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Old 01-10-2017, 09:37 PM
Speedo2 Speedo2 is offline
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Default 223 Casing Lube Dents

Started to get dents in my 223 cases during the re-sizing and de-capping operation on a RCBS single stage press and using RCBS die:

After around a dozen trials to determine what was causing the dents, I narrowed it down to excess casing lube not having anywhere to be relieved. The dents only occur during the last 1/16" of press travel. So, in the future I'm thinking that I'm going to have to perform re-sizing and de-capping as separate operations with frequent wipe-downs of the re-sizing die, like doing it for every other casing. A couple of questions for the experts:

1. Is my diagnosis correct; dents due to excess casing lube?
2. If so, what have others done to avoid denting their cases?
3. Are my dented cases salvageable or scrap? I'm thinking of fire forming them using a very weak load in a bolt action rifle.

All thoughts and recommendations will be appreciated. -S2
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:49 PM
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There is just too much lube. Don't use so much next time, but don't use so little that you get stuck cases.

I had that happen to me once, I shot the cartridge and it still had the proper POI.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:55 PM
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Wow that must be quite a build up. I'm using imperial sizing wax and never dented a single case. I just grease my fingers on it then roll a case in fingers making sure that there are no lumps on case left and size. I really love imperial - a little goes a looong way. I think your plan to fireform should work just fine.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:10 PM
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Yep, one of the first lessons I learned about reloading. It just takes time and experience to get just the right touch. Lots of things in life are like that. I loaded and shot them and couldn't see any trace of the dents.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:17 PM
k22fan k22fan is offline
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For lubing bottle neck cases that are sized on a single stage press I settled on Imperial sizing wax then leaned Chapstick lip balm functions exactly the same. With either, after a few cases have been run through a clean full length resize die, it only takes a band of wax around the case down low. The wax works its way up on its own. You only need to lube about every other case. With Imperial wax I only use the tip of one finger. Chapstick is preferred because my my fingers stay clean.

I'd load those dented cases normally and let them fire form themselves.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:20 PM
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As cheap as jacketed 223 bullets are why would would anyone try to shoot lead? The barrel dont like them. For a dime a pop you can shoot 55 grain fmj. Please explain what the purpose is. I can see 30-30 and 308. Lube is more than likely the cause.

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Old 01-10-2017, 10:58 PM
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I really like using Imperial or Hornady Unique. I've never dented a case with either one of those and they wipe off easy. I'll have to try that Chapstick thing that sounds handy.

Most of those dents you have there could be shot out. That one with the pothole in the shoulder might give you some troubles chambering and might not be the most accurate.

Speedo2, it doesn't take much of any lube, but make sure you get enough or your next post will be: "223 case stuck in die now what?"
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:59 PM
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Default Do not put lube on the shoulders.

Besides maybe not using so much lube, don't put any on the case shoulder. To me Imperial Sizing Wax is a must have. It takes so LITTLE on the cases to make them well lubed.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4barrel View Post
As cheap as jacketed 223 bullets are why would would anyone try to shoot lead? The barrel dont like them. For a dime a pop you can shoot 55 grain fmj. Please explain what the purpose is. I can see 30-30 and 308. Lube is more than likely the cause.
Neither the original poster nor anyone else brought up cast lead bullets before you did but I'll answer your question anyway: finding good accurate home cast .22 rifle loads is about the most challenging reloading project a retired fellow can fill his time with. Like making your own bullet lube or gas checks the pennies you save are not as important as enjoying your hobby time. Another way to look at it is finding a relatively high velocity accurate cast .223 load is less expensive than buying an antique rifle that you have to modify brass for.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:40 PM
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Agingstudent nailed it.
I did the same thing when I first loaded 45/70. Excess case lube,no doubt. As I recall,they shot right out though. I went to Hornady 1 shot spray for cases that require it.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:17 AM
AtomHeartMother AtomHeartMother is offline
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Yup.... I wouldn't try to save them as 223 brass is pretty easy for me to come by. I use Lyman spray lube...seems pretty forgiving. I just lay the cases out on an old cookie sheet and dust them with lube...roll them around and off to the races. So long as you don't ram a bone dry case into your die, you shouldn't have to worry much about a stuck case.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:32 AM
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The lube pad needs just a few drops of lube over its surface, smoothed out with your finger, to where the surface is moist.

The area can be small or large, depending on your needs.
It is also nice to keep the pad clean from powder flakes, tumbling material and other materials.

You can always add more if the cases use up the lube.
I never had to wipe out my dies if the pad is prepared correctly.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:17 AM
bigedp51 bigedp51 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo2 View Post
Started to get dents in my 223 cases during the re-sizing and de-capping operation on a RCBS single stage press and using RCBS die:

After around a dozen trials to determine what was causing the dents, I narrowed it down to excess casing lube not having anywhere to be relieved. The dents only occur during the last 1/16" of press travel. So, in the future I'm thinking that I'm going to have to perform re-sizing and de-capping as separate operations with frequent wipe-downs of the re-sizing die, like doing it for every other casing. A couple of questions for the experts:

1. Is my diagnosis correct; dents due to excess casing lube?
2. If so, what have others done to avoid denting their cases?
3. Are my dented cases salvageable or scrap? I'm thinking of fire forming them using a very weak load in a bolt action rifle.

All thoughts and recommendations will be appreciated. -S2
I just check three RCBS .223 dies and only the neck sizing die didn't have a vent hole. And I had to raise the lock ring to find the vent holes, and I'm using a Rockchucker press and Lee lock rings with the rubber o-rings. So vent holes are a problem with smaller calibers with a fat lock ring.

I use two case lube methods, if on a mass loading binge for my AR15 I put the cases in a very large clear plastic zip lock bag and spray them with a home made mixture of lanolin and alcohol. Then I massage the bag and coat all the cases evenly. This applies a very "thin" coating of lube and doesn't build up and dent the cases.

If I just loading 50 cases or less for my bolt action .223 I apply Hornady Unique with just one finger and lightly lube the cases.

Now the manuals tell you if you use a lube pad to wipe the excess lube off the shoulder and neck. With a tapered case as it is sized the excess lube is forced upward and the excess lube normally only causes small dents on the case shoulder. And when you have dents in the case body like you did you applied enough lube for 20 cases.

Welcome to reloading you have now done what we all have done and applied too much lube. Your next learning experience will be applying to little lube and getting a case stuck which is far more common.

So don't pretend now that you are a Star Wars Ewok and get a case stuck in the die.



I learned in the military that visual training aids are imprinted in your brain and remembered far longer.

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Old 01-11-2017, 07:13 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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That last 1/16" is where 90% of the sizing take place. The cases have a tiny bit of taper to the whole length. That is where it all contacts the die's inner surface. That is also the time and place you cartridge shoulder is set back. (since it is a bolt gun) You might think about raising your die 1/8- 1/4 turn to keep from over working the shoulder.

Since the is an accuracy project. Cast bullets don't really like to be crimped, We need to if they are used in a multi shot gun. But if you use the bolt gun without loading the magazine, just straighten out the case mouth bell and let neck tension do the work. (we do this all the time in Sharpe's and High Wall rifles) Try to make your brass have the same neck wall thickness, by turning or by sorting. 1/2 to3/4 of 1/000" should be the limit. The easiest way to measure is with a tube thickness micrometer but there are other ways that use arithmetic and 2 measurements per neck. If you can see the neck thickness be off balance, that case needs turned or retired.

Ivan
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k22fan View Post
Neither the original poster nor anyone else brought up cast lead bullets before you did but I'll answer your question anyway: finding good accurate home cast .22 rifle loads is about the most challenging reloading project a retired fellow can fill his time with. Like making your own bullet lube or gas checks the pennies you save are not as important as enjoying your hobby time. Another way to look at it is finding a relatively high velocity accurate cast .223 load is less expensive than buying an antique rifle that you have to modify brass for.
I was drinking a beer and miss read the post. Thanks for the wake up.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:13 PM
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Like most of these other guys have recommended. Purchase some Imperial Sizing Lube and your problems will go away. That little can will last years and years. It only takes a very, very small amount and sometimes, I will only lube every other case when things are total correct and there is a good coat of lube in the die. Spend $7-8 and have lube for the next decade.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:47 PM
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Just another preference for Imperial Sizing wax. I had that same problem once back about 30 years ago. Never since.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ageingstudent View Post
I really like using Imperial or Hornady Unique. I've never dented a case with either one of those and they wipe off easy. I'll have to try that Chapstick thing that sounds handy.

Most of those dents you have there could be shot out. That one with the pothole in the shoulder might give you some troubles chambering and might not be the most accurate.

Speedo2, it doesn't take much of any lube, but make sure you get enough or your next post will be: "223 case stuck in die now what?"
Actually, last week I stuck a couple. Vowing to never go through that again, I upped the lube. It has been a learning experience. -S2

Thanks to all for the comments and recommendations.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:10 PM
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The right amount of lube is something you learn with experience. It does not take much at all. I have dented a few in the last 50 years but nothing to get worked up over. The only stuck cases I ever had were with spray lube. After clearing two stuck case problems the spray lube went in the trash. I have always used RCBS lube and as long as I pay attention no problems. I also just load the dented cases like any other. No problem there either. However I honestly have never dented any as bad as the pictured cases.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:08 PM
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Ditto on the "keep the dies clean" statement. There is a vent hole there, but too much lube will clog it up eventually. Denatured alcohol works well to clean them out.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:46 AM
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Default Yeah, that's another thing......

Quote:
Originally Posted by twodog max View Post
The right amount of lube is something you learn with experience. It does not take much at all. I have dented a few in the last 50 years but nothing to get worked up over. The only stuck cases I ever had were with spray lube. After clearing two stuck case problems the spray lube went in the trash. I have always used RCBS lube and as long as I pay attention no problems. I also just load the dented cases like any other. No problem there either. However I honestly have never dented any as bad as the pictured cases.
When I get oil dents, they are tiny wrinkles all on the shoulder of the cases that just look tacky. That is some dent and I suspect that you have more going on than just the lube. Maybe the vent holes are a problem.

Or maybe it is that ball bearing that is stuck with lube inside the top of your die.
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Old 01-13-2017, 06:15 PM
Ralph Compton Ralph Compton is offline
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Default dented cases

You might consider one of he spray lubes. It takes very little. I think there is also someone that has a carbide die for the .223. I reload a lot of rifle brass from .12 Remington to 338 and use Dillon spray case lube. never had a problem.
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