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Old 12-29-2016, 11:12 AM
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Default .22 hornet with small pistol primers

Have been working to get the old Winchester model 43 to print less than an inch and a quarter at 100 yards. Tried the conventional stuff, change bullets, seating depth, powder -

Read that a number of people have used small pistol primers and have had better ignition with better groups. Made up ten rounds of 40 grain Sierra hornet bullets with 9 grains of 2400 and a small pistol primer.

First round went down range with a belch of smoke and the smell of wood in the fire place. Checked the fired round and found a pierced primer. Never had issues with small rifle primers, did not have any issues with rifle primer loads on this putting as well.

Lesson learned - don't listen to all the stuff posted on loading forums. Primers are called rifle primers for a reason. They do have a slightly thicker cup and hold up better to rifle pressures.
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Old 12-29-2016, 11:27 AM
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Another issue you are going to encounter is the 43's bore is a .223 versus .224. If you are running .224 bullets you have to back off the charges or you will blow pockets. Years ago I had a Pre-64 Model 70 Hornet that had been converted to .222 Remington (a fairly common practice). When I got it, I could not get the bolt to come out. I finally took it out of the stock and found the whole bottom of the action area of the stock was full of blown primer dimples.


It has been my experience with Hornets you have to run to the edge of max to get them to shoot well, but you have to do it with Hornet bullets.
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Old 12-29-2016, 11:43 AM
daniel lawecki daniel lawecki is offline
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You still can find .233 dia. bullets reduce your loads. I shoot the .22K Hornet and use pistol primers behind H110 or 296 in a Contender. My gun is a different animal with Hornady 40 gr V-Max bullets. My best group out of this 14'' barrel is .380 center to center 100 yards. Start at the bottom of the loading data and work up from there. As a side note I tried Lil-gun, 2400, and best groups are with H 110. so play a little you'll find the sweet spot. I even shot the 55 grain bullet. I use 8.5 grains to fire form my cases with the 40 gr bullet above.
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Old 12-29-2016, 11:54 AM
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Years ago. when I was working up loads for a Kimber .22 Hornet, the switch to Federal bench rest primers was the successful last piece of the accuracy puzzle. Groups with the favored load went from just over an inch at 100 yards to a bit less than half that.

Roe
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Old 12-29-2016, 12:17 PM
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Try 6 1/2 Remington primers if you can find them also remember that the twist rate of the old Hornet is awfully slow so use only very short bullets.
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Old 12-29-2016, 03:48 PM
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+1 for Remington 6 1/2. It is what the 40x 222 loads that were the test target ammo were loaded with!

I also have friends that swear by Federal 105M (small pistol match) for Hornet. He's getting 1/4" groups @ 100, but only pushing 1900 fps muzzle velocity with 1680, In a 14" Contender.

In an old Savage 340 I was getting 3300fps using 1680 with the Hornady 35 grain Hornet V-Max and getting 3/4" groups at 100. Factory was 3200 and 1.25 group. With 40gr Ballistic tip BT and 4227 I was getting 1/2 at 100 and about 2800 fps. It was very devastating on ground hogs out to 250 yards! All of my loads used Federal 205M primers (small rifle match) and all powder charges were weighed twice on two different scales! to keep weight variation to 1/2 of a tenth grain!

My experience with Remington 7 1/2 primers is they perform best at the maximum pressure you can give them, and Hornet just is too low! They are great in my BR's, PPC's, and heavy bullet 223's; but not so much with normal pressures.

I gave up on my ability with a 10" Contender in 22 Hornet, when I got a 10" 221 Fireball Contender barrel. I think the brass quality is the big difference. 50 to 100 yard ground hog hunting is now like popping party balloons! I'm not that good with a Contender so 100 is my maximum range and out that far only connect about 35 to 40%, but when I do, WOW!

Ivan
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 29aholic View Post
Another issue you are going to encounter is the 43's bore is a .223 versus .224. If you are running .224 bullets you have to back off the charges or you will blow pockets. Years ago I had a Pre-64 Model 70 Hornet that had been converted to .222 Remington (a fairly common practice). When I got it, I could not get the bolt to come out. I finally took it out of the stock and found the whole bottom of the action area of the stock was full of blown primer dimples.


It has been my experience with Hornets you have to run to the edge of max to get them to shoot well, but you have to do it with Hornet bullets.
Yes and not just that M43. Unless I'm mistaken all .22 Hornets bores run .223" and you must use Hornet specific bullets.
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Old 12-29-2016, 05:39 PM
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my hornet load for my contender carbine is 12.5 grs lil gun,34 gr midway dogtown bullet, and winchester small pistol primers. No problems with pierced primers in my gun
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by patrickd View Post
Yes and not just that M43. Unless I'm mistaken all .22 Hornets bores run .223" and you must use Hornet specific bullets.
Patrick, it seems I read that the newer Hornet rifles are .224 diameter barrels. But for sure the older ones were .223. And after seeing this thread I went looking and it looks to me like Sierra is about the only manufacturer still making .223 diameter Hornet bullets. I remember back in the 60's I was using .223 diameter Speer bullets, but they don't make any .223 diameter bullets any more.
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:01 PM
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Thanks for the good suggestions and info. The hornet I have slugged out at .224. I have tried 40 grain ballistic tips with moderate success. I think I am going to give 110 a try along with the federal bench rest primers.

Tried the 50 and 52 trainers a number of years ago. Couldn't hit a 4x4 target frame at 100. Switched back to shorter, lighter bullets and it tightened right back up. I am going to give the 35 trainers a try as well.

Fun gun to shoot, maybe expecting too much. Spoiled by the .222 that shoots .3" groups day in and day out.
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:15 AM
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I still use the Rem 6 1/2 primers in the hornet. In the older rifles I use .223 bullets in the newer I use .224 in 40 gr. Shoot well..especially in the Ruger 77-22H. I do have the bolt shimmed for decent Head Space. The 43 is hard to get to shoot well because of the way the bolt locksAlso remember that the Hornet was a great success when it came out as there was nothing to compare it to..other than the 25-20 and 32-20 as varminters. Another thing that will help is weighing cases and matching them up. Hornet cases were always kinda all over the map on weight and variation. Things are better these days. I consider an inch as good accuracy for the hornet...consistently. That Ruger shoots better quite often but it is still a Hornet. The K version does seem to shoot better than the original
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Old 12-30-2016, 08:38 AM
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Your load is likely producing too high of pressures to use the softer SP primers.
FWIW, there was a reduced power/noise .223 "gopher load" being shared on a varmint hunters forum some years back that advocated use of SP primers (and blue dot shotgun powder.) As I recall, there were a half dozen guys building and shooting them. Their goal was to get Hornet-Bee performance with low sound signature. They worked exactly as intended! I built hundreds of them over the year and found the rounds to be very accurate in every .223 I've owned (barrel twist permitting for the 45gr bullet). The small pistol primers worked flawlessly in this application as well. My thoughts are that one test in one rifle should not be the basis to dismiss an the potential for an entire concept. We learn and move on.
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Old 12-31-2016, 02:07 PM
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I shoot the Hornet and .218 Bee both and always use small pistol primers . I have NEVER had a problem doing this unless you consider cutting my group size in half ( at least ) to be a problem . I have a 1940's Winchester M43 in the Bee and Hornet also . I also have a Savage in the 340 series in 22 Hornet . Both have the older bore size and are regularly shot with the Nosler 40 gr and Hornady 35 gr V Max bullets which are modern .224 size bullets . I shoot anywhere from 11.5 to 12.5 grains of either Winchester 680 or AA1680 as well as 12 to 13 grains of Littlegun and have never had a pierced primer in either gun . The Savage has a chamber issue and I loose some brass to neck splits but it will religiously shoot under 1/2 MOA with the above loads . Do not give up on the SP's in your Hornet . Try another batch of primers .

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Old 01-05-2017, 11:31 PM
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I have loaded and shot 1000s of 22H rounds through several rifles, Kimber, Anschutz, Ruger and Browning.
I have found sm pistol primers work very well. I use Federal sm pistol primers.
The load that I have settled on is Win brass, fed Sm pistol, 13.0 Lil gun and various 40 grain bullets. Mostly I shoot Berger 40 HPs cause they fit through the clips of my Anschutz rifles.
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:52 PM
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So I'm loading a 218 Bee for my Winchester 43. I'm loading the Berger 40gr hp, with 12gr of IMR 4227 using a CCI 550 small pistol magnum primer for a velocity of 2600. My grouping at 100 yards are around 3". Although I'm always trying to improve, I'm ok with that
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Old 01-09-2017, 04:01 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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For 218 Bee, I use IMR 4227 12.5, 50 grain Sierra flat base (medium velocity) and a Fed 205M (Small Rifle Match) in Winchester brass and get sub .5" groups from my 26" Ruger No. 1, with a 4-12x50 scope on it. It is the "Accuracy" load in the Lyman #45 manual at their estimated 2617fps. They used a Rem 6 1/2 primer for their tests. I shot at a ground hog at what I thought was a 100-110 yard shot, turned out to be a 225 yard shot, and hit a few inches in front and down hill, It ricocheted up and into the ground hog, knocking him into the air around 5 feet. It was very impressive, but I think the thicker "high Velocity" bullets would stayed together and just buried in the ground. The HV bullets don't expand at these slower speeds and make for less humane kills!

They recommend 13.5 of IMR 4227 with the 40 grain and get 2932 fps, but I like my 50 gr load better.

When I first got the Ruger No. 1, I bought a box of Win. factory ammo and got 1.5" groups at 50 yards with it. The first hand load I tried with it was a cast 50 grain flat point with gas check and 10 gr 4227 and got 1" at 100, plenty accurate for ground hogs to 250, if sighted in for that bullet!

Ivan
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