|
|
02-25-2017, 05:21 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 8
Likes: 22
Liked 8 Times in 3 Posts
|
|
Assist with lite target loads using Alliant 2400
On recommendation, I recently purchased Alliant 2400 for reloading .44 mag casings using 240 grain (Keith style) SWC only to discover I could find little data for this bullet. Lyman Cast Bullet Manual, 4th Edition, stated a starting load of 18.5 grains, but it was too spicy for my arthritic hands to be any fun shooting paper. Hoping for suggestions to lighten this load for fun comfortable target practice without the worry of squibs.
Similar request for data relative to a .357 mag casings using 158 grain (Keith style) SWC with the 2400 powder.
Thanks folks!
|
02-25-2017, 05:43 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,529
Likes: 790
Liked 678 Times in 436 Posts
|
|
I think you need to try a different powder, 2400 is usually for stouter loads. You might try Unique or some of the other "medium burning speed" powders. Good luck
|
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
|
|
02-25-2017, 06:03 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 1,267
Liked 2,021 Times in 760 Posts
|
|
I found 2400 to get dirty pretty quick as I down loaded it. CFE-P and HS-6 are mid range favorites of mine. There's lots of powders in that burn range that will do the job.
|
02-25-2017, 06:04 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 746
Likes: 2,968
Liked 560 Times in 272 Posts
|
|
2400 and lite loads are like oil & water.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
02-25-2017, 06:10 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 184
Likes: 11
Liked 91 Times in 47 Posts
|
|
44 Mag
Check this Alliant site.
Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide
44 Mag with arthritic hands is tough. Looks like you have a lot of leeway. Shooting for fun may just be a couple grains over minimum or just stay at minimum. You my try shooting .44 special load should be a lot easier on the arthritis.
I've shot a lot of 158 LSWC .357 with 12 gr of 2400 it's bad enough to let you know it's a magnum and you are on the bottom of the scale pretty accurate too.
Dan
|
02-25-2017, 06:23 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: central Florida
Posts: 798
Likes: 1,203
Liked 1,015 Times in 391 Posts
|
|
Save the 2400 for the more powerful magnum loadings. Unique is the powder that you should be using for mid range loads. I use 8.5 to 10.0 grains of Unique under the Keith 240 grain LSWC for pleasant to shoot target loads. Use standard primers with this powder.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
02-25-2017, 06:24 PM
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego, PRK
Posts: 9,238
Likes: 11,531
Liked 11,249 Times in 3,916 Posts
|
|
I've been really liking BE86 in light .44 target loads. Even at lower pressures it burns pretty clean. It's right at Unique's burn rate but the smaller flakes meter better.
|
02-25-2017, 06:46 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 22,065
Likes: 10,777
Liked 15,466 Times in 6,788 Posts
|
|
2400 is a MAGNUM (slow) powder it is not intended for "light loads"
"It is not the powder you seek"
You need to buy a different powder, I do not know what is available around you but something in the burn speed of HP38 or Unique would be good.
Check a manual
https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/u...-2015-2016.pdf
__________________
Still Running Against the Wind
|
02-25-2017, 07:10 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 6,838
Likes: 7,394
Liked 8,050 Times in 3,652 Posts
|
|
Look at the data for 44 Special. Lyman #4 shows a 240 grain bullet and 2400 with a starting load of 11.2 grains @ 698 fps and a maximum load of 13.2 grains @ 803 fps. Now these loads are in 44 special cases but you can try them in 44 magnum cases and see if satisfactory .
You could always load these in 44 special cases so the different loads would be easy to distinguish from magnum loads.
As several have said , Unique might be the more suitable powder.
Gary
|
02-25-2017, 07:13 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 531
Likes: 90
Liked 1,518 Times in 365 Posts
|
|
I never had success with less than 12 grains of 2400 in any case. You won't find data for such in the 357 Mag.
However, any .44 Special load is certainly OK in your .44 Magnum, and Alliant online currently recommends 13 grains 2400 under a 250Keith in the .44 Special....I'd load that in the .44 Mag cases.
As others have stated, there are at least a half-dozen medium burning powders that are better suited to light loads in a variety of cartridges. Get you some Alliant Unique or Win 231 and you'll find plinking happiness.
__________________
Carry.."hope" isn't a strategy
|
02-25-2017, 07:15 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,760
Likes: 4,703
Liked 2,708 Times in 908 Posts
|
|
I sympathize with op about the arthritic hands an wrists. Trail Boss is your best friend. My 29's diet over the past few years is loads consisting of Trail Boss and either 200 or 240 gr cast lead round nose bullets.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
02-25-2017, 09:53 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Badgerland
Posts: 2,371
Likes: 557
Liked 1,496 Times in 786 Posts
|
|
Trail Boss works well in reduced "target" loads but can be somewhat expensive per round.
Just about any fast to medium shotgun or pistol powder can be made to work in the 44.
As a couple of examples:
One of my lowest power accurate loads is 4.5 grains of PB (now discontinued) with the case then filled up with Grex shotgun buffer and a 240 SWC.
I get around 675 fps.
6.5-7 grains Unique will get you into the mid to high 700's fps
A nice medium power load in the 44 magnum is 8 grains of Unique or Universal and that 240 SWC.
That runs around 800-900 fps.
As has been mentioned the online and print manuals have many low power loads listed in the 44 special.
Load them in the 44 magnum brass and add .5 grain to make up for the bigger case.
Save the 2400 for full magnum loads.
My fave is 18-19 grains 2400 under a Cast Perf 260 grain WFNGC.
I vary that load depending on the brass used.
I too have some arthritis especially in my thumb joints.
A heavier gun helps a LOT with recoil and control.
A full underlug also helps with muzzle rise.
I have a 4" 629 Mountain Revolver with a light barrel that is the only gun I have ever had ported.
The ports helped immensely with the extreme muzzle rise but porting is not everyone's cuppa tea.
__________________
NEMO
"Everything 44"
|
02-25-2017, 10:57 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 8,671
Liked 3,497 Times in 1,342 Posts
|
|
OP I feel your pain. I have experimented with lighter loads in .44 mag
with 2400 and have settled on 16.6gr of 2400 with a 240gr XTP.
It is pleasant enough for my in bad shape hands and shoots minute of plate at 25yds. Recoil is comfortable and I have suffered none of the negatives with this load stated in this thread with reduced 2400 loads. It runs around 1150 fps in my 629 Classic,6.5 inch bbl.
As for a light 240gr cast load for light target work, 7gr of 231 works very well. That one runs about 850 fps in the same revolver.
Jim
Last edited by jimbo728; 02-25-2017 at 11:33 PM.
|
02-25-2017, 11:34 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,948
Likes: 38
Liked 821 Times in 490 Posts
|
|
Yes, 2400 is better suited to heavy loads in handguns. Suggest you try Unique, AA#5, Power Pistol or Universal. I've used all of these with good results in my .44 Spls.
Larry
|
02-25-2017, 11:47 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 5,346
Likes: 11,606
Liked 9,018 Times in 3,192 Posts
|
|
I've found that HP38/Win231 is great for light loads in 44 Mag. Cheap to load and easy on the wrists. 6.5 - 7.0 grains makes for a real nice, soft shooting load with 240 grain SWC bullets.
And yes, 2400 isn't a powder you want to shoot if the recoil tears your wrists and hands up. That's more suited for magnum level loads.
|
02-26-2017, 03:06 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: for now ,Texas
Posts: 2,738
Likes: 185
Liked 3,297 Times in 1,523 Posts
|
|
You mentioned " light target loads " ? 2400 is definitely not the powder to use . Yes , you can down load it some but accuracy will probably drop off and you will have unburnt powder caused by too low of pressure .
For light target loads , I wouldn't even start with any of the medium burn rate powders like Unique , Universal , Power Pistol etc . I would go either to Trail Boss , Red Dot , or nothing any slower than W231/ HP38 , Ramshot Zip etc . I believe Alliant has just come out with a new powder called " Sport Pistol " , supposedly in the burn rate comparable to W231 .
These powders will give you a nice light accurate target load w/o a lot of pain while shooting . Also , going to a lighter bullet weight definitely reduces recoil / pain in your hands . Hope this helps , good luck
Last edited by cowboy4evr; 02-26-2017 at 03:07 AM.
|
02-26-2017, 03:13 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: N.E. OKLA.
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 5,859
Liked 9,271 Times in 3,480 Posts
|
|
As mentioned, try some 44 Special loads in your 44 Mag cases & go up from there if you want.
Add about .75grs to the 44 Special receipe to offset use in the (~6%) larger 44 Mag case. 2400 is very forgiving & easily down loaded. Use regular primers.
Light loads of 2400 will be dirtier (no biggie) but in your case I think you'll notice (and like) that the slower powder gives a noticeably easier recoil impulse compared to similar power levels of fast powder. It also reduces any tendency toward leading vs. a fast powder too, if things aren't optimal between your gun & your lead bullets.
17gr/2400 & 240gr L-SWC are very accurate.
Since you already bought it, try it.
.
__________________
Waiting for the break of day
Last edited by BLUEDOT37; 02-26-2017 at 03:16 AM.
Reason: .
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
02-26-2017, 02:23 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,376
Likes: 3,183
Liked 12,712 Times in 5,669 Posts
|
|
As mentioned 2400 is a magnum powder but 13grs of powder is not all that much.
Then again there is;
Bullseye at 5 grs
Red Dot at 7 grs
Unique at 8 grs
but who's counting ?
|
02-26-2017, 02:25 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,836
Likes: 2,665
Liked 3,927 Times in 2,366 Posts
|
|
Just the wrong powder for light loads. About 16gr with a mag primer is about as low as i would go, leaves too much unburned powder below thar. You need a medium burner like unique, wsf, be86 for lighter loads, std primers work fine.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Last edited by fredj338; 02-26-2017 at 02:29 PM.
|
02-26-2017, 03:23 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 8
Likes: 22
Liked 8 Times in 3 Posts
|
|
Thanks to all of you kind folks for the rapid responses. I'll experiment with the 2400 in .44 Mag cases loaded to .44 Special specs starting at approx. 11.2 grains with that 240 gr. SWC as stated in the Lyman manual. Glad I only purchased 1 lb., and I'll save the remaining previous loaded "hot" rounds for range "friends" to shoot
Thanks again!
|
02-26-2017, 11:13 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,483
Likes: 236
Liked 28,948 Times in 14,015 Posts
|
|
The best bet in your situation is to use 200 grain lead bullets with 6 to 7 grains of Bullseye, Red Dot, or 700-X. Essentially a Cowboy load. Or use any .44 Special-equivalent load. Do not use 2400.
|
02-27-2017, 03:01 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Posts: 1,750
Likes: 7
Liked 657 Times in 369 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Similar request for data relative to a .357 mag casings using 158 grain (Keith style) SWC with the 2400 powder.
|
I think that you'll find that the maximum charge weight of 2400 below a 158 grain SWC will be 14.0 grains. Start 10% lower. Just for future reference, Keith's design for a .38 caliber SWC would be Lyman's #358429 or H&G #43. Both weigh 173 grains nominal, not 158 grains. All SWC designs are not Keith type bullets.
Bruce
|
02-27-2017, 10:08 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: for now ,Texas
Posts: 2,738
Likes: 185
Liked 3,297 Times in 1,523 Posts
|
|
BruceM , thank you for correcting the assumption that all swc's are a keith bullet . I have posted so many times the difference that quite frankly , I'm just tired of it . Many times you see someone post " Keith type " . It's either a " Keith " bullet or it isn't . There's no in between type .
I think the biggest misconception is in the 44 magnum. Some think that using any 240 gr bullet , cast or jacketed on top of 22 grs of 2400 is shooting " the Keith load " , which is " BS " . His load of 22 grs of 2400 was using " HIS " bullet , HG 503 - 245gr swc with it's short shank and long nose . The Lyman 429421 is also an acceptable version of Elmers design .
Last edited by cowboy4evr; 02-27-2017 at 10:11 AM.
|
02-27-2017, 11:47 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,350
Likes: 2,854
Liked 2,765 Times in 1,160 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbsphoto
On recommendation, I recently purchased Alliant 2400 for reloading .44 mag casings using 240 grain (Keith style) SWC only to discover I could find little data for this bullet. Lyman Cast Bullet Manual, 4th Edition, stated a starting load of 18.5 grains, but it was too spicy for my arthritic hands to be any fun shooting paper. Hoping for suggestions to lighten this load for fun comfortable target practice without the worry of squibs.
Similar request for data relative to a .357 mag casings using 158 grain (Keith style) SWC with the 2400 powder.
Thanks folks!
|
Good morning,
I would hold onto that 2400 for true magnum loads. 2400 is awesome for those and for awhile has been scarce. Hopefully that has changed, but I digress.
For some pleasant and still accurate range loads here are some of the following that I like with coated or lubed 240LSWC...
* 240LSWC 8.0gr of Unique in 44mag case CCI300/FED150 1.610" should yield just at or slightly over 1000fps out of 6.5"+ bbl
* 240LSWC 7.0gr of 700X in 44mag case CCI300/FED150 1.610" 980fps avg 6.5" bbl
* 240LSWC 6.2gr of Red Dot or Promo in 44mag case CCI300/FED150 1.610" avg 882fps 6" bbl
|
02-28-2017, 01:58 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Posts: 1,750
Likes: 7
Liked 657 Times in 369 Posts
|
|
Quote:
The Lyman 429421 is also an acceptable version of Elmers design .
|
The Ideal and earlier Lyman molds have a round grease groove and are not really true to Keith's design. Later production Lyman 429421 molds have the square grease groove. The round grease groove allows bullets to drop from the mold easier. The square grease groove carries more lubricant.
Bruce
|
02-28-2017, 06:24 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Liked 46 Times in 31 Posts
|
|
HP 38/231 and Green Dot are both great for lite .44 mag loads, one of my favorits is 7 gr of Green with a 250K K-SWC. Nice easy load. Roughly a .44 special load in a magnum case.
|
02-28-2017, 07:29 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 2,370
Likes: 497
Liked 943 Times in 518 Posts
|
|
I don't shoot 44 mag loads, but for the 357 load I'd suggest a switch to H110 and try around 14.5 grains with a magnum primer.
|
02-28-2017, 08:40 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Badgerland
Posts: 2,371
Likes: 557
Liked 1,496 Times in 786 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyo5
I don't shoot 44 mag loads, but for the 357 load I'd suggest a switch to H110 and try around 14.5 grains with a magnum primer.
|
The OP is looking for light target loads.
That is a full power magnum load with 158 or 170 grain bullets.
H110 is even less of a reduced load powder than 2400.
It has long been recommended by the manufacturer to never reduce H110/W296 loads by more than 10%.
IMR4227 would make a better lower velocity load (using slow powder) if one didn't mind the unburned residue.
__________________
NEMO
"Everything 44"
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|