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  #1  
Old 02-25-2017, 05:21 PM
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Default Assist with lite target loads using Alliant 2400

On recommendation, I recently purchased Alliant 2400 for reloading .44 mag casings using 240 grain (Keith style) SWC only to discover I could find little data for this bullet. Lyman Cast Bullet Manual, 4th Edition, stated a starting load of 18.5 grains, but it was too spicy for my arthritic hands to be any fun shooting paper. Hoping for suggestions to lighten this load for fun comfortable target practice without the worry of squibs.

Similar request for data relative to a .357 mag casings using 158 grain (Keith style) SWC with the 2400 powder.

Thanks folks!
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Old 02-25-2017, 05:43 PM
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I think you need to try a different powder, 2400 is usually for stouter loads. You might try Unique or some of the other "medium burning speed" powders. Good luck
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Old 02-25-2017, 06:03 PM
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I found 2400 to get dirty pretty quick as I down loaded it. CFE-P and HS-6 are mid range favorites of mine. There's lots of powders in that burn range that will do the job.
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Old 02-25-2017, 06:04 PM
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2400 and lite loads are like oil & water.
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Old 02-25-2017, 06:10 PM
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Default 44 Mag

Check this Alliant site.

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

44 Mag with arthritic hands is tough. Looks like you have a lot of leeway. Shooting for fun may just be a couple grains over minimum or just stay at minimum. You my try shooting .44 special load should be a lot easier on the arthritis.

I've shot a lot of 158 LSWC .357 with 12 gr of 2400 it's bad enough to let you know it's a magnum and you are on the bottom of the scale pretty accurate too.

Dan
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Old 02-25-2017, 06:23 PM
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Save the 2400 for the more powerful magnum loadings. Unique is the powder that you should be using for mid range loads. I use 8.5 to 10.0 grains of Unique under the Keith 240 grain LSWC for pleasant to shoot target loads. Use standard primers with this powder.
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Old 02-25-2017, 06:24 PM
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I've been really liking BE86 in light .44 target loads. Even at lower pressures it burns pretty clean. It's right at Unique's burn rate but the smaller flakes meter better.
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Old 02-25-2017, 06:46 PM
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2400 is a MAGNUM (slow) powder it is not intended for "light loads"

"It is not the powder you seek"

You need to buy a different powder, I do not know what is available around you but something in the burn speed of HP38 or Unique would be good.

Check a manual

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/u...-2015-2016.pdf
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Old 02-25-2017, 07:10 PM
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Look at the data for 44 Special. Lyman #4 shows a 240 grain bullet and 2400 with a starting load of 11.2 grains @ 698 fps and a maximum load of 13.2 grains @ 803 fps. Now these loads are in 44 special cases but you can try them in 44 magnum cases and see if satisfactory .
You could always load these in 44 special cases so the different loads would be easy to distinguish from magnum loads.
As several have said , Unique might be the more suitable powder.
Gary
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Old 02-25-2017, 07:13 PM
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I never had success with less than 12 grains of 2400 in any case. You won't find data for such in the 357 Mag.

However, any .44 Special load is certainly OK in your .44 Magnum, and Alliant online currently recommends 13 grains 2400 under a 250Keith in the .44 Special....I'd load that in the .44 Mag cases.

As others have stated, there are at least a half-dozen medium burning powders that are better suited to light loads in a variety of cartridges. Get you some Alliant Unique or Win 231 and you'll find plinking happiness.
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Old 02-25-2017, 07:15 PM
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I sympathize with op about the arthritic hands an wrists. Trail Boss is your best friend. My 29's diet over the past few years is loads consisting of Trail Boss and either 200 or 240 gr cast lead round nose bullets.
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2017, 09:53 PM
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Trail Boss works well in reduced "target" loads but can be somewhat expensive per round.
Just about any fast to medium shotgun or pistol powder can be made to work in the 44.
As a couple of examples:
One of my lowest power accurate loads is 4.5 grains of PB (now discontinued) with the case then filled up with Grex shotgun buffer and a 240 SWC.
I get around 675 fps.
6.5-7 grains Unique will get you into the mid to high 700's fps
A nice medium power load in the 44 magnum is 8 grains of Unique or Universal and that 240 SWC.
That runs around 800-900 fps.
As has been mentioned the online and print manuals have many low power loads listed in the 44 special.
Load them in the 44 magnum brass and add .5 grain to make up for the bigger case.
Save the 2400 for full magnum loads.
My fave is 18-19 grains 2400 under a Cast Perf 260 grain WFNGC.
I vary that load depending on the brass used.

I too have some arthritis especially in my thumb joints.
A heavier gun helps a LOT with recoil and control.
A full underlug also helps with muzzle rise.
I have a 4" 629 Mountain Revolver with a light barrel that is the only gun I have ever had ported.
The ports helped immensely with the extreme muzzle rise but porting is not everyone's cuppa tea.
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:57 PM
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OP I feel your pain. I have experimented with lighter loads in .44 mag
with 2400 and have settled on 16.6gr of 2400 with a 240gr XTP.
It is pleasant enough for my in bad shape hands and shoots minute of plate at 25yds. Recoil is comfortable and I have suffered none of the negatives with this load stated in this thread with reduced 2400 loads. It runs around 1150 fps in my 629 Classic,6.5 inch bbl.
As for a light 240gr cast load for light target work, 7gr of 231 works very well. That one runs about 850 fps in the same revolver.
Jim

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Old 02-25-2017, 11:34 PM
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Yes, 2400 is better suited to heavy loads in handguns. Suggest you try Unique, AA#5, Power Pistol or Universal. I've used all of these with good results in my .44 Spls.

Larry
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:47 PM
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I've found that HP38/Win231 is great for light loads in 44 Mag. Cheap to load and easy on the wrists. 6.5 - 7.0 grains makes for a real nice, soft shooting load with 240 grain SWC bullets.

And yes, 2400 isn't a powder you want to shoot if the recoil tears your wrists and hands up. That's more suited for magnum level loads.
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Old 02-26-2017, 03:06 AM
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You mentioned " light target loads " ? 2400 is definitely not the powder to use . Yes , you can down load it some but accuracy will probably drop off and you will have unburnt powder caused by too low of pressure .
For light target loads , I wouldn't even start with any of the medium burn rate powders like Unique , Universal , Power Pistol etc . I would go either to Trail Boss , Red Dot , or nothing any slower than W231/ HP38 , Ramshot Zip etc . I believe Alliant has just come out with a new powder called " Sport Pistol " , supposedly in the burn rate comparable to W231 .
These powders will give you a nice light accurate target load w/o a lot of pain while shooting . Also , going to a lighter bullet weight definitely reduces recoil / pain in your hands . Hope this helps , good luck

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Old 02-26-2017, 03:13 AM
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As mentioned, try some 44 Special loads in your 44 Mag cases & go up from there if you want.

Add about .75grs to the 44 Special receipe to offset use in the (~6%) larger 44 Mag case. 2400 is very forgiving & easily down loaded. Use regular primers.

Light loads of 2400 will be dirtier (no biggie) but in your case I think you'll notice (and like) that the slower powder gives a noticeably easier recoil impulse compared to similar power levels of fast powder. It also reduces any tendency toward leading vs. a fast powder too, if things aren't optimal between your gun & your lead bullets.

17gr/2400 & 240gr L-SWC are very accurate.

Since you already bought it, try it.

.
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:23 PM
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As mentioned 2400 is a magnum powder but 13grs of powder is not all that much.

Then again there is;
Bullseye at 5 grs
Red Dot at 7 grs
Unique at 8 grs

but who's counting ?
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:25 PM
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Just the wrong powder for light loads. About 16gr with a mag primer is about as low as i would go, leaves too much unburned powder below thar. You need a medium burner like unique, wsf, be86 for lighter loads, std primers work fine.
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Old 02-26-2017, 03:23 PM
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Thanks to all of you kind folks for the rapid responses. I'll experiment with the 2400 in .44 Mag cases loaded to .44 Special specs starting at approx. 11.2 grains with that 240 gr. SWC as stated in the Lyman manual. Glad I only purchased 1 lb., and I'll save the remaining previous loaded "hot" rounds for range "friends" to shoot

Thanks again!
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Old 02-26-2017, 11:13 PM
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The best bet in your situation is to use 200 grain lead bullets with 6 to 7 grains of Bullseye, Red Dot, or 700-X. Essentially a Cowboy load. Or use any .44 Special-equivalent load. Do not use 2400.
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Similar request for data relative to a .357 mag casings using 158 grain (Keith style) SWC with the 2400 powder.
I think that you'll find that the maximum charge weight of 2400 below a 158 grain SWC will be 14.0 grains. Start 10% lower. Just for future reference, Keith's design for a .38 caliber SWC would be Lyman's #358429 or H&G #43. Both weigh 173 grains nominal, not 158 grains. All SWC designs are not Keith type bullets.

Bruce
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Old 02-27-2017, 10:08 AM
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BruceM , thank you for correcting the assumption that all swc's are a keith bullet . I have posted so many times the difference that quite frankly , I'm just tired of it . Many times you see someone post " Keith type " . It's either a " Keith " bullet or it isn't . There's no in between type .
I think the biggest misconception is in the 44 magnum. Some think that using any 240 gr bullet , cast or jacketed on top of 22 grs of 2400 is shooting " the Keith load " , which is " BS " . His load of 22 grs of 2400 was using " HIS " bullet , HG 503 - 245gr swc with it's short shank and long nose . The Lyman 429421 is also an acceptable version of Elmers design .

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Old 02-27-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbsphoto View Post
On recommendation, I recently purchased Alliant 2400 for reloading .44 mag casings using 240 grain (Keith style) SWC only to discover I could find little data for this bullet. Lyman Cast Bullet Manual, 4th Edition, stated a starting load of 18.5 grains, but it was too spicy for my arthritic hands to be any fun shooting paper. Hoping for suggestions to lighten this load for fun comfortable target practice without the worry of squibs.

Similar request for data relative to a .357 mag casings using 158 grain (Keith style) SWC with the 2400 powder.

Thanks folks!
Good morning,

I would hold onto that 2400 for true magnum loads. 2400 is awesome for those and for awhile has been scarce. Hopefully that has changed, but I digress.
For some pleasant and still accurate range loads here are some of the following that I like with coated or lubed 240LSWC...

* 240LSWC 8.0gr of Unique in 44mag case CCI300/FED150 1.610" should yield just at or slightly over 1000fps out of 6.5"+ bbl

* 240LSWC 7.0gr of 700X in 44mag case CCI300/FED150 1.610" 980fps avg 6.5" bbl

* 240LSWC 6.2gr of Red Dot or Promo in 44mag case CCI300/FED150 1.610" avg 882fps 6" bbl
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Old 02-28-2017, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
The Lyman 429421 is also an acceptable version of Elmers design .
The Ideal and earlier Lyman molds have a round grease groove and are not really true to Keith's design. Later production Lyman 429421 molds have the square grease groove. The round grease groove allows bullets to drop from the mold easier. The square grease groove carries more lubricant.

Bruce
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:24 PM
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HP 38/231 and Green Dot are both great for lite .44 mag loads, one of my favorits is 7 gr of Green with a 250K K-SWC. Nice easy load. Roughly a .44 special load in a magnum case.
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Old 02-28-2017, 07:29 PM
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I don't shoot 44 mag loads, but for the 357 load I'd suggest a switch to H110 and try around 14.5 grains with a magnum primer.
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyo5 View Post
I don't shoot 44 mag loads, but for the 357 load I'd suggest a switch to H110 and try around 14.5 grains with a magnum primer.
The OP is looking for light target loads.
That is a full power magnum load with 158 or 170 grain bullets.
H110 is even less of a reduced load powder than 2400.
It has long been recommended by the manufacturer to never reduce H110/W296 loads by more than 10%.
IMR4227 would make a better lower velocity load (using slow powder) if one didn't mind the unburned residue.
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