I am looking to reload for my new S&W M/P. I am looking for suggestions on components for a 230gr JHP, mostly looking at what bullets to use. Go?!....


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WELCOME TO THE FORUM, BigHornDrifter.

I WOULD BEGIN BY TRYING TO MIMIC THE OGIVE OF FACTORY AMMO THAT FEEDS RELIABLY, AND SHOOTS ACCURATELY AND CONSISTENTLY IN YOUR WEAPON.....

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

I agree. What ammo would you mimic? Again I am new to shooting a 45.


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The best jhp reside in factory ammo. The xtp is readily available & your m&p should run fine on them. The winchester 230gr jhp is a very good cup/core bullet, if you can find hem. Of course the gold dots & golden saber, but you just dont see them much anymore.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Alas....Gone...But my favorite was the old speer "flying ashtray"......Federal Hydrashoks are great too.......

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S&W Accumulator

What do you reload for target shooting?


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one of the joys of reloading is finding a good commercial round and trying to copy it for your own. If I may ask are you going to make your own your defense ammo. Some would not recommend it because of possible legal issues. if you want to mimic a commercial load for plinking and practice bullets, Rainer, Berry and EXtreme make good Copper clad bullets.

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Carpriver.

I would like to reload a good bear load, I know it's not the best bear gun; although, I need something packable because I archery hunt. I just hunt in the Yellowstone echo system.


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A cast 200 gr semi wadcutter is a good one that can be loaded 750-900+ fps depending on what you want from it

I think I need to shift gears, what is the best component for target shooting? Also, I am new to shooting pistols, is the target and game load as important for accuracy?


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I have VERY good success with Hornady's XTP in all of my .45 caliber guns.....you probably will as well.

Randy

I looked around for 230 grain JHP too. I settled on Everglades bullets. So far I've had great luck with them.
I have shot them through my 1911 and my Shield 45 with good success.
No misfeeds and great accuracy.

Their website says they are currently out of stock, but their prices start out at $89 for 500 bullets, with free shipping. From the average cost online for Hornady XTP's, the Everglades bullets are roughly 7¢ cheaper per bullet. That can add up fast.

For target hand loads, all I have used so far are Berry's 230 grain round nose bullets.
I've found the Berry's to perform reliably too, with no feeding issues, etc.

Hunting the Yellowstone Eco system is fraught with grizzlies. I see at least one every time I hunt the 58/59 areas south of Cody. From your user name I assume you live in Wy.The 45 truly is not the handgun to carry in this area..however.. if you can find a bit heavier recoil spring and go with +P 45 auto ammo it would be acceptable to carry. If you can, try to find some Remington Golden Sabers. A good bullet that will not open as fast and you will want as much penetration as possible with the HP opening up. The XTP may work as well in a +P loading. I know of one elk taken with the Factory Remington 45 Auto Golden Sabers..at about 40 ft though. For Golden Sabers haunt some gun shows looking for them. That is where I found my last 300.

Agreed. I just don't see a reason to use the 230-gr JHP in reloaded ammunition. The price of bullets will drive the cost up over el cheapo-brand plinking fodder, and there are better options for match and competition anyway.

A deceptively complicated question, actually. So I'll answer it by sort've not answering your question, and then circling back and answering your question.

I would suggest starting with a simple 230-grain lead roundnose. The 230 LRN will have close to the same shape as the factory 230-gr jacketed roundnose, and will feed reliably without a lot of work and stress on your part. It's also easy to correctly OAL and crimp. There's abundant load data for it, and it works well with any .45ACP-suitable powder. It's versatile, with loads ranging from exceptionally mild, to factory jacketed velocities. And it's cheap--as low as $46/500 (Missouri Bullets), half the price of jacketed.

To be frank, most shooters do not have need of anything more than the humble 230 LRN. It will do anything that most shooters and most guns may ask of it.

For competition, it depends on what precisely that competition is. Accuracy in the way that I think of it is largely unimportant in action pistol sports (IPSC, IDPA, etc). Mostly, shooters opt for whatever bullet weight, velocity, and powder combination gives them the lowest perceived recoil while maintaining reliability and making Major power factor (bullet weight x avg velocity / 1000 = PF). Coated and plated bullets are favored due to their reduced smoke.

In outdoor bullseye competition, competitors generally use one or two of three bullets.

The 185-grain JHP is used sometimes for the 50-yard Slow Fire portion. Fans of the bullet suggest the weight balance makes it more accurate at those ranges, at the expense of increased (and very snappy) recoil. But with 10 minutes to fire 10 shots, recoil just doesn't matter.

However, most people rely on either a 185-gr or 200-gr LSWC for both Slow Fire, and Timed and Rapid Fire (5 shots in 20 and 10 seconds, respectively). Both produce modest recoil at reduced loads, while still being capable of excellent accuracy. Since they're much cheaper than JHPs, most people just go ahead and use the same bullet for Slow Fire as well, usually loaded a bit hotter for Slow and a bit softer for the sustained fire strings.

The choice between 185-gr and 200-gr LSWCs is generally whichever will feed more reliably in a particular gun, which brings me to why I wouldn't recommend jumping into LSWCs just yet.

For one thing, some pistols just don't want to run reliably with them. Mostly, polymer-frame guns seem to detest them. The only way to find out is to look at the feed ramp and magazine if you know what to look for, or check around online if you don't. For another, they can be damn tricky for a novice to OAL properly.

There are other bullets you can try--200-gr round nose, Berry's 185-gr hollow-base roundnose, 200-gr roundnose flatpoint, etc--but those are the big ones.

That said, no matter how many .45 ACP bullets I try, I keep coming back to the 230 LRN.

I generally shoot a lead or coated lead bullet. Cheaper & i can easily make them myself. Jhp for paper is just wasting money. The 200gr swc is a target fav, but some guns dont like them.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I have read over the years that the Marine Corps pistol teams use the 185 gr Nosler JHP over 4.5,4.6,4.7grs Titegroup. Please approach any loads that myself or anyone else says with caution and start low and come up slowly(if at all).

Hornady HPs are not aggressive expanders, but by the time they make it through a bear they might exhibit greater expansion. If it were me I would consider them. Lead bullets of any design are not likely to expand. I think bigger is better...230 grain for this purpose if a 45ACP is your chosen sidearm,and I still would be praying that encounter never happens. John

I HAVE TO AGREE WITH Skeet. .45 ACP IS NOT THE BEST CHOICE FOR LARGE CARNIVORES, LIKE GRIZZ. I WOULD NOT BE CONCERNED WITH FINDING A HOLLOWPOINT THAT WILL EXPAND.......

YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO STOP A LARGE ANIMAL, IN A CHARGE. THE ONLY WAY THAT CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED, IS WITH A HEAVY HARD CAST BULLET, THAT WILL PENETRATE, AND SMASH BONE--A STERNUM, PELVIS, OR HIP, ETC......

THE .45ACP IS GENERALLY A SELF DEFENSE ROUND, USED AGAINST HUMANS. WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS HUNTING AMMO TO BE USED AGAINST DANGEROUS GAME. OFF HAND, I DON'T KNOW OF A SOURCE OF THAT TYPE OF BULLET, OR LOADED AMMO OF THAT TYPE, IN .45 ACP.......

I WOULD SEARCH GARRETT, BUFFALOBORE, AND COR-BON FOR STARTERS.....

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Most of us target shooters use a 185 to 200 gr. cast SWC , economics play a large part in it , lots cheaper than Hornady XTP's. You get to shoot more and paper targets are not difficult to stop.
Jacketed hollow points are hunting and selfdefense. I was never able to get Speer 230 gr. JHP's to reliably expand at 45 acp handgun velocities.
Gary

Hornady XTPs seem to feed in everything I own. I just set 'em on top of 5gr of Bullseye, the classic .45ACP charge.

I avoid using R-P brass with .451 bullets. My emergency stash is all loaded in Starline or PMC cases.

While I love the 200gr LSWC for target shooting I get some great results with the Moly coated Bear Creek 200gr RNHB and 4.6gr of Green Dot. Not the easiest bullet to find.

There's a bunch of 230 gr. JHPs out there for the 45 ACP. Google

I'd suggest trying several different makes to see which bullet your gun likes the best. I started reloading my 1911 with RN/FMJ to get the hang of it and 45 eventually went to a 200 gr cast SWC, both for target and SD. I'm not sure a HP would reliably open/mushroom at my 45 ACP velocities, so bullet shape is more important to me. One problem though, my cast 200 gr SWCs won't feed reliably in my Ruger P90...

I largely agree wise Wise_A. I would highly recommend exploiting the free shipping and bulk sales offered by Xtreme bullets for bulk reloading.

I'm in the same boat as the OP for hollow points in .45. I intend to try XTP's in the 200 and 230gr variety.

Edit:
Thanks HillBilly77 for the note about Everglade Bullets. I'll be trying them for sure. Those prices + free shipping they offer are definitely competitive.

If I wanted a 45 acp for emergency use against larger game, it would be loaded with 230 or 255 lrnfp with a large meplat. The 255 gn from a Lee mold has a large meplat, and some smaller companies now produce a 230 lrnfp with large meplat. If your pistol would feed them. A 18 lb recoil spring with 255 lrnfp @@ 850 fps is possible.

A ruger Blackhawk is cheaper, stronger and available in more suitable calibers.

I took a chance and ordered 2k plated 9mms from them--I've been quite happy so far. And although I would never admit it publicly, sometimes it's just very nice to work with plated bullets, as opposed to lead. They look nice, they feel nice, and they're clean to touch.

For .45 ACPs (and lead in general), I've been using Missouri Bullets. They shoot very well, but they also smoke a ton in some cartridges.

Agreed. .45 ACP is well-made for two-leggers, but against four, I believe it is somewhat lacking.

Both .45 Colt and .44 Remington Magnum are versatile enough to be both pleasant to enjoy, and deliver the performance needed of a wildlife-defense cartridge. Even at relatively stout loadings, they're easily-handled.

On a lark, I tried some 7-yard DA double-taps with full-power .44s out of a 6" 629--rather surprising!

I use Hornady XTP HP in 230 grain. I believe they're available in 180 and 200 grain as well.

The OAL is determined by the ogee, which is hard to measure. By trial and error, using barrels know for a short chamber and "plunk" testing, I use an OAL of 1.230". Considering the flat tip, this is roughly equivalent to FMJ at 1.250", which is also needed for jam-free performance in a Kahr PM45 or Springfield XDs.

Basically, you don't want the bullet to engage the rifling. In a plunk test in a dismounted barrel, a loaded round should seat on the lip of the case. If you press firmly with your thumb, the cartridge should fall free when you tip the barrel up.

If the OAL is too long, you tend to get misfires (FTF), and the pistol is nearly impossible to clear by hand, even if loaded but not fired.

Well, if you're going to be killed by a grizzly I guess a 1911 is just as good as anything else. I've seen those bears in Yellowstone, they look like 30 mph terminators to me. I know a guy who fished the rivers in Alaska for many years. He carried a 44 mag, still has it. Not saying that is the gun to carry but it might help a little.

If you really are serious about a 1911 get a 10 mm for back country packing.

I like Hornady XTP bullets but I shoot a lot so went with coated lead. Acme or Bayou is a good place to start there. There probably are at least 10 different powders that work well 230 grn bullets. Bullseye seems to be a favorite with long time shooters. I don't use it because it's pretty hard to find.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Does anybody have any experience loading Speer .452 lead bullets 200gr? Stupid question of the day...why is it .452 not .451? Are they the same? I need a good powder for the bullet, if I decide to use it. Biggest reason for using it is I can find it in small town Wyoming.


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Haven't used Speers bullets,but 200 gr lswc (I order them from cheycast in Cheyenne)are all I use in my 45s.As far as size,lead are usually .001 larger than jacketed bullets.I use Unique for full power loads and bullseye for target loads.

I have used those bullets in the 45 auto. 452 because lead bullets should be .001 larger than nominal bore size..at least. Don't push 'em too hard and they shoot good. I loaded a 1000 of them with 231 for my 45s. Mostly shoot a Wilson Combat. Most reliable 45 I have ever had. I also shoot them out of a 3 inch Kimber with laser sites. It is my every day carry piece and use those rounds for practice. Not the most accurate 45 I have but close 'nuff for a fighting gun. It shoots the lead 200 gr bullets from Speer and Hornady pretty well. I do have to trade out the recoil spring when shooting the lighter loads as I have it set up for heavy defense loads with Hollow Points. + P ammo. Don't remember the Speer number but the Hornady SKU is 12108. A box of 200 is about 25-26 bucks.

My 45acp loading begins and ends with 5 grains of Bullseye and a 230 grain FMJ bullet.

Someday I would like to come up with a good midrange target load for my Gold Cup, but for everything else, the load above is great.

I like the idea that you bow hunt in the Yellowstone ecosystem. If you've been hunting there much you know the Griz run to the sound of rifle shots. You also must know game wardens and feds protect the bears and give lots of trouble to those who shoot one. That said, if you have to save your life by shooting a bear you damn well ought to have something stronger than a 1911 45. Get a 4" heavy revolver which is 44 caliber or higher and buy ammo for it from Buffalo Bore or Garrett. These specialty loaders have ammo that will save your life! These heavy revolvers are usually carried in shoulder harness, not on the hip.

You are only going to shoot if you absolutely have to! When/if it happens the gun and ammo must be capable of stopping the bear.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821