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Old 02-04-2017, 08:20 AM
Davinman Davinman is offline
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Default 223 minimum overall length

I have a 223 rifle that must have a very short lead to the lands. Ive noticed that some bullets cannot even be loaded to the minimum col that some powders list. I check max col to lands with a Hornady col tool. "example" Hornady 40gr v-max comes up 20 thousandths short of min col. at touching the lands, Hornady sxsp 55gr sp's come up 60 thousandths short of min col. But Nosler 55gr Bal tips & Sierra 69gr match kings have no problems, nor do bulk 55gr win sp's. Its pretty much a hit or miss thing. Should i worry about this?
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Old 02-04-2017, 10:13 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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You can load to the rifle as is. It sounds like your rifle needs a trip to the factory service center or a good gunsmith. You need to first figure what the twist is and which weight bullet you want to shoot. For example: if it's a 1:14 or 1:12 twist you might want 30 to 50 grain bullets, 1:10 or 1:9, 45 to 75 grains and 1:8 a 77 or heavier bullet. Then the gunsmith will know how long of lead to ream in. There are standard/one size fits all chamber dementions. But you already have it there why not get the best chamber for the bullet you plan on using. Or you could have a 5.56 NATO chamber reamed in do you can use Mil-spec ammo.

I load my 223 ammo for bolt guns with a 1:12 twist with a 50 grain poly tipped bullet just touching the lands to 5/1000" of the lands, some guns like 25/1000" of jump from the case to the rifling.

Good brass and good primers are very important for good accuracy. For primers I recommend Federal 205 M, CCI BR-4 or Remington 7 1/2. (BR-4's are my favorite, but are often very difficult to find!) These all are match primers and cost more! and are harder to locate! I buy a brick of 1000 and write which rifle they are for and don't use them in any other rifle until after it is sold or I've used them up in that gun.

Have fun figuring out what you wish to do.

Ivan
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:12 AM
bigedp51 bigedp51 is offline
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A .223 with a 1 in 12 or 1 in 14 twist will have the shorter .0250 length throat. A AR15 has a .0500 length throat and my AR15 A2 HBAR has a .0600 length throat. And my Savage .223 bolt action with a 1 in 9 twist has a .0566 length throat.

Throat lengths are not written in stone and bullet shape has a effect on seating depth.

I would double check and bump a fired case into the die just far enough to lightly hold a bullet. Then seat a bullet long and chamber the case letting the rifling do the final bullet seating and check its length.



HOLLIGER ON .223/5.56 CHAMBERS
NJ HiPower - Cartridge Tech Specs

Last edited by bigedp51; 02-04-2017 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:33 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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Between the two of us, we've told you more than you ever wanted to know!

Ivan
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:30 PM
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Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
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Now that's a "Slam Dunk" !!!

Wo baby..........
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Old 02-04-2017, 05:48 PM
Davinman Davinman is offline
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Its a Savage model 12 w/a 1 in 9" twist bbl. Thanks for all the info so far, now i must let me brain soak it all up. I guess its all about the ogive then. Maybe Ill just stick with the bullets I can seat out to the right depth, "aka" the balistic tips & the match kings, and work with those for awhile..... lolol

Last edited by Davinman; 02-04-2017 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 02-04-2017, 06:18 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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I have a bull barreled Savage in 223 with a 1:9 twist. The only load I shoot in it is 75 grain V-Max, I send you a PM with my loading data soon. My friend owned it & I was shooting it one day and it earned a name: The M&M gun! It hit 10 consecutive M&M's at 200 yards. It has also held a 3" group at 1000 yards. A very impressive gun!

Ivan
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Old 02-04-2017, 06:30 PM
Davinman Davinman is offline
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sounds great Ivan, and your gun sounds like its a very impressive shooter indeed. I have a savage model 12 in 308 as well as this 223, and it shoots 1 hole groups @ 200 yards w/168gr a-max, so im hoping this gun will follow in the the other savages footprints. we shall see after i can get out to the range with some handloads.

Last edited by Davinman; 02-04-2017 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:31 PM
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If it's shooting one hole groups at 200 yards DO NOT send it back to the factory service center. It will not get any better accuracy, just seat the bullets to fit and work in your rifle's chamber. Don't start with maximum loads , work up to the velocity and keep an eye out for excess pressure. That rifle's a keeper, load to it.
Gary
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:32 PM
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Try 69 gr Sierra Match Kings. Ogive shouldnt be a problem.
They shoot very well in my 1in9 Savage.
Jim

Last edited by jimbo728; 02-05-2017 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:11 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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I also have an early Savage 10-BAS (they are different now) in 308. Once I had the scope zeroed, with a box LE Only 165gr Hornady A-Max, It put all 20 in the same .317" at 100 yards! I have a 110 BA in 338 Lapua, it isn't quite as accurate or my ammo isn't as accurate as my 308, but I regularly hit Cigarette packs at 500 yards, I just haven't got the recoil management down for 800+ on that gun. I think in the better grades of rifle, Savage is making the most accurate rifle for the money! I have a friend that has a first year factory 12 in 6BR 1:8 twist, that frequently has 2" groups at 1000 and another friend that built a 243 on a 12 action that stacked 3 shots at 600!

In the 308 BAS I'm using Sierra, 155 Palma bullet over 47 grains of Varget and a Fed. 210M primer. I'm using Hornady Match brass with about 15 loadings on it. It is very good brass. In 338 LM I'M, also using Hornady Match brass, it is not very good (but better than PPU brass!), and have 200 Lapua brass that I'm working on now for my next try at longer ranges. For bullets I use 300 Matchkings and Berger 300 gr Hybrids. Both have unreal BC's!

Around 2003 I found a used 110 Left Hand in 223 of unknown twist with a cheap 6-18x40 scope on it for $200 OTD. I had several hundred rounds of Winchester Varmint 46 grain at 3700fps. I zeroed the scope to this ammo and it would group 1/2" or better at 200 yards. So I gave the gun and 400 rounds to my second son as a combo Happy Birthday/Welcome Home from the Marines, present. That gun and ammo combo would vaporize ground hogs at 450 yards! Even older Savages have their moments!

Ivan
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:59 AM
Davinman Davinman is offline
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I used to never care for Savage rifles years ago, but after breaking down and finally buying my first one to see what the hype is about, i found out they are great shooting guns. Now i have a second one to go with my first one, they're almost as bad as "crack" it seems, very addicting lololol. After i get to run some handloads through this new Savage im hoping it dont let me down.

Last edited by Davinman; 02-05-2017 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 02-05-2017, 03:12 AM
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My first thought on reading the header was.." Is this a bolt gun or an auto loader.....Unless you are single loading in an auto loader, you are restricted to magazine length....if the rifle is a bolt gun with a magazine you have the same restriction or you could single load as well....

Hows that for technical?

Randy
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