In Modern Reloading 2nd Edition by Richard Lee in the 38 special 158 grain lead bullet one load calls for "universal" and another calls for "clays". Are these the same? My Hodgdon Universal Clays Technology would make me think that. Thanks for any help on this.
Greg

No, they are different powders.

If I recall correctly today's "Clays" is the old "Universal Clays" and the new "Universal" is a slightly different shotgun/pistol powder. But with reloading powders one must be certain of what is what. So, I suggest you call Hodgdon and ask them . ...............

Absolutely wrong. "Universal" is the same as the old Universal Clays. "Clays" is the same as the older Clays. They are, and always have been entirely different powders.

Note: There are three "Clays" powders; Universal, Clays, and International. All have distinctly different burning rates.

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Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

Thanks, I'll look into this with Hodgdon.

OK, I see on Hodgdons website their 3 "Clays" powders. I see that " universal" is what I have.
Thanks, Greg

Your "Universal" style Clays power is a keeper.

It is very close to Alliant Unique in shotgun and pistol data.
Enjoy.

Thanks Ed,
I have Unique too. I will be using it in 38, 357, 45acp, and 9mm.

Some times the labels can be confusing to people that see this powder alone and not with the others.
there is;
Clays
Clays Universal
Clays International
and if that is not enough to mess with you......
there is Clay Dot !!

Read those labels twice, folks........... Maybe three times.

Very, very diff powders. One of the more stupid things Hodgdon has ever done was the naming of the CLays series. Most refer to Universal Clays as just Universal.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I don't remember how I got started using Universal Clays, but it is all I have ever used for 20 ga. and 28 ga. It was virtually off the market for several years when the Australian manufacturer's dryer burned up, made worse by the "buy anything" Obama years. I sort of forgot about it and quit shooting skeet. When it returned to the market I was gratified to see the loading recipes still printed on the canister, one of Hodgdon's better ideas. I love the stuff because it burns so clean, like lighter fluid I always say.

Yep.
Universal is also a great substitute for Unique which is still a little hard to find.
It's my go-to powder now for 44 special and magnum target loads when I am not using CSB-1.
5.5-7 grains in the special
6.5-8 grains in the magnum
Universal's behavior is not exactly identical to Unique especially at the high end so loads must still be worked up
but it meters better and may burn cleaner in the low pressure loads.
Their burn rates are very close.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

If you want a near identical replacement for Unique, try WSF. I find it about 1/10gr slower than Unique in every application. It also meters great & unlike Universal, I get good lead bullet accuracy. Univ is great with plated or jacketed but has always lacked with lead bullets for me.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO