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Old 12-25-2016, 01:08 AM
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Default Build a Nyclad

With all the coated offerings available today, how would you build a modern version of the old Nyclad? I still have (most of) a box in the ammo room that was loaded in a late 80s model 37 my wife carried for a while. Seems like they were very soft lead, fully coated in nylon and boasted good penetration/expansion in non +p velocities. I know they had a +p version as well. Build that one too while you're at it.

In your opinion, was the Nyclad (or your recipe for a modern version) superior to the old FBI load? How about better than the cartridge with one of the best track records ever--Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +p?


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Old 12-25-2016, 01:10 AM
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Cast a soft lead HP, powder coat it, you have basically a Nyclad. Pick any caliber, 800fps up to say 1200fps.
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Old 12-25-2016, 01:55 AM
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A 130GR HP COATED WITH SOFT LEAD ONLY NEEDS 830 FPS.

Just waiting for a company to see the light.
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Old 12-25-2016, 03:02 AM
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Default Coated HPSWC

The Nyclad is really a soft HPSWC coated with polymer, which today can be applied by the user or the manufacturer. What I don't know is the exact hardness of the lead. I have a few Nyclads around still. Maybe I can compare to other bullets that I have.
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Old 12-25-2016, 04:57 AM
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I have been thinking about making some powder coated bullets. I already have a 30 year old Lee mold for a 146 HP/SWC. So I'll cast some in pure lead. Harbor freight has all the equipment I don't have and powder coating in Black, White, Red, and Yellow.

Dose Granger sell coatings? Maybe a nice bright Blue?

I know that Nyclad's could be had in a full wadcutter version also and assumed they were about 650 fps but never read the actual velocity.

Once I start I have to find a 225 grain HP/SWC mold for 45 cal. And that will be a whole new can of worms.

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Old 12-26-2016, 04:09 PM
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Somewhat strange that the Federal Nyclad was known to be "soft" lead and expanded reasonably well from snubbies whereas their iteration of the FBI load was thought to come in 2nd behind the Remington product. Mas Ayoob (and others) always recommended the Remington as it had a better track record--probably due to the composition of the lead.


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Old 12-27-2016, 01:40 AM
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with the proliferation of coatings ... Nyclad kinda lost any special magic it may have once had.
Nyclad was simply a powder coated bullet.
you can get nylon coating powder, though it seems to be by the 55 gal drum.
Ive worked with several ranging from cheap harbor freight stuff on up to teflon ... any difference is slight in general use.
theres really nothing that nylon can offer that can make it significantly different.
if your looking to equal the old nyclad ... go for it, theres nothing to stop the achievement
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Old 12-27-2016, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
I have been thinking about making some powder coated bullets. I already have a 30 year old Lee mold for a 146 HP/SWC. So I'll cast some in pure lead. Harbor freight has all the equipment I don't have and powder coating in Black, White, Red, and Yellow.

Dose Granger sell coatings? Maybe a nice bright Blue?

I know that Nyclad's could be had in a full wadcutter version also and assumed they were about 650 fps but never read the actual velocity.

Once I start I have to find a 225 grain HP/SWC mold for 45 cal. And that will be a whole new can of worms.

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powderbuythepound and allpowderpaints can give you enough options to confuse you to the sidelines
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Old 12-27-2016, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
I have been thinking about making some powder coated bullets. I already have a 30 year old Lee mold for a 146 HP/SWC. So I'll cast some in pure lead. Harbor freight has all the equipment I don't have and powder coating in Black, White, Red, and Yellow.

Dose Granger sell coatings? Maybe a nice bright Blue?

I know that Nyclad's could be had in a full wadcutter version also and assumed they were about 650 fps but never read the actual velocity.

Once I start I have to find a 225 grain HP/SWC mold for 45 cal. And that will be a whole new can of worms.

Ivan
I've been using Smokes powder over on castboolits.com for several years now. A lot better than the cheap harbor freight powder, it's finer and sticks better than the larger clumper hf powders. I also never used a pc gun, always used the free/cheap #5 containers and the black airsoft bb's.

The dry powder coat powder is a polyester
The wet/paint coatings are a polyurethane

Hi quality Powder for DT or Spraying bullets

41 pages of reading and how to contact smoke.
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:31 AM
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Fill that deep hp with silicone. Expands, then the expanded portion sheers off allowing a slug with large/flat meplat to continue on.
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:43 AM
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What coated bullet manufacturer offers a soft SWCHP that would reliably expand at standard snub velocities?

Loaded to +p may somewhat lessen the need for the softest lead. Or as others have mentioned--forget expansion and load SWC without HP.



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Old 12-27-2016, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
The Nyclad is really a soft HPSWC coated with polymer, which today can be applied by the user or the manufacturer. What I don't know is the exact hardness of the lead. I have a few Nyclads around still. Maybe I can compare to other bullets that I have.
It was actually Nylon, quite a bit thicker than the PC many of us use today. I have PC some LHP, just haven't tested them yet, but I expect they perform quite well at the vel levels tested, like any LHP, just without the smoke & mess.
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Old 12-27-2016, 04:39 PM
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There are no "magic" bullets. For a short snub use the Speer short Barrel bullets if you can find them.

Shot placement is everything.

Of course you could dip the bullet in molten pure silver and then you may have something.


JMO but I think the Hi Tek Coating polymer would be the closest product available today.
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Old 12-27-2016, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
There are no "magic" bullets. For a short snub use the Speer short Barrel bullets if you can find them.

Shot placement is everything.

Of course you could dip the bullet in molten pure silver and then you may have something.


JMO but I think the Hi Tek Coating polymer would be the closest product available today.


Agreed about the Gold Dots--I always keep factory Speer 135 grain +p in my snubs used for SD. I do, however, like tinkering with different loads and the snub SD stuff has been on my mind lately.


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Old 12-28-2016, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
There are no "magic" bullets. For a short snub use the Speer short Barrel bullets if you can find them.

Shot placement is everything.

Of course you could dip the bullet in molten pure silver and then you may have something.


JMO but I think the Hi Tek Coating polymer would be the closest product available today.
Hi-Tek, even powder coating is far thinner than the Nyclad. It was actually a nylon jacket with core swaged into it. You could do several coatings with PC but not sure it is a real benefit to be thicker than say 0.002".
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Old 12-28-2016, 04:20 PM
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There was the lighter 125gr Nyclad that was made for the lighter recoil in the J frame short barrels. It worked in most
cases, enough to stop the threat or at least get away.

I was just thinking that a 130gr might penetrate a little more
and still be in the ball park for a light 38 full loads with out
getting into the +P area, of heavy recoil.

Just looking for a light recoil load that will do the job.
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:33 PM
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Well you guys have peaked my interest. I have a box of the old Nyclad .38 Special around here somewhere that I may have to dig out and chronograph in different barrel lengths. IIRC, they are standard pressure 125 grain.
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Old 12-31-2016, 02:59 PM
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I loaded many thousand nyclad bullets back in the early 80's. The 158 SWC HP was my favorite accuracy bullet.
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Old 01-01-2017, 03:35 AM
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I have a dew boxes Nyclad .38 Special ammo but I can't find it in me to use it. I tested in in 4 Snub nose revolvers and it was was accurate in all of them.

I carryover FBI load in my Chief's Special and Speer 135gr GDHP ammo in my M442 because both work well and those are most accurate in my revolvers.
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Old 01-01-2017, 04:21 AM
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Default Soft lead HPs will expand....

A soft lead SWC hollow point will expand at lower velocities so load the velocity that is best for you. As long as it doesn't bounce off.
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Old 01-09-2017, 10:17 PM
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I don't know how the old Nyclads compare to other defensive 38 Spcl. ammo, but to satisfy my own curiosity went out and chronographed Nyclads in a snub nosed revolver today.

I used a S&W 642 revolver with ~2" barrel to test the Federal 125 grain standard pressure Nyclads and Federal 129 grain +P Hydra-shoks.
The 125 grain Nyclads averaged 765 FPS, the +P 129 grain Hydra-Shoks averaged 763 FPS. I've not done any gel testing, but suspect the soft lead Nyclads might actually expand at these low velocities.

Just for the heck of it I tested some 9MM 124 grain +P HST ammo in my S&W 940 revolver with ~2" barrel. The 9MM +P 124 HST was the round most similar to the .38 Spcl. +P 129 Hydra-Shok that I happened to have on hand. The 9MM 124 +P HST averaged 1195 FPS.

I would personally be comfortable carrying the old Nyclads in a little 5-shot .38 revolver. None of the 38 ammo I've tested seems like Thunder and Lightning when fired in these little short-barreled guns. Ballistically, the 9MM HST in the little 940 revolver was far superior to even the +P .38 Spcl. I knew the 9 would be superior to the 38, but admit I was surprised by how much. I would think that factory Nyclad velocities could easily be duplicated in hand loads....
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock185 View Post
I don't know how the old Nyclads compare to other defensive 38 Spcl. ammo, but to satisfy my own curiosity went out and chronographed Nyclads in a snub nosed revolver today.

I used a S&W 642 revolver with ~2" barrel to test the Federal 125 grain standard pressure Nyclads and Federal 129 grain +P Hydra-shoks.
The 125 grain Nyclads averaged 765 FPS, the +P 129 grain Hydra-Shoks averaged 763 FPS. I've not done any gel testing, but suspect the soft lead Nyclads might actually expand at these low velocities.

Just for the heck of it I tested some 9MM 124 grain +P HST ammo in my S&W 940 revolver with ~2" barrel. The 9MM +P 124 HST was the round most similar to the .38 Spcl. +P 129 Hydra-Shok that I happened to have on hand. The 9MM 124 +P HST averaged 1195 FPS.

I would personally be comfortable carrying the old Nyclads in a little 5-shot .38 revolver. None of the 38 ammo I've tested seems like Thunder and Lightning when fired in these little short-barreled guns. Ballistically, the 9MM HST in the little 940 revolver was far superior to even the +P .38 Spcl. I knew the 9 would be superior to the 38, but admit I was surprised by how much. I would think that factory Nyclad velocities could easily be duplicated in hand loads....


Interesting numbers you clocked there. Somewhat surprised that the Nyclads were faster than the (supposed)+p Hydro shocks. Agreed that the 9mm is simply a superior round.

The only box of Nyclads left on my shelves is 158 grain RN. Bought back in the early 90s, but not sure why RN--probably all the LGS had at the time. They were for M37 of the same vintage--not rated +p. Still would be interested in working some up to real +p levels using coated, soft 158 HPs. It would be a good round for my family of snubs.


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Old 01-11-2017, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock185 View Post
I don't know how the old Nyclads compare to other defensive 38 Spcl. ammo, but to satisfy my own curiosity went out and chronographed Nyclads in a snub nosed revolver today.

I used a S&W 642 revolver with ~2" barrel to test the Federal 125 grain standard pressure Nyclads and Federal 129 grain +P Hydra-shoks.
The 125 grain Nyclads averaged 765 FPS, the +P 129 grain Hydra-Shoks averaged 763 FPS. I've not done any gel testing, but suspect the soft lead Nyclads might actually expand at these low velocities.

Just for the heck of it I tested some 9MM 124 grain +P HST ammo in my S&W 940 revolver with ~2" barrel. The 9MM +P 124 HST was the round most similar to the .38 Spcl. +P 129 Hydra-Shok that I happened to have on hand. The 9MM 124 +P HST averaged 1195 FPS.

I would personally be comfortable carrying the old Nyclads in a little 5-shot .38 revolver. None of the 38 ammo I've tested seems like Thunder and Lightning when fired in these little short-barreled guns. Ballistically, the 9MM HST in the little 940 revolver was far superior to even the +P .38 Spcl. I knew the 9 would be superior to the 38, but admit I was surprised by how much. I would think that factory Nyclad velocities could easily be duplicated in hand loads....
You are not testing similar cartridges. The 9mm has close to double the pressure limits as the .38 Special +P. If you want to do a fair comparison compare the 9mm and .357 Magnum since both have a max pressure of 35,000 PSI.

Just a note, higher velocities do not translate into a superior cartridge. Higher velocity is just higher velocity.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:50 AM
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Arch, I was not trying to do a "fair comparison". I was just testing some ammo I had on hand in revolvers of similar barrel length and sharing the results here. Yes, I understand that the .357 is ballistically superior to the 9MM. You might find though, that in ~2" barrels, the .357 with 125 grain bullets, is not not as ballistically superior to the 9MM with a similar weight bullet as some might assume. And any superiority the 357 may display is, as you say, "just higher velocity".
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock185 View Post
Arch, I was not trying to do a "fair comparison". I was just testing some ammo I had on hand in revolvers of similar barrel length and sharing the results here. Yes, I understand that the .357 is ballistically superior to the 9MM. You might find though, that in ~2" barrels, the .357 with 125 grain bullets, is not not as ballistically superior to the 9MM with a similar weight bullet as some might assume. And any superiority the 357 may display is, as you say, "just higher velocity".
Groo here
The thing to remember is No auto round can match a revolver
round in construction/ size/depth of the hollow point.
The auto bullet MUST be made strong enough to feed from the mag/slid
up the feed ramp/and slam into the top of the chamber without deformation.
Where as a revolver round needs to only to make it out the barrel and to the target.
Look at the old REM SJHP bullet, It has a LOT of lead uncovered.
This allows faster deformation then most any auto bullet.
And for most part, a faster deformation will do more damage.AKA
alarger hole for the distance traveled.
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Old 01-13-2017, 01:32 AM
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Groo, I appreciate yours and Arch's comments. I was not attempting to prove any type ammunition is superior, just testing velocities of some ammo on hand that had been mentioned in this thread, Nyclad. I decided to chronograph a couple of other loads while at the range. I understand that some old tec. ammunition did have large hollow points, and/or considerable exposed lead. I used a fair amount of it myself. Fortunately though, modern ammunition for semi-automatic calibers has evolved and been shown to expand effectively without the need of exposed lead SJHP designs such as the old Remington loads. I would be comfortable carrying a revolver with SJHP type ammunition, or modern ammunition in a semi-auto, even if there was no exposed lead. For instance, something like the Federal HST ammunition for semi-auto calibers. Again, not trying to prove anything or sway anyone's opinion, just sharing results.....ymmv
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