I believe the Dillon square deal requires proprietary dies. You have to order a conversion kit that is caliber specific and includes the dies for that caliber.

AND while very true my experience has shown most of the proponents of progressives are one of the following:

A relatively new gun owner, most likely of the 'black gun' genre who thinks reloading will cut his costs dramatically and believes he 'needs' the volume of ammo only a progressive can deliver.

A longer time gun owner. with possibly a variety of guns who wants to get into reloading and sees progressives as the 'modern' way to reload and has been a victim of the illusion single stage reloading is outdated and not applicable anymore.

Trolls who do not and most likely will not ever reload and just need something new to 'stir the pot' with.

Those who I know who have progressives are largely in part competition shooters who regularly shoot large quantities of ammo. Based on the numbers of the late model progressives I see up for sale as opposed to SS equipment I believe these types have gotten in over their head with progressives as a first-time reloading experience.

If you compare the number of long-term reloaders who still have (and use) original equipment they started with as opposed to those who dove into a progressive and then put them up for sale its probably like 100 to 1. The sheer numbers of long term reloaders with original or moderately upgraded equipment over the years PROVES the relative validity and PRACTICALITY of single stage reloading.

And............I can only assume the writer of these reasons, does not own a progressive, and is making a thin attempt to justify. What a bunch of bull!

Added: When it comes to the internet, something I can't stand, is when someone uses psychology, in an attempt to justify a position, by making others feel they made the wrong decision because they weren't smart enough to know better......

The above list, just seems to leave out various other reasons..........

I tinkered with high performance airplanes, for a good part of my life. Perhaps I appreciate the ingenuity that goes into a Dillon. I also have the mechanical aptitude to deal with machinery that's a bit more complicated than simple. Fanboy yes......................even if I think the term and it's use is juvenile.

Yes - I do NOT own a progressive ONLY because I cannot justify the need and have been, and am currently served well with my two SS presses. Progressives certainly have their place but are not for everybody as evidenced buy the numbers I see of relatively late models up for sale.

You make a lot of assumptions for a guy that doesn't/hasn't reloaded on a progressive?? This is the 21st century, there is no need to use old tools & old methods unless one just wants to be nostalgic. Most of us older guys started on a ss press, what was available then, like 40yr ago. Today, no real reason to stick with that unless you just like to go slow & spend a lot of time reloading.
For anyone shooting more than 100rds a week handgun, just pulling the handle 400x is pretty ridiculous when you can get the same amount of ammo with 103 pulls. So go fast or slow, makes no diff, but you will do less work on any good progressive.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Hoo BOY, you really stepped in it now!

And are Still available now - I started loading in about 1975 so that should establish my approximate age category. I am simply placing myself in the SAME category as the many others who have responded they are still loading SS and it is working for them and progressives are simply not for everybody.
I have assisted and observed loading on a progressive and it was easy to see I did not have the need for one.
I definitely average more than a 100 rounds a week with several different calibers from 9mm to various rifles. Since I can shoot nearly anytime I do not have the need to load 1000s of rounds for what might need to be a potential lengthy trip to a range for some. My shooting is informal and frequent - sometimes only a 100 or less rounds - but that might be two to three times a week.

I am NOT disputing the speed and usefulness of a progressive for the right reasons but I simply do not posses those reasons (or needs) so I am, like the others, who report being served well by their SS equipment and will post nothing further on this issue.

My wife and I are into IPSC/IDPA/CAS. I load .38, 9mm, .45 ACP, .44 Spl., 44-40 and .44 Russian. We shoot indoors weekly during the winter and outdoors when the snow is off the ground.
Depending upon the season and the matches we attend, we burn up to 400 rds per week easily, sometimes more. All reloading supplies are bought in bulk.

When I do a run in a specific calibre, I do a minimum of 500 rds, 100 per session. I've learned that is my limit before my attention wanders.

My original 450 is dedicated for .38 Spl./.357. All other calibres on a 550B with removable tool heads. Even so, you have to change the primer seater from small to large as required, change the shell plate and locator pins and install a tool head with the required dies already adjusted.

This takes time. I feel I need another 550B that will be dedicated to the .44 calibres.

Anyone who does not value his time is more than welcome to grind out rds on a single stage press. I would rather shoot than reload.

I'm using an RCBS Rockchucker for rifle ammo and a Dillon 550B for 9mm, .38/357 and .45 ACP. The Dillon seats primers quite smoothly but it is a nuisance to switch out the primer feed.

Almost everyone has their knickers in a knot now that .45 ACP cases are available in both large and small primer sizes, necessitating a careful inspection when loading. If I could get enough small primed .45 ACP cases, I could switch between calibers without swapping out the primer feed.

Primer seating on the Rockchucker could be easier as the press does not produce sufficient leverage at the top of the stroke. I solved this problem with a Lee Autoprime which requires primer seating as a separate operation but it seats them so smoothly by seating at the top of the press but at the bottom for the stroke.

I teach reloading on ss presses, because it is about proper die setup. I still use a ss press on occasion for small runs of rifle ammo. I have been reloading & shooting for 40yrs now. I am well past the 300k rd mark so general reloading isn't fun or relaxing for me. A good progressive allows me to spend less time general reloading & more time doing say experimental stuff or bullet casting or bullet swaging, things I actually do enjoy doing. So while I do teach on a ss press, it is NOT my recommendation for a handgun reloader, most of my students.
A turret makes a good intro press, but most reloaders will end up buying the progressive anyway. So buy the progressive. Use it as in inverted turret for as long as you like. Hell, even use it as a ss press if you like, but when you do want to make the jump into a progressive, you already own it. I love options & not a fan of a tool that does one thing if I can get a tool that does multiple things. It's all perspective & opinion, but smack talk from those that have NOT used the equip just isn't very credible.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Then there's this setup, then next step from here is a motor drive (I can hear everyone fainting now)

Attached Images

Mr bullet 4.JPG (59.1 KB, 42 views)

I have and use a Rockchucker and a Hornady LNL with no case or bullet feeders. Lots of times I will use the LNL as a turrent and only send one case around until it's done if I'm setting up a new load or just loading a few to test.
I am looking at getting a Dillion and I think it will be a square deal that's set up for 9mm. I know several that have them as well as LNL or a 650 and say they use the square deal a lot for 9mm.

I once bought a SDB in an estate. It was set up in 9mm. I sold it because I didn't shoot 9mm at the time. I wish I had kept it now...even though I am not loading 9mm at this time. It is not economically worthwhile to load 9mm for me. Not much room on a SDB but they have a good reputation. I also don't use a Rockchucker...but I do use the older A2.LOL!

That's my point. Although I don't understand the bolded part, unless you're suggesting that the progressive is something one would inevitably want, which I don't agree with. But you did hit on convenience. I think it's a lot simpler to run a turret than a single-stage, and more convenient. If you have to stop halfway through a session with a turret or a progressive, you just have an odd box of ammo and a hopper to empty. If you're on a single-stage, that's a bit more of a problem.

But yeah, I think going from 75 an hour to a very comfortable 150 or so is a big deal. I also think that going from 150 to 400 an hour (turret to progressive) is a big deal.

But for somebody like me, that's just a waste of capacity. I'm not making large batches of ammo. I think the most I have of any particular load is 100 or 150 rounds (maybe a max of 200 per-cartridge). Aside from a couple .38 Special loads, everything else is in a near-constant state of tinker.

That said, I see where you're coming from. After loading as long as you (you curmudgeonly old dog ), you've settled on the loads you like. If I were in that position, I'd want a progressive, too. Knock out a year's worth of loading in a couple days over the winter.

The comment is for those that buy 4-5 Lee LM or SDB & leave them set up, that I don't understand. I have a huge reloading are, 8'-16', 10' bench, I can only get three presses on it with room to work.
I am not saying everyone should go out & sell there turret or ss press. The comment are from a very exp reloader to guys upgrading or starting out. To me, a turret isn't worth even the $100 to just double my ss output. Plus I am still doing the identical amount of work/handle pulling. So a progressive w/o case feeder is a more logical cost step up from a ss press. Again, use it fast or slow, doesn't matter, you are still doing less work. After 300k rds, you will appreciate not pulling the handle so much. What is that 900k-1.2m handle pulls?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Makes my shoulder & wrist hurt just thinking about it.
FWIW, I don't sit down & load 1000s of rounds. I rarely reload for more than an hour. That is about where my attention span starts to go with repetitive motions. So the other benefit of the progressive is being able to give 100% attention to detail for a shorter period of time & still have a decent amount of ammo at the end. I am quite happy to slip off to the man cave for 30m & load 200-300rds of ammo once a week. I then reserve my other "free" time to do things like cast & coat my own bullets. More time consuming but oddly more satisfying.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I have my progressive presses mounted on boards. When I get done loading the caliber..I unscrew the whole thing from the bench and put it under same. Only 4 screws or bolts with a screw gun. Heck I tried powder coating bullets and while they work well it just takes more time than I wanty to spend for blow away ammo. I do some powder coating but only for specialty bullets that I cast. I have gotten so many plated and cast bullets at auctions estate sales and gun shows I don't even cast blow away pistol bullets any longer. Well at least until what I have are gone. I also do as Fred said. I load for an hour or maybe 1 1/2 hours. But the 1050 has gone through 800-1200 rounds. So 5 hours or maybe 6 I have near 5000 rounds. . No I'm not rich but the presses I have were pretty much all bought used for much less than retail. If you look you can find them too. I have a Hornady LnL progressive I recently bought ready to go with dies powder measure etc in 45 auto. I haven't used it and probably won't as I have a 1050 in 45 auto. Does every one NEED a 1050..or a LnL progressive? No of course not. After all these years I don't like reloading but I like the cost savings and especially the saved time... And as Fred said..the saved work. Yep I still use single stage machines and Turrets...but only for rifle loads that are loaded in small lots. And I never lose money on presses. Any body need a RC in good shape?? Cheap?? Not an offer to sell one here. But the profit I make however small helps to pay for my reloading expenses. And luckily I have the range set up here on the ranch to shoot. Even a short pistol range(40 yds) out of my heated garage. I intended to be able to shoot when I moved here all those years ago. My progressives enable me to have more time having fun..and less time preparing for it. Just my perspective

I don't mind the handle-pulling, but I think I'm no more than half your age. So call me again in 300k rounds and see where my position on handle-pulling is! I also don't shoot as much as you, I think. A couple hours a month, split between actual reloading and maintenance/study, keeps me fed.

What I hate is extra operations. I loaded my first couple boxes in single-stage mode, batch processing. I hated it. Then the spring on the small primer trigger for my primer feed bent. I loaded a couple boxes of .38 without it, and hated that, too. I definitely think I'd hate the Lee Turret if it didn't have auto-indexing.

That's what I feel the big difference between the SS and the turret is. Not just the rounds-per-hour.

Actually maintaining the rates quoted on any machine is very hard to do so that is why I do short periods on even the high end progressives. I keep 20 primer tubes filled for the 1050s. I put a couple hundred cases(spray lubed)in plastic bags and keep 10 of them handy..bullets powder..all takes time from reloading. Case inspection I do sometimes while watching TV. That part is time consuming. I finished 12000 or so 223s not too long ago. Will start loading all of them soon. The average reloading session for any of us reloading people has more time involved than many people think... At least to do it right. I'm starting to become annoyed at those companies that went to 45 auto SPPs. Every hand movement adds time. I have hydraulic machines for my Spolar shotshell machines and no longer use them. Too many things to keep an eye on.

I'm not reading all three pages of posts but from skimming though I'm not seeing many serious answers to the original question.

"How much does a turret press increase your output over a single stage, all thing considered. i.e. changing calibers and making adjustments as well as better production."

Honest answer, it depends on the turret setup which depends on options available to each brand. The reason the Lee Classic Turret is mentioned so much is it has the most going on compared to the rest. The RCBS, Lyman, and Redding turrets are all nearly clones of each other in function. You can sort of easily swap turrets on them so doing a caliber change is easy enough but not as easy as the Lee. You can prime on the press for all of them but again I feel like Lee wins with ease of refilling primers. You can drop powder on the press of any of them but once again Lee's dies can auto drop the powder for you with their powder measures. So it's not so much the number of times you pull the lever so much as it's the consolidation of efforts. Single stage you have to break most of it up and you most certainly have to touch the case over and over again. With the turret you save that bit of time with setting the case and just going through the turrets motions until you have a completed cartridge in front of you. And with the Lee version being auto indexing you don't even have to manually rotate to the next station. So how much time to do save? Obviously not as much moving from single stage to progressive but it's significant enough that I feel like it was worth it and don't begin to regret the purchase.

Adjustments to the dies is I feel like another huge win for Lee. The adjustments are done with your fingers instead of tools. And after many years now of use they still work as well as the day I bought them. FYI if you do buy the Lee turret then you can use any brand dies but you may need to buy Lee's lock rings as the rings need to be small enough to fit the turret.

Better production? As in more output or better product? You will definitely make more ammo in a shorter amount of time than a single stage. Better product, I think you will make the same quality as you would a single stage. I will say the Redding design (and I think the Lyman has this as well) has a non tilting turret so that may be the best of them but the Lee turret slightly lifts each time although it's the same exact amount each time. In theory, the Redding may be superior but you had better be using a micrometer on your targets to see the difference.

My Classic turret is still to this day my most used reloading press just because it's so easy to setup and get running. Heck, a caliber conversion takes longer to explain how it's done than to just do it. Bottom line, yes any turret will be significantly faster than single stage batch reloading and the Lee design offers the most ease of use with handy options that speed it up even more.

I guess the bottom line is how much are you going to shoot per day, per month, per year? How much are you willing to spend on a progressive press?T there is the extras that increase the cost of the press. How many calibers are you going to load for?

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Carpriver.

Where? I'll be right over and buy a third Dillon if the price is right? Thank you for the "Good Buy Alert"

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S&WHF 366

I a single stage for rifle ammo and a turret press for handgun ammo. The turret press save time involved in changing and adjusting dies. The only way to really speed up reloading is to add a powder measure assembly and add powder automatically during the case belling, then seat and crimp the bullet. I haven't done this because I like to verify the weight of every 10th charge and look in every case before I seat a bullet. There are two good progressive presses; the Hornady and the Dillon. Both are very fast once set up, (500 to 800 rounds an hour), but set up and adjustment is time consuming. A friend of mine is a serious competitive shooter, he has two progressives, one for 9mm and one for 45ACP. They're set up an he leaves them that way. Every once in a while he checks the loaded OAL, and refills the powder hopper when it gets down to 1/4 full. He has about $2,500 invested in the two presses but he sometimes fires more rounds in a week than I do in a year.

I'm perfectly happy with my mundane Lee Classic Turret.

It's a nice step up from a SS IMO. Not a huge step up, but nice.

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-Mike-

Cabin Cowboy,

This is how I do it on my turret. I have an autodrum powder measure on the expander die.

I leave the shell in the turret for all operations except one. That is weighing every 10th. I pull the empty primered case, tare the case weight on my electronic scale, throw the powder and reweigh the case. This gives me the weight of the powder alone. The case with the powder goes back in the press and continues operations.

For shallow cases, like 9mm, I can see into the case far enough to determine powder level with the case in the press. With deep cases, like .38/.357, I use a powder cop die. Every case goes up into the powder cop, even if I have weighed it. I can easily see deviations from the adjusted norm. Yes, it means I take one of the 4 positions in my turret. I can either seat an crimp in one die, or decap/size in a separate operation before loading. I do this for my .357 going into my lever rifle. I had some occasional feed issues when the rifle was new, and felt an FCD might make them chamber easier. I use the .38 turret and batch decap/size all my .357s prior to a loading session. Adds a little time to the process, but overall, I am still way ahead of the game with the turret over the SS.

I've thought about going back to seat and crimp with one die in .357 and add the decap die to the turret. I don't think I will have feed issues at this stage of the game without using the FCD.

I have a 6 hole Redding Turret.. I keep 4 of my most used seating dies. The remaining 2 are used for sizing and flaring.

My usage: I pull out a gun, pull out a box of brass that's sized primed and ready to load. Set the powder charge and load a few to go shoot.
Then I grab another gun and repeat.. Since I walk about 100 yards to go shoot, a turret suits my needs perfectly.

I've been reloading for about 40 years. I'm weighing the possibilities of going a step up from a single stage. I could probably use the S.S. right on down the line, but I'm having trouble with my joints and stroking 3x to make one bullet is kind of wearing on me. I like the angle of the Dillon, too. I could maybe raise up my single stage to be easier on me. Also, since I've gotten into semi autos, I find that I'm burning up more ammo, therefore making more and all the strokin' is getting to me, mainly my right arm. One reason that I think I'd hold out for a Dillon is that I don't want to buy myself trouble.

Like chain saws. You tinker with them a while, the cut like crazy for about 1/2 hour, tinker for a while, cut like crazy for about 1/2 hour and that's the whole day.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

rwsmith's post on considering a turret press got me to thinking about the same thing. Rule3 then had a very informative link posted, well I ordered the Lee Classic turret last night from Midway. I have loaded on the Rock Chuckker for years and will continue to keep it handy, already use the Hornady electronic powder measure and RCBS bench mounted primer tool so didn't order those add on's, probably will at a later date. See, us old dogs can learn new tricks...if pushed a little!

I've been thinking too. Found a 650 on sale locally so I have convinced myself to buy the darn thing. It is set up for 44 spec/mag. So gotta go get it tomorrow. No case feeder but I have another on the other Dillons
Digging all the 44 sp and mag cases out today. Know I have at least a thousand... Have fun with that new Turret. You'll enjoy the extra reloading power. As ol Darth Vader said give yourself up to the power of the Dark Side. Next a LnL or a Dillon. And as Rod Serling said... next stop... the Twilight Zone