just a few minutes ALL the brown gunk was dissolved and the bullets looked nice and clean - including the lube grooves. So a gasoline bath followed by an acetone wash - as suggested on the cast boolits site - looks to be just the ticket.

Putting a 0.001" - 0.002" layer of powdercoat on them ought to bring them right up to size - and they shouldn't need to be resized afterwards.
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  #66  
Old 01-25-2017, 03:35 AM
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I don't cast my own and probably won't but could see doing the coating.
The main reason to buy cast bullets and then possibly remove the lube and PC them would be to obtain coated bullet types not sold yet like the LBT style WFN (with or without GC).
Another reason would be to bump up slightly those bullets for use in the microgroove rifles.
Many bullets are not sold sized as large as .432-.433 that the 444's like.
If someone just sold coated LBT bullets, I would take a look at those but until then this topic interests me.
I just started shooting the MBC and Acme coated bullets and they rock but prefer the WFN style.
I am going to have to start nagging guys like Montana Bullet Works, Cast Performance and Beartooth Bullets to start coating.
Given the amount of shooting I can do especially with the bigger boomers, the cost doesn't really bother me.
It's the pursuit of performance perfection I enjoy.
And knowing that when something works well, it's because of something I did not something "off the rack".
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  #67  
Old 01-25-2017, 04:24 AM
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I have 2 lbs on order from Eastwood Powder company. When it gets here I'm going to try Elvis Ammo's latest method. Heat the bullets up to 140°F for 4 minutes then dump them and the powder in a plastic container, with a lid, shake real good for about 1 minute, then dump them onto a 1/4" mesh screen (with sides). Separate the bullets as best you can then bake them for 20 minutes at 400°F. If some stick together just snap them apart. Watch his video on YouTube. His bullets look great. He said to size AFTER coating. Eastwoods powder sticks better than does the Harbor Freight powder (ground finer).

It's amazing how fast these can be pushed without leading the barrel while still making round holes. To date I have been buying coated bullets from MBC. If I get it to work then I'll do my own.

Mike
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  #68  
Old 01-25-2017, 11:32 PM
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I have 2 lbs on order from Eastwood Powder company. When it gets here I'm going to try Elvis Ammo's latest method. Heat the bullets up to 140°F for 4 minutes then dump them and the powder in a plastic container, with a lid, shake real good for about 1 minute, then dump them onto a 1/4" mesh screen (with sides). Separate the bullets as best you can then bake them for 20 minutes at 400°F. If some stick together just snap them apart. Watch his video on YouTube. His bullets look great. He said to size AFTER coating. Eastwoods powder sticks better than does the Harbor Freight powder (ground finer).

It's amazing how fast these can be pushed without leading the barrel while still making round holes. To date I have been buying coated bullets from MBC. If I get it to work then I'll do my own.

Mike
Yeah, most of what I've read about the HF powder indicates that it is pretty coarse and doesn't stick well or easily unless you use a spray gun. I bought some better quality. more finely ground powder from Smoke4320 - one of the vendors on the cast boolits website.

I'm using a margarine tub (#5 recycling symbol) and enough air soft BBs to form a double layer on the bottom of the tub. Put around 30 bullets in the tub, swirl it for a minute or so to guild up the static, then shake vigorously for another minute to get a good even powder coat. Pic the coated bullets out and arrange them on a tray covered with non-stick foil with a pair of hemostats. Bake them for 20 minutes at 375-400 degrees.

A little more tedious and take a bit more time, but it turns out pretty much perfectly covered bullets.

Last edited by BC38; 01-25-2017 at 11:33 PM.
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  #69  
Old 01-26-2017, 03:10 PM
Mikeinkaty Mikeinkaty is offline
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I'm going to try 100 bullets at a time.
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