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  #51  
Old 12-22-2016, 06:52 PM
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Before leaving the states 23 years ago I ran 2 all tricked out Star Machines and a Rock Chucker.

I returned 3 years ago and began living in a 2 bedroom rental without a garage so for me it was a Lee Hand Press,Lee Auto Prime,a Lee Classic Power Measure and an RCBS 10-10 scale.

A few months ago I bought a townhouse condo with 2 car garage.

The 1st thing I did after settling in was to purchase a Lee Classic 4 hole Turret Press.

I don't need to load more than 300 rounds a week for my 2 weekly indoor range trips a mile away.

Also I'm doing a lot more .22lr shooting than before due to the abundance of ammo available now.I loaded up on mini mags at Gander Mt on Black Friday while they were $6.79/100 and again at Walmart a few days ago for $7.29/100
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  #52  
Old 12-22-2016, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Agree, just pointing out the salient points. Cost of tools shouldn't really be in the equation when approaching a job. What the tools allow you to do is far more important.
I still use my ss press, but a turret just doesn't have a place on my bench between the ss, 550 & 650. The 550 can be used as an inverted turret should i feel the need to go pull the handle 3000 times + for 1000rds.
Eh, it's a hobby most pursue with limited disposable income. If it were a professional tool I was using in a trade, spend away.

Me, I can't imagine using anything but a Lee turret for the time being--unless you want to mail me one for free. I could probably commit to two loadings for .38 Spl (a single LSWC and a single WC). But I don't really want to make more than a couple boxes at a time of .45 and .44, because I spend so much time experimenting.
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  #53  
Old 12-22-2016, 07:42 PM
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Every press discussion brings out the Dillon fans who seem incapable of comprehending that everyone doesn't need or want a progressive.
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  #54  
Old 12-22-2016, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TAROMAN View Post
Every press discussion brings out the Dillon fans who seem incapable of comprehending that everyone doesn't need or want a progressive.
It also brings out the Dillon haters who can't avoid an opportunity to tell everyone their views.
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  #55  
Old 12-22-2016, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Possibly for someone that just doesn't shoot a lot then even reloading might mot make sense. If you shoot even 1200rds a year, the cost of even the best progressive is easily amortized over say 10yrs, $1200 / 120 = $10 a month. For those on a fixed income, that isn't difficult, but then the time saved allows you to make or scrounge more $$ too.
My first 550 cost me $250. It paid for itself in less than 4m loading 45colt for CAS. Today that machine is worth $400+. Just saying, too many people put little value on their time & only look at the $$$s. I can always make/scrounge $$$. Time on the other hand is always fleeting.
Another way to look at a progressive is it saves me time reloading so I can spend time doing things like bullet casting. So I "save" even more on my ammo cost. Just saying, reloaders shouldn't get too hung up on equip costs if the equip saves you time.
When I load .357 or rifle rounds, the saving become very apparent. Bullets are the most expensive component (not counting brass which is reused) and if you can find cheaper bullets you can save 10-15 cents/round. I load lead RN bullets in my 30-06 and shoot reduced loads. CHEAP fun!!!

9mm is cheap now, but if I reload I can afford to shoot more per month than if I bought new ammo, so I see some sort of savings there. Fortunately, since I'm retired I can make time to do all the little detail parts of reloading even the cheap stuff. If I were still working I'd probably think differently.
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  #56  
Old 12-23-2016, 10:35 AM
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I certainly don't hate Dillon. Shoot they're an AZ company. All my pals have fancy Dillon rigs. To a man they all extoll Dillon's customer service. It must be good as they're always lugging their presses down to Scottsdale for tweaks. I just don't need one.
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Old 12-23-2016, 03:53 PM
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I have said it before and will say it yet again.

It all depends on how much ammo you need, and how many calibers.

I can buy any press I want. In fact I had the RCBS auto index Progressive and found it more work than I wanted. I sold it Why?...
I load about every handgun caliber from 32 Auto to 460 SW Mag plus 4 rifles. So to me change over is important. I was able to buy all the extra turrets and dies plus all other odds and ends for less than just the price of a Dillon or RCBS progressive and still had money left over.

I do not need 500-1000 rounds a week, I have the time I can go load for say 1 hour, walk away and then load some another time. I also like the "control" over every round produced. If some hang up occurs it is a 30 second check to fix and move on (very rare).

Change from 9mm to 45 ACP? Remove powder measure, insert preset powder drum, put in turret with dies, put on large primer arm and start reloading!

Yes, I deprime and prime on the press. I read about many progressive press owners that do that off the press. Seems like that negates some of the progressive press advantage,

Also with rifle brass and those that use a wax lube how do you lube say 500 or 1000 pieces if brass, deprime them off the press, clean them , then prime them off the press , then load them on the progressive??
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Old 12-23-2016, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovishound View Post
I've been using a Lee classic turret for several years. I love the convenience of being able to change calibers in seconds. I normally use mine in continuous mode and feel that it is substantially faster than a single stage. I only handle the case once. That is were the time savings are. Look at a few videos to get an idea of how things move along.

The other thing I like about the turret is that I am still doing one operation at a time. This gives me greater awareness of what is happening compared to a progressive.

For me, the big down side to a progressive is the initial cost. I like Lee products, but would be leery of buying one of their progressives. The Dillon is likely a good machine, but not only is the press extremely expensive, caliber conversions are quite pricey as well.

If I were loading a lot more rounds per week than I do now, I would be looking at a progressive. For the 100 - 200 rounds a week I do now, the turret is a perfect fit. The other great thing about a turret is that I can go a load up 20 or 30 rounds when I have a little spare time. The die change over and adjustments make that inefficient on a single stage.
I use the Lee Classic Turret Press myself. I pay VERY close attention when I am loading. Never had problems. Never any bad ammo. Always use the 4 die sets. I load at my leisure, as mentioned above. Will I ever go to a progressive? No, unless it is free. Just remember...... to each his own! Bob
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Old 12-23-2016, 04:45 PM
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Yep..to each his own. The only rifle caliber I load on my progressives is 223. I use Dillon or Hornady spray lube and let it dry overnight. I also use carbide dies for the 223. Never stuck a case yet after more than 20M so far.When done I degrease about a 100 at a time with a towel and alcohol. No misfires either. Are they match accurate..doubtful but they shoot as well or better than most military fodder. Match stuff is loaded that way of course. BTW 223 is one of the cheapest rounds I load. I haunt the gun shows and other places and buy partial boxes of .224 bullets cheap. And cases are really cheap also. My blow away 223 usually runs about 10-12 cents each. I just got about 30lbs of powder to use in 223 for approx a dollar a pound. And 6 lbs of Red Dot for many handgun calibers for the same cost. Why would someone have a progressive press and deprime etc separately?
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  #60  
Old 12-23-2016, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAROMAN View Post
Every press discussion brings out the Dillon fans who seem incapable of comprehending that everyone doesn't need or want a progressive.
Why is it that so many non Dillon owners get personally offended when people just state some facts & opinions? Really, I don't care how much time you waste or what gear you use. The OP asked a question & got mostly good advice & opinions on which way to go.
Many that do NOT own any type of progressive will chime in about cost & need but have really no basis for their opinion. So those of us that do have such exp just like to keep the facts straight. Go fast, go slow, there is little downside to a good progressive but cost, which I have said many times is waaay over stated.
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  #61  
Old 12-23-2016, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Possibly for someone that just doesn't shoot a lot then even reloading might mot make sense. If you shoot even 1200rds a year, the cost of even the best progressive is easily amortized over say 10yrs, $1200 / 120 = $10 a month. For those on a fixed income, that isn't difficult, but then the time saved allows you to make or scrounge more $$ too.
My first 550 cost me $250. It paid for itself in less than 4m loading 45colt for CAS. Today that machine is worth $400+. Just saying, too many people put little value on their time & only look at the $$$s. I can always make/scrounge $$$. Time on the other hand is always fleeting
Being retired,I have more time than money most of the year with the end of the money arriving before the end of the month during a few times of the year.

Can I send Dillon $10 a month for 10 years,I think not.

OK,I'm not that bad off financially,I simply don't need to pump out a month's worth of shooting in one hour and then watch the boob tube or take the mrs shopping much more than .I care to.

I enjoy the slower pace of my Lee Classic Turret
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  #62  
Old 12-23-2016, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by littleriver1 View Post
I went from a single stage to the Lee classic turret press. The answer is. You will increase from 200-300 a month to 200-300 in 2 to 3 hours or less. But it depends on how many times you check your work and what powder dispenser you use. I really like the 4 hole die holder (get one for each cal.) and the newest auto drum powder dispenser. Not everyone needs a progressive press. The turret press is not a big leap, it's just a good step in the right direction.
Well said! An auto indexing LCT will give you 95% of the process control (and safety) of a single stage and an honest production rates of 4-5 rounds a minute. ( Figure 150 rounds an hour including set-up, refills, inspections etc.)
Personally, I don't like progressive presses for most reloading ( and sold mine off long ago.) With the turret, I see and feel every operation. I am part of the process. With a full progressive , there are 4-5 things going on at once so it's harder to see/feel when something goes south ( as it eventually will.)
Personally, I look at the LTC as the Chevy Truck of reloaders. Maybe not the biggest, badast and most expensive but as much ride as most will ever need.
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  #63  
Old 12-23-2016, 06:39 PM
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We had and used a Rockchucker only for over 20 years.. by the time the youngest kid got into centerfire handguns, I'd injured my neck (blown disks) & had a lobe of my R lung removed due to lung cancer & using that old Rockchucker to load 400 rds of ammo a week hurt too much... that's 4 pulls of the handle for each round.. times 400...

We bought a Dillon 550B & on the 2nd night we had it, we set it up effortlessly using their easy to read & follow manual... I kept the primer tubes refilled.. my wife operated the handle.. inserted the empty case & advanced the machine... the youngest daughter used her Mark I eyeball to judge the level of powder in each case & to put on each bullet, the Dillon powder thrower was easily set up to throw the proper & consistent charge of Unique powder...

we got it to throw 5 consecutive cases of powder that were on the nuts... then started loading... every 50 rounds or so we weighed the powder in a case after station II & it was always on the nuts...

The two girls loaded 485 .38spec rounds of 148 gr lead wad cutters in right at one hour.... with me re-filling the primer tubes & keeping their stashes of bullets & empty cases where they wanted them.

We now load .38 spec, .357 mag, 9mmpara, .44 spec, .44mag, .45 ACP, .45Colt & .223 Rem on our Dillon 550B. It is so much easier to use the Dillon 550B over our old Rockchucker.. but as we load for many different rifle cartridges often in lots of 20 to less than 50... the Rockchucker will never leave.

We also have 3 shotgun reloaders too & a conversion kit for one of those. 12ga, 20ga, 28ga & .410... all of the reloading gear can be easily sold by my lady after I'm gone or she can let the kids & grandkids use it if she wans too... they'll never wear out.

My advice is to get the Dillon 550B & keep your single stage press too... you will only buy reloading gear once , if you get RCBS or Dillon.. they stand behind their warranty 100%. I cannot find a written warranty for Lee... but I understand that now they are starting to replace some defective dies & gear... the internet is a great place to share gripes & companies found that out.

Added/forgot: The retail price of those 485 .38 spec rounds we reloaded in one hour the first time we used it, would have paid for that Dillon 550B...after that everything is gravy. We already had a good RCBS scale so there was no need to buy another one for the Dillon.
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  #64  
Old 12-23-2016, 06:58 PM
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All I know, is that my wife & I shoot an amazing amount of 9mm, 38 Special, .223, & 45 ACPs. A bit less with other calibers. I do enjoy slow production loads on the single, where I do a lot of experimentation. But, it's always on my mind, just how many completed cartridges are being produced with every pull, on my prized Dillon 650. Just gotta love it!!!
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  #65  
Old 12-23-2016, 09:01 PM
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I used a Rockchucker for years with no complaints, then decided to give a turret a try. I bought a Redding on sale and have loved it. When loading pistol ammo, I will size/decap one stroke, then turn the turret and expand case mouths, so it saves one time of handling cases over a single-station (put the case in the shell holder once, complete three operations). Then I prime a 50-case loading block with a Lee autoprime, charge all 50, then seat/crimp bullets. I prefer it over the progressive (I have a 550 Dillon but I only use it to load 9mm). For me, it's a little faster than a single-stage but gives me the same control over the process. I know for some high-volume shooters the progressive really makes sense and is the way to go, but I simply don't have the luxury of that much range time at this point in my life, so the turret is a good compromise for me.
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Old 12-23-2016, 10:41 PM
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I also don't shoot as much as used to...but when I load I load in large batches. Most of my handgun ammo is mid range blowing holes through the air and paper. Serious loads I do on one of my T-7s or the AT-500. I understand some people just enjoy the process of reloading. I don't I like my loads...I like saving money and like the accuracy I can get with rifle loads especially. I have loads in rifle that I have been using since the 60s Not going to change 'em I have batches of rifle ammo in the vault..some is 5 yrs old I understand some people don't want to buy a progressive or a Turret. I want to spend as little time reloading as possible so for pistol/revolver and 223 I have 1050s and 650s. I have started loading 223 after cleaning and checking all those cases..well over 10M . Should last me a long time. I'll never lose money on my reloading equipment...and yes I did enjoy reloading way back in the 60s

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  #67  
Old 12-23-2016, 11:27 PM
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I've never did get a turret press.
I wanted to get the Lyman Spar-T turret when I first started loading in the early 60's but the extra cost kept me with a single hole Spartan(which is still cranking out rounds in the hands of another family member to this day).
On to a CH 'H' single and then a Lyman O-Crusher. That's been it for rifle rounds and most all pistol.
I did buy a SD (no'B") in the late 70's I think it was in 38sp as I started to shoot Bullseye. What a revelation! Cranking out rounds with ease,,I loved it.
Still have it and use it occasionally. Needs a going over as some of the old delrin white plastic parts are starting to break down.
Have a 9mm conversion for it too but have never used it.

Single stage for everything else as a box is more than enough for me for a trip to the range. No AR or AK to feed.
Lots of odd ones to load, and case forming, bullet sizing up or down is part of the job on many.
Shotgun 12ga is progressive on a MEC. I shoot a lot of that every week.
20ga and 410 on MEC single stage and seems like stone-age after using the progressive but I really don't shoot enough of the small gauges to go ahead an buy progressives for them.

I'd rather shoot than reload,,but I don't necessarily find the time spent an absolute waste or a bore. Especially when case altering and making up ammo for one of the oldies to get it back shooting again.
There's more reloading 'stuff' on the shelves and in storage than I'll probably ever get to use up. But like many, I can't help looking for more bargains out there.
....like an old CH single stage press, near brand new cond, probably from the late 50's early 60's as it uses the separate rams as shell holders. Came with 5 rams, all in common sizes, both primer arms..price was $15 at a small fire-hall show. Couldn't pass that up.
...Probably good for somethin' even if I never use it..
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StakeOut View Post
Being retired,I have more time than money most of the year with the end of the money arriving before the end of the month during a few times of the year.

Can I send Dillon $10 a month for 10 years,I think not.

OK,I'm not that bad off financially,I simply don't need to pump out a month's worth of shooting in one hour and then watch the boob tube or take the mrs shopping much more than .I care to.

I enjoy the slower pace of my Lee Classic Turret
As i get older, closer to retiring, my time seems more valuable.
I started on a ss press. I teach reloading on a ss press. For handgun shooters, anything over 100rds a week, i wont recommend anything but a progressive. Workload & total time invested far out way a few $100. It probably doesnt get much better than a 550 for less than 500rds a week. Use it as a progressive or if you just like pulling the handle, use it as an inverted turret. Options, i like options & for only $250 more, no brainer. That is 1000 factory 9mm?
Another point i often hear that needs correction is quality control. Done properly, there is no loss of control or quality loading on A progressive. Just pay attention & resist becoming a handle puller.
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Old 12-24-2016, 01:04 AM
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I have been using a Lee Classic turret press for several years. I load 6 hand gun calibers and 3 rifle calibers. each caliber are setted on there own turret, the hardest part of loading is setting up the powder measure. I have ordered the Inline Fabrication case ejector from what I have heard it should speed up the process.
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Old 12-24-2016, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovishound View Post
A turret might not help with the number of handle pulls, but being able to easily go and load a limited number of rounds at a session and spread out the loading process, may help.
I suspect you will not want to set up and load a small number on a progressive. Plus, I suspect the pull weight is higher/longer on a progressive than on a turret. Maybe some owners of both could chime in on that.
I currently use a turret for this reason... it's easy to process as much as you like and do some custom work at the same time, without having to do a tool head change.. maybe screw in a die or two

Progressive have an equal pull it's in the design of the leverage..at least that's how I remember mine.
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Old 12-24-2016, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by chaparrito View Post
It must be good as they're always lugging their presses down to Scottsdale for tweaks. I just don't need one.
Really? Always, huh? My 650 is so mechanically simple, I can't imagine taking it to anyone for anything. Complex compared to a single stage, yeah maybe. Too complex to manage at home...no. I find it skeptical your friends are always taking their equipment back to Dillon to get it running right. If that's true I think is says more about their mechanical inclination than the engineering of their presses.

I got into reloading because I like to tinker. The more there is to tinker with the better. I can see how and why some people don't want deal with monitoring more stuff than what's fundamentally necessary, but that's the prospective operator's own inihibition about the technology. The technology works very well, and has been for sometime now.

One of these days I'll get a Dillon 1050 with a Mark 7 digital auto drive. Totally unnecessary, but making ammo is fun, immediately gratifying, and rewarding. To me it's a hobby in and of itself. When it comes to my hobbies I typically find more is better...even if I don't neeeeeed something

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Old 12-24-2016, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by SLT223 View Post
Really? Always, huh? My 650 is so mechanically simple, I can't imagine taking it to anyone for anything. Complex compared to a single stage, yeah maybe. Too complex to manage at home...no. I find it sceptical your friends are always taking their equipment back to Dillon to get it running right. If that's true I think is says more about their mechanical inclination than the engineering of their presses.

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Exactly what I thought, when I read the prior response. I start wondering about a persons "mechanical inclination". If someone can't get the Dillon running right, there are ton's of clues spread across the internet. Usually a simple fix.
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  #73  
Old 12-24-2016, 11:34 AM
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Oh, goody!

Yet another thread turning into an argument over progressive presses, brand name, etc.

May I direct your attention to the original post for a moment?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
I use a singe stage Rockchucker. Let's say I wanted to increase my output without going to a progressive. How much does a turret press increase your output over a single stage, all thing considered. i.e. changing calibers and making adjustments as well as better production. Right now I make a few hundred rounds/month.

I'm really looking at progressives, but I'd like to know this before making the 'leap'.
The OP specifically asked how much a turret press would increase production without going to a progressive.

Why do we need to bicker over it? I understand if you have the opinion that a progressive setup is a better investment for you.

Let's try to remember, what is best for you or me is NOT what is best for the next person.
We certainly don't need to argue over it.


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Old 12-24-2016, 12:51 PM
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quote: The OP specifically asked how much a turret press would increase production without going to a progressive


To be fair, the OP also stated that he was really looking into progressives. In other words, would a turret make enough difference in production rate, to forget about making the leap to a progressive.

This invites the argument (since I can't think of a better word at the moment) that many single press users have against those who use progressives, and visa-versa.

edit: I use both. Wouldn't mind a turret either....
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Old 12-24-2016, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAA View Post
quote: The OP specifically asked how much a turret press would increase production without going to a progressive


To be fair, the OP also stated that he was really looking into progressives. In other words, would a turret make enough difference in production rate, to forget about making the leap to a progressive.

This invites the argument (since I can't think of a better word at the moment) that many single press users have against those who use progressives, and visa-versa.

edit: I use both. Wouldn't mind a turret either....
I more specifically had in mind the above posts where the quality of brand name is being argued over.

I'm all for discussion. It's the argument that I can do without.
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Old 12-24-2016, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly77 View Post
I more specifically had in mind the above posts where the quality of brand name is being argued over.

I'm all for discussion. It's the argument that I can do without.
I agree. Liked your other post.
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Old 12-24-2016, 01:14 PM
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Nothing wrong with a Lee Turret Press. I started on a single stage in the early 80's. Then a turret press which I still use for load development. But once the load is a go the Hornady LNL AP comes into play. I don't try to load 500- 600 rounds a hour just a nice pace. So use your judgement and buy what fits your reloading needs.
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Old 12-24-2016, 02:29 PM
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I find both useful, I have a 3 hole Lee turret press that I've had since the '70's mounted on my bench next to the other brand. Most of my handloading is done on the one on the left in the picture, but the Lee still has a place. If I was doing long range rifle (which I'm not), I'd probably use a single stage.
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Old 12-24-2016, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bkreutz View Post
If I was doing long range rifle (which I'm not), I'd probably use a single stage.


I still use my single stage press for my deer rifle loads.

Each case is sized and trimmed, each powder charge is measured out by hand, etc.

I'm a lot more finicky with my rifle loads than with my bulk pistol ammo.



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Old 12-24-2016, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post
I currently use a turret for this reason... it's easy to process as much as you like and do some custom work at the same time, without having to do a tool head change.. maybe screw in a die or two

Progressive have an equal pull it's in the design of the leverage..at least that's how I remember mine.
Dillon 550. Works like an inverted turret. Load one at a time or load the shell plate & get one pull one round. Manual indexing means 100% control for custom work. The 550 really makes the turret press obsolete. Removable tool heads for fast caliber changes. A dead bang simple progressive.
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Old 12-24-2016, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly77 View Post
I more specifically had in mind the above posts where the quality of brand name is being argued over.

I'm all for discussion. It's the argument that I can do without.
I don't see anyone arguing over brand. Some of us just pointing out fact vs fantasy & best bang for you buck.
I think many ss reloaders look at any progressive, regardless of brand, as too complicated. Yet something like a 550 is as simple as any turret with more relaxing options for little more $$$.
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Old 12-24-2016, 04:32 PM
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Your right Hillbilly 77 its like car makes or brand it could go on forever.
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Old 12-24-2016, 04:44 PM
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I use and like the Lee classic turret press. I have several bases set up with different dies; that really helps speed set up time between calibers.
My output is 100 rounds per 2 hour session, but I really take my time. I check each case for powder height, and I use a separate RCBS powder thrower, although Lee makes a unit that goes on the flare die. I found that to have too much variation.
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Old 12-24-2016, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
Eh, it's a hobby most pursue with limited disposable income. If it were a professional tool I was using in a trade, spend away.
.
Even as a hobby, better tools make any job easier & more enjoyable. The cost thing always bothers me because reloading gear cost it is really small compared to cost of factory ammo. Guys will spend an hour trying to save $20 on 1000rds of ammo, still spending more than 1/3 of a good reloading setup. Just sayin, perspective.
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Old 12-25-2016, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Hooker View Post
Well said! An auto indexing LCT will give you 95% of the process control (and safety) of a single stage and an honest production rates of 4-5 rounds a minute. ( Figure 150 rounds an hour including set-up, refills, inspections etc.)
Personally, I don't like progressive presses for most reloading ( and sold mine off long ago.) With the turret, I see and feel every operation. I am part of the process. With a full progressive , there are 4-5 things going on at once so it's harder to see/feel when something goes south ( as it eventually will.)
Personally, I look at the LTC as the Chevy Truck of reloaders. Maybe not the biggest, badast and most expensive but as much ride as most will ever need.
I'm pretty interested in this thread. I started reloading brass about 3 years ago and made all the mistakes a person can make on a SS press. I know what a progressive press can do as I used to load 12ga for trap every week on one. Now that I have the basics down and understand the process it's probably time to move up. I'm loading about 10K a year of a wide assortment of cartridges, mostly 45 ACP, 357 and .223. I screw around with load development and bullets a lot.

I'm retired so have more time than money. I'm so cheap I scrounge range brass at my range. Some probably equate that to dumpster diving but I haven't bought a lot of brass since I started reloading. I don't buy any commercial ammo except 22LR. I'm more interested in getting my cost per round down than having the fastest machine on the planet. I realize for some time is a huge consideration, it was for me for a long time, but it just isn't anymore. I can see where a Dillon could be justified for some.

More and more it looks like a turret press is my best fit. I'm still trying to decide which one. I've had the same Chevy truck for 10 years, probably have it another 10 years.
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Old 12-25-2016, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Hooker View Post
Well said! An auto indexing LCT will give you 95% of the process control (and safety) of a single stage and an honest production rates of 4-5 rounds a minute. ( Figure 150 rounds an hour including set-up, refills, inspections etc.)
Personally, I don't like progressive presses for most reloading ( and sold mine off long ago.) With the turret, I see and feel every operation. I am part of the process. With a full progressive , there are 4-5 things going on at once so it's harder to see/feel when something goes south ( as it eventually will.)
Personally, I look at the LTC as the Chevy Truck of reloaders. Maybe not the biggest, badast and most expensive but as much ride as most will ever need.
I run a 550 & 650, the 550 is the progressive to have for those that wish for the control of a turret. The manual indexing lets you go as slow as molasses or twice as fast as a turret. If i had to sell off stuff, the 650 would probably go first.
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Old 12-25-2016, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by LostintheOzone View Post

I'm retired so have more time than money. I'm so cheap I scrounge range brass at my range. Some probably equate that to dumpster diving but I haven't bought a lot of brass since I started reloading.

More and more it looks like a turret press is my best fit. I'm still trying to decide which one. I've had the same Chevy truck for 10 years, probably have it another 10 years.
Every good reloader scrounges range brass. Its free, often once fired, why not save it from the brass bin? A turret is certainly an upgrade from a ss press, but dont let $250 diff put you off something like the 550. Forget speed, just the 75% less handle pulling would sell it for me.
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Old 12-26-2016, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Every good reloader scrounges range brass. Its free, often once fired, why not save it from the brass bin? A turret is certainly an upgrade from a ss press, but dont let $250 diff put you off something like the 550. Forget speed, just the 75% less handle pulling would sell it for me.
I agree with you 100% fred. Allow me to comment on the overall direction this thread has taken.

If one were to go to the top of this thread, read and understand the question being asked by the OP, then separate the comments offered that are basically testimonials to a specific brand of press there would be little in the way of actual useful information.

Looking a bit deeper, there are some who try to make the case that since their particular financial situation, their personal spending habits and/or their experience with a particular brand or type of tool is the only standard to measure productivity in this hobby. Just because all an individual wants or can spend for a press is $125.00 doesn't mean that everyone who is retired or has hours of free time on their hands or is committed to making high quality ammo shouldn't rejoice in the time savings that a progressive press offers.

A turret press, on a really good day, might have a practical yield of 200 rounds per hour for straight wall pistol ammo. A progressive without a case and/or bullet feeder will have a practical yield at least twice that amount. A lot of people look a theoretical yield and quote that number as gospel.

I know several handgun shooters that are in the 80s and use progressive presses. They have the time to slug it out with a turret or single stage. But their attitude is why spend the time if I don't have to?
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Old 12-26-2016, 05:23 PM
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To be honest something like a LCCT may be all that some people need. I have one. it works ok. The primer feeder thingie works after a fashion but boy it IS chintzy. I can say the primer feeder thingie on my T-7s are only marginally better. I don't care what people want to use...it is their money and their time. I sold reloading presses for over 50 years. Shotshell and metallic and the preponderance were single stage presses...but more than 70 % of those shooters came back to buy some type of progressive. Maybe not the fastest or the prettiest press on the block. Many shooters didn't have the time to spend with a single stage if they wanted to , lets say, shoot trap. So they ended up with some type of faster press. Some shooters were just too cheap to buy something faster..Some did not have the money to buy the best. I had 5 or 6 customers who really enjoyed shooting who could hardly afford to reload much less shoot competitively. They got their reloading supplies at my cost. I had a few customers who brought their messed up ammo to me. I gave it to one of 2 people to take down for components. They found a way. We all seem to if we really want to. I got started with Dillon when I bought a 1050 in 45 auto at an auction for 300 bucks. I still use single stage presses but I personally would rather load a years worth of my blow away handgun ammo in a few days than load all that ammo on a Rockchucker. Use what you want but the main reason to reload is to be able to have fun shooting it up..So...Have Fun!
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Old 12-26-2016, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas15 View Post
I agree with you 100% fred. Allow me to comment on the overall direction this thread has taken.

If one were to go to the top of this thread, read and understand the question being asked by the OP, then separate the comments offered that are basically testimonials to a specific brand of press there would be little in the way of actual useful information.

Looking a bit deeper, there are some who try to make the case that since their particular financial situation, their personal spending habits and/or their experience with a particular brand or type of tool is the only standard to measure productivity in this hobby. Just because all an individual wants or can spend for a press is $125.00 doesn't mean that everyone who is retired or has hours of free time on their hands or is committed to making high quality ammo shouldn't rejoice in the time savings that a progressive press offers.

A turret press, on a really good day, might have a practical yield of 200 rounds per hour for straight wall pistol ammo. A progressive without a case and/or bullet feeder will have a practical yield at least twice that amount. A lot of people look a theoretical yield and quote that number as gospel.

I know several handgun shooters that are in the 80s and use progressive presses. They have the time to slug it out with a turret or single stage. But their attitude is why spend the time if I don't have to?
There are some of us that simply can't afford the expense of a good progressive setup. When I went from a single stage to a turret press, that was what money I could afford to free up at the time. The turret press was a fraction of the investment of a progressive setup.

It isn't that some of us don't want a progressive. It isn't that some of us don't see the value of a progressive....
Some people simply can't justify the expense of one. My house is single income. We spend little in the way of "extras". My wife stays home with our daughters and I am the breadwinner. I can't always justify extra spending. I never complain about it. We like it this way. That is the decision we made for our family.

Will I buy a progressive press someday? I hope to. But in the mean time, to use disparaging adjectives like "tweener" to describe a type of press is of no value to anybody.

To crunch Fred's dollars and cents, he is right - the math certainly works out in the long run. For some of us, it is the initial investment that is, at least for now, out of reach.

And back to the OP's original question of
Quote:
How much does a turret press increase your output over a single stage, all thing considered.
the answer is, "A lot"
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Old 12-26-2016, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
I usually keep about 300 rounds of target ammo per caliber on hand at all times. When it is time to do a run, I am usually doing about 400-500 rounds and I can knock that out in one day, or two days with a few hours each day.
This is similar to my own reloading 'style' with a Rockchucker however I had been thinking about the possiblity of a turret press to streamline my reloading but then something called a 'Bonanza Co-AX press came my way free gratis - After cleaning it and learning how to properly adjust and set up the universal shell holder this press has really sped things up. Its quick change die system, spent primer catcher and the universal shellholder make the CO-AX one of the best SS presses I have ever used. Cost of them new (now by Forster) are somewhat high and one can get a good turret press for about 2/3 of the cost of a new CO-AX but it is a very good press, streamlined and fast for a SS.
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Old 12-26-2016, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly77 View Post
There are some of us that simply can't afford the expense of a good progressive setup. When I went from a single stage to a turret press, that was what money I could afford to free up at the time. The turret press was a fraction of the investment of a progressive setup.

It isn't that some of us don't want a progressive. It isn't that some of us don't see the value of a progressive....
Some people simply can't justify the expense of one. My house is single income. We spend little in the way of "extras". My wife stays home with our daughters and I am the breadwinner. I can't always justify extra spending. I never complain about it. We like it this way. That is the decision we made for our family.........
Hillbilly77 we (at least I) understand that some may have cash flow issues or good reasons not to buy a progressive press. I get that. For more than 10 years, from the time my oldest was born until the time my youngest was in 1st grade we lived on just my paycheck and during that time I could not afford to do much shooting period. And then it took a number of years to get our finances back on track. My youngest is now 23 and it has only been in the last 10 years that jumping into recreational shooting has even been a possibility for me.

But that is not relevant to the question at hand. The actual question isn't asking is the Lee classic turret press any good and it's not do you have a romantic relationship with your LCT. If that were the question then you would be on track.

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Old 12-26-2016, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Even as a hobby, better tools make any job easier & more enjoyable. The cost thing always bothers me because reloading gear cost it is really small compared to cost of factory ammo. Guys will spend an hour trying to save $20 on 1000rds of ammo, still spending more than 1/3 of a good reloading setup. Just sayin, perspective.
I enjoy my Lee. You can get a semi-complete kit for $200. There are some items I would add, but all the on-press stuff is there, plus a balance scale, reloading manual, etc.

The RL 550 goes for $400, minus the dies.

I would suggest that the best course of action would be to simply match your time, ammo demand, and intended loading style (flat production vs small batches and tinkering) to the press you want. In other words, I think it's more a matter of not spending more than you have to, instead of calculating cost.

Make no mistake, I'm not bashing Dillon or progressive setups in general. I'm quite happy with 100-150/hr out of the Lee--it's time well-spent. I don't feel like reloading sessions take forever, and I have fun doing it. But if I were shooting much more than I am now, I think I'd have at least a 550, maybe even a 650 to get the auto-indexing. The cost wouldn't inhibit me. But I'm not personally super-interested in getting one.

Now, if one of you fine gentlemen is so inclined, you could send me one for free and I'll gladly recant my earlier statements!
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Old 12-26-2016, 10:28 PM
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Hillbilly77 we (at least I) understand that some may have cash flow issues or good reasons not to buy a progressive press. I get that. For more than 10 years, from the time my oldest was born until the time my youngest was in 1st grade we lived on just my paycheck and during that time I could not afford to do much shooting period. And then it took a number of years to get our finances back on track. My youngest is now 23 and it has only been in the last 10 years that jumping into recreational shooting has even been a possibility for me.

But that is not relevant to the question at hand. The actual question isn't asking is the Lee classic turret press any good and it's not do you have a romantic relationship with your LCT. If that were the question then you would be on track.
I agree. The issue of money and/or finances wasn't relevant to the original question. That came up later.

The original post was this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
I use a singe stage Rockchucker. Let's say I wanted to increase my output without going to a progressive. How much does a turret press increase your output over a single stage, all thing considered. i.e. changing calibers and making adjustments as well as better production. Right now I make a few hundred rounds/month.

I'm really looking at progressives, but I'd like to know this before making the 'leap'.
He specifically asked how much faster a turret press is than a single stage.
The short answer to that question is "A lot."
The other poster then started talking about money, including how much his time is worth. And you and I both agree with his point.

Then you posted this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas15 View Post
Looking a bit deeper, there are some who try to make the case that since their particular financial situation...
I was simply offering a real world explanation as to why somebody may not take the leap and buy a more expensive setup.

I don't have a "romantic relationship" with my turret press.
I bought it because it would be faster than my single stage and I couldn't afford something more expensive.

I like it because it works.
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Old 12-26-2016, 11:48 PM
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FWIW, I bought my LCT specifically because it was a "tweener".

I wanted something faster than a SS, but didn't (and still don't) feel the need to produce 400+ rounds per hour.

I do see the need for quick change overs though because I load 6 calibers and generally only load 200-300 rounds of one caliber before switching to another. Having multiple affordable turret plates set up with multiple die sets works for me.

And yes, the LCT setup is significantly faster than a SS. 100-150 rounds per hour is a good comfortable pace.

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Old 12-27-2016, 01:18 AM
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Make no mistake, I'm not bashing Dillon or progressive setups in general. I'm quite happy with 100-150/hr out of the Lee--it's time well-spent. I don't feel like reloading sessions take forever, and I have fun doing it. But if I were shooting much more than I am now, I think I'd have at least a 550, maybe even a 650 to get the auto-indexing. The cost wouldn't inhibit me. But I'm not personally super-interested in getting one.
I wasn't all that super-interested either. My wife was, and convinced me. Went for the Dillon 650, and couldn't be happier about the decision.
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  #97  
Old 12-27-2016, 01:23 AM
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Well thought out ss reloading can yield 75rds per hour but you ate busting it. A turret can double that. Is tha significant? To me no. So only the end user can define significant which in Turn is talking about time spent reloading. So some of us offer the other alternatives. Buying multiple presses at $100 a pop really doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but your time & $$$.
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:01 AM
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Do any of these turret or progressive presses use priority dies.

I have RCBS, Hornady and Lee dies and would have to be able to use those in any upgrade.

Thanks.
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
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Do any of these turret or progressive presses use priority dies.

I have RCBS, Hornady and Lee dies and would have to be able to use those in any upgrade.

Thanks.
From my understanding, all brands of dies use the same threads so you can use any die in any brand press.
I load 9MM and 45 Auto on my turret press. My 9MM dies are the Hornady 3-die set with a regular expanding die. When I set up for the turret press for 9MM I had to buy a powder-through expanding die to make the most of the press design. I also added a separate crimp die because I prefer to seat and crimp in 2 steps. My .45 Auto is the Lee 4-die set already had the powder-through expanding die when I bought it.
I haven't used a progressive press but I assume the steps (and required tooling) would be similar.
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Old 12-27-2016, 11:23 AM
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Priority? Never heard the term. but I assume you mean brand specific..So the answer is you can pretty much use any dies. I must admit I have used most brands on my Dillon in the past. I do feel that the Dillon dies are made to work on their progressives... and they do seem a little easier to work with. As stated by the previous poster the Lee needs a specific die or two. I run the LCC turret with a Lee 4 die set. I am not an elitist but I consider Lee dies to be somewhat poorly made. Personally despise the rubber O rings. The Lee Collet dies seem to work very well for rifle. I have seemed to have more troubles with Hornady.also
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