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Old 02-27-2017, 12:12 PM
O.G. O.G. is offline
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Default Swagg dowen bullets ?

Can i swagg dowen .223 bullets (55 grain fmc) to .222 useing a suitable die & ptess ?
Can it be done in other calibers ?
Ex. : 0.41 mag. Bullet to .40 s&w ?
Thanks for any info on that subject !!
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Old 02-27-2017, 12:23 PM
colorado plainsman colorado plainsman is offline
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I would save yourself a lot of work as there are several good choices for 222 rem and 40 bullets that are out there.
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Old 02-27-2017, 12:36 PM
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Thanks,but since i have a lot of .223 bullets and .222 are gon'a cost me some bucks , is there a way to convert ?
Rrgards
O.g.

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Old 02-27-2017, 12:38 PM
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I'd be concerned that with a FMJ bullet, after swagging the jacket would spring back more than the lead core, leaving the core loose. It also seems it would take quite a bit of force to do this, requiring a substantial press.

Even with lead bullets, sizing more than about .005" starts getting difficult and you start having to do it in steps with multiple dies.

Sounds like a lot of effort if it's not absolutely necessary.
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Old 02-27-2017, 12:52 PM
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Thats a point !!
The gap is .001 = 0.00254 mm
Can that gap be dune in one stroke ?
Are there any dies made for that purpose ?
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by O.G. View Post
Can i swagg dowen .223 bullets (55 grain fmc) to .222 useing a suitable die & ptess ?
Can it be done in other calibers ?
Ex. : 0.41 mag. Bullet to .40 s&w ?
Thanks for any info on that subject !!
O.g.

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Yes you can swage down bullets slightly, but what are you trying to accomplish? I am amazed no one else asked!!

The only cartridges that uses .222" bullets are .22 rimfire and the .22 Rem Jet. If you are going to load .222 Remington this uses .224" bullets.

If you have an old .22 Hornet, made back in the 1930s, and it was made with a .22 rimfire barrel go ahead and shoot the .223 bullets! If you have a factory Hornet more recent than the 1950s it will have a .224 barrel too!

And, while we are at it, the only .223" Hornet bullets I am aware of is 40-45 grain. If you have 55 grain bullets they are .224" too. It may seem counter-intuitive to you but virtually all of the various .22 caliber rifles from the .222 Rem, .223 Rem, all .224s, and .225 Winchester use .224" bullets, regardless of what the cartridge is named.

Before you begin reloading ammunition you need to do a lot more research on the subject before you hut yourself!
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:16 PM
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I salute you ALK for your answer !
You are truely a master (my master in blsck powder back in 2012)
Is 22-250 bullet also .224 ???
Sure im' gon'a learn alot before reloading it !
Best rrgards
O.g.
Israel

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Old 02-27-2017, 01:19 PM
robertrwalsh robertrwalsh is offline
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I have done it with lead and plated bullets fairly often. Never tried it with FMJ bullets.
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Alk8944 View Post
Yes you can swage down bullets slightly, but what are you trying to accomplish? I am amazed no one else asked!!

The only cartridges that uses .222" bullets are .22 rimfire and the .22 Rem Jet. If you are going to load .222 Remington this uses .224" bullets.

If you have an old .22 Hornet, made back in the 1930s, and it was made with a .22 rimfire barrel go ahead and shoot the .223 bullets! If you have a factory Hornet more recent than the 1950s it will have a .224 barrel too!

And, while we are at it, the only .223" Hornet bullets I am aware of is 40-45 grain. If you have 55 grain bullets they are .224" too. It may seem counter-intuitive to you but virtually all of the various .22 caliber rifles from the .222 Rem, .223 Rem, all .224s, and .225 Winchester use .224" bullets, regardless of what the cartridge is named.

Before you begin reloading ammunition you need to do a lot more research on the subject before you hut yourself!
Most rimfire is even larger than .222. The ones i've checked run .223 to .224. Usually CCI is .224
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:14 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is online now
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Most rimfire is even larger than .222. The ones i've checked run .223 to .224. Usually CCI is .224
Don't confuse the cartridge bullet diameter with the rifle bore and lands diameter. Many cartridges are made a little large, so they perform well in older or worn out firearms.

As to the OP's question. I have swaged jacketed bullets from .338 to .330 for an old European military rifle. Complete core separation happened, the ammo was the worst I ever shot from that rifle (and I was using a proven "Good" load). The lead goes down to a diameter inside the jacket and , depending on alloy, my spring back .0005 or less. The jacket goes down to the die diameter and also depending on alloy may spring back up to .004. I have had cores "Rattle" around inside the jacket. It is a total waste of resources!

On lead bullets, it is a different story! I have a 300 grain 45-70 bullet mold, with a harder alloy it casts to .467". It is all I can do to size them to .459". I size all of those castings to .459, then size some of them again to .454 or .452 for use in 45 Colt. Lots of work, but saved me from buying another mold! If you ever try this, smear some bullet lube on the first to reduce a little of the friction.

As to the question about "Are 22-250's in .224" also?" Yes as stated, all 22 center fire rifle cartridges made post WW II are in .224. There are some pistol rounds that are exceptions. There is ONE exception to that rule: 22 Savage High Power. It uses a .228 bullet (Hornady was the only place you could get them for years,) and these are Semi-Round Nosed and usually 80 grains. You won't confuse them for anything else!

Now onto your 22-250. These rifles (of almost any brand) are very accurate! 22 FMJ bullets are of mass production to be cheep, and are of usually less than stellar accuracy! My favorite bullet for all of the medium case sized 22 Center Fire Cartridges is a 50 grain polymer tipped bullet. There are 4 brands; Hornady, Sierra, Nosler, and Combined Technologies (Winchester & Nosler). They are mostly the same price with the CT's being the most expensive. Of my 12 firearms (9 rifles and 3 Contender barrels) every one has a preference as to which one it likes, except, I have 1 rifle that likes two brand equally well. So I keep boxes of each brand in stock, and whatever I have the most of, I use for load development. Then I load up 5 of each bullet with that best load and see which the gun likes best. It is extremely unusual for a gun to like 2. I have a 1:9 twist Savage 223, that doesn't like any bullet that light! I likes 75 grain A-Max (Hornady) bullet and shoots them very well!

Sierra has a very good loading manual. It has a recommend load for accuracy for every cartridge, THIS is where I start (and usually am satisfied with it!) 22-250, if a well used rifle, can have an eroded throat, that may require seating the bullet out further. Then I go for the brand selection.

Have fun finding out just how well your gun can shoot!

Ivan
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:12 PM
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Most 22 center fire are 0.224". Even bullets for the 222rem & rem mag are 0.224". Yes they can be swaged down to 0.222", but what are you shooting them in?
I would hesitate to swage 0.410" bullet all the way to 0.400", probably too much distortion & you would certainly want to do it in steps. I size 300gr 0.430" 44mag to 0.423" bullets for my 404jeffery in two steps. They shoot 2moa, good enough for a cheap practice bullet.
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:34 PM
reddog81 reddog81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
Don't confuse the cartridge bullet diameter with the rifle bore and lands diameter. Many cartridges are made a little large, so they perform well in older or worn out firearms.


Ivan
I wasn't confused about anything. I was talking about bullets, the original post was about bullets and ALK's post I quoted was for the most part about bullets...

Yeah it's possible to size lead down, but honestly anything above a .006 reduction requires LOTS of force and distorts the bullet quite a bit. All that displaced lead has to go somewhere and the resulting bullets don't look like something I'd want to shoot.

With a jacketed bullet I wouldn't hesitate to try a .001 reduction. Assuming there was a valid reason for doing so. It might work it might not...
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:51 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
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I do swage my own with tooling from Corbin.While lead has almost no springback,you might find that it ain't so with jacket material.Like written above,you will encounter jacket to core separation;none too good for accuracy and terminal performance if meat getting is the objective.
!c
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Old 02-27-2017, 04:56 PM
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If you are looking for bullets to shoot in a .222 Remington, they shoot the same bullets as the 5.56 mm or the .223. They are all .224 diameter.
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Old 02-28-2017, 02:25 AM
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Thank you all replayers !!due to the info i got here i will re-consider all the idea !!! Regards o.g.

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Old 02-28-2017, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by O.G. View Post
I salute you ALK for your answer !
You are truely a master (my master in blsck powder back in 2012)
Is 22-250 bullet also .224 ???
Sure im' gon'a learn alot before reloading it !
Best rrgards
O.g.
Israel

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Ofer,

I didn't realize this was you! I hope you have been well. I was really sorry for the rainy day 5 years ago, I would have loved to spend more time with you! I didn't realize it had been that long!

Yes, with the couple of exceptions noted all center-fire rifles that are designated as .22 caliber anything use .224 diameter bullets. There is one other exception and that is the old .22 Savage Hi-Power, that it is extremely unlikely you would come across. This one uses a .228" bullet that is nearly impossible to find.
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Old 03-01-2017, 03:46 PM
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YES SIR !
I may be mistaken 4 years ago ??
i will also love to see you again and i will try to go to USA again !!!
Is your adress and tetephone the same ?
Ofer

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Old 03-01-2017, 05:13 PM
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YES SIR !
I may be mistaken 4 years ago ??
i will also love to see you again and i will try to go to USA again !!!
Is your adress and tetephone the same ?
Ofer

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Ofer,

The address is the same but I only use the cell number now, I will send you a PM. I would hope you get back to the US again, I would enjoy seeing you again.

Al
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Old 03-02-2017, 12:30 PM
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Dear AL !
It will be great pleasure for me too !
I will chck our planes for 2018
I will inform you ASAP !
BEST REGARDS
your friend
Ofer

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Old 03-02-2017, 02:01 PM
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To answer the original question, yep you can swage .223" bullets to .222". I have sized down some .323" bullets to .318" to fit an Enfield I have. I used a "custom" Lee push through die and lubed the bullets with STP. It was a job, but I wanted to handload some jacketed bullets for my rifle. with a .318" groove diameter and could not find any commercially.

FWIW; I believe the bullets for 5.45x39 (AK 74) is .221"...

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Old 03-02-2017, 03:12 PM
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Thank's mikld !
What is the force needed ? 1-2-3 ton , more/less ?
How do you order a spcific die ?
Regards
O.g

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Old 03-03-2017, 02:28 PM
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Unfortunately, Lee doesn't make a push through die for .222". You'll have to find someone who makes custom diameter bullet sizing dies. I found one via google "Buckshot's" Custom Sizing Dies - Mountain Molds

I didn't measure the force needed to swage .005", but .001" will hardly be noticable.

While I won't recommend it to a reloader, I might try the .223" bullets in a .222" gun. One half of one thousandths, .0005" on each side of the bullet prolly won't make any difference in pressures.
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:58 PM
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Thank's a lot mikld !
Regarding the link you sent
What press is used in bullet sizing dies ?
Regards
O.g.

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Old 04-20-2017, 08:50 PM
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Default A supplier....

A supplier of heavy plated bullets might be able to accommodate you. i see that XTREME Bullets form the bullet then strike the bullet for a final finish. Maybe they can strike a thousandth smaller.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:32 PM
Walter Rego Walter Rego is offline
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Well since the .22 Jet was mentioned, the idea of swaging down jacketed bullets has occurred to me as well. The cartridge requires .222" diameter bullets. Hornady was the only maker and the haven't made then in several years. Too busy making bullets for AR's I assume.
Sierra makes a .223" 40 grain Hornet bullet, SKU# 1100 but they are difficult to find and possibly out of production as well. Some people report that as long as you are not loading the .22 Jet to the max, there is no problem shooting .223" bullets in it.
I would guess that swaging a lightly constructed bullet that is designed for varminting down by .001" or .002" would not require a lot of pressure with a decent press. If the supply of Sierra .223" bullets also goes the way of the dodo and we want to keep our .22 Jets shooting, swaging may be the only option. Hopefully accuracy wouldn't go out the window from jacket/core separation in the swaging process. Experiments will be in order.

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Old 04-21-2017, 10:37 PM
M E Morrison M E Morrison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenwolde View Post
I'd be concerned that with a FMJ bullet, after swagging the jacket would spring back more than the lead core, leaving the core loose. It also seems it would take quite a bit of force to do this, requiring a substantial press.

Even with lead bullets, sizing more than about .005" starts getting difficult and you start having to do it in steps with multiple dies.

Sounds like a lot of effort if it's not absolutely necessary.

I have read several reports on this happening. Depending on your intended usage, it may or may not be a problem.
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Old 04-29-2017, 12:18 AM
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I believe the proper term is " swage ".

Rhymes with " gauge ".
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Old 05-03-2017, 12:46 AM
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Unfortunately, Lee doesn't make a push through die for .222". You'll have to find someone who makes custom diameter bullet sizing dies. I found one via google "Buckshot's" Custom Sizing Dies - Mountain Molds

....

LEE reloading will make on order any size push through bullet sizer die up to .575.
Custom Lube and Size Kit - Lee Precision

Buckshots Custom sizer dies are excellent also.

I use a Lee .401 sizer that I opened up to .407 to size 41Mag bullets (.410d) down for use in loading the .401 WSL Rifle.
Not much effort pushing even jacketed bullets through the die using a Lyman Orange Crusher Press.
Lead bullets are lubed with Alox to size them. Jacketed bullets I use Imperial Sizing Die Wax.
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Old 05-03-2017, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
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To answer the original question, yep you can swage .223" bullets to .222". I have sized down some .323" bullets to .318" to fit an Enfield I have. I used a "custom" Lee push through die and lubed the bullets with STP. It was a job, but I wanted to handload some jacketed bullets for my rifle. with a .318" groove diameter and could not find any commercially.
During WWI, a large number of the German Model 88 commission rifles with the early 8x57 J .318" barrels were modified by the Germans to shoot the newer 8x57 JS round with the .323" bullet. How? Simply by enlarging the chamber throat diameter slightly so the 8x57 JS cartridge case neck would have some room to expand upon firing. Then they stamped "S" on the front receiver ring. It worked fine. I once had one of those and fired a lot of 8x57 JS military ammo through it without incident. In summary, if you happen to have a .222 diameter barrel, you won't have any problem shooting .223 bullets in it.

In Hatcher's Notebook, Hatcher relates firing .45 ACP rounds in a Springfield '03 rifle. Nothing bad happened. The .45 bullet just squeezes down to .30 to exit the barrel. That experiment I have not tried, nor do I plan to.
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Old 05-06-2017, 04:31 PM
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THANKS TO ALL REPLAYERS !!!
one question and so much knowledge i got in replay !
Thank you all-god bless you !
O.g.

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