Fun topic I wanted to write about, and how I got sucked into BPCR.

This is about a man I used to discuss the Korean War at length with while we were blessed with his present on this earth. Let’s call him Mike for this discussion.

Mike was a Infantryman in the Army during the Korean War. A vet shot in the back during the retrea...errrrr, strategic fall back of the Chosen Reservoir around December of 1950 in North Korea. He received what the medics called a “Lucky” shot, through the back, between two ribs, and exit out the chest. The result was two holes and a punctured lung. No bone fragmentation that could have proven fatal. His son said this:
"Dad was shot through his lung cavity missing his lung as the shot went through him during an exhale otherwise he probably would have drown in the blood from his lungs bleeding.In his back and out his shoulder...armour piercing round.The only handicap was a shortened tendon and he couldn't hold his arm above his head tight up to his ear...almost but no quite......Disability check was like $75. that was the same as their house payment at the time. North Koren helped to pay for my parents house dad used to joke ...LoL"

The war was over for Mike. He returned to Tacoma WA to become a very successful Wood Shop teacher for the Tacoma school district for over 30 years.

Upon return to Tacoma once he healed, Mike and his brother purchased two Springfield Trapdoors from a Mil Surp store in Tacoma near the Ft. Lewis base. Mike maintained possession of his trapdoor until his death in the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century however his brother’s was stolen from his home.
My good friend had his father’s rifle properly stored in a safe for years. He said his dad was a reloader and caster back in the day. They shot muzzleloaders , BPCR and pistols as sport.

I was privileged to pay for and accept Mike’s rifle from my good friend recently when he moved to Oz in 2013. The rifle was in beautiful condition and Keith (Trapdoor Keith when he was alive) gave me extensive history on the firearm saying it came from the Oregon National Guard(1894) and declared surplus sometime after that. How accurate Keith's information, I do not know. But it was part of the story I did not know.

I decided to pull apart one of the bullets his father made that came with this aquisition. Best I can tell, sometime between 1951 and 1965 these bullets were made when he was actively reloading/casting and shooting. He had at least 80 rounds like this.

The first thing I noticed was a fine thin film of lacquer (assumed) peeling off these primer. The winchester brass , well, I'm unsure of the date but it is in great shape. I do not know the year but I would guess it's from between 1925 and 1960.


The 500 grain bullet I pulled apart. (which weighed 525 gr)


I know that Mike used this powder back in his day as it came with the rifle and bullets. Matter of fact, I tested this powder and it was fit for shooting.


Photo of the powder after pulling the bullet. Not much crushing, in very good shape.



Photo of the bullet, and lube, still in tact, if not darked by the ages.


The bullet weighed in at 523 gr.


A modern day bullet by Dan the Bullet Man in 500 gr, weighs in at 528 gr. For the record, my 500 gr Lyman mold (457125) casts at 510 grs with 20-1.


3 bullets. Top is topic bullet. Middle is Bull Shop bullet. Bottom is my cast bullet (waiting on SPG lube in the mail!)


And his two bullet types, as they were.


These are my test bullets (Both Lyman molds) I am testing with others in various crimp/BP/Smokeless configurations.



Mike himself, doing what he loved to do! Teach woodworking!



Mike's rifle (Which I am in possession of)






I think somewhere up there, he's looking down and smiling at me. I feel that spirit!

If the box is original to the cartridges, they are older than 1951. The two-piece Winchester box style shown had disappeared for most cartridges by 1930. The last two-piece box used by Winchester for .30-'06 and 7.62 Russian was sometime in the early 1930s. I don't think Winchester ever put any clear lacquer on cartridges or primers. Some collectors have been known to lacquer cases to prevent tarnishing, just as you see various other brass fixtures (doorknobs, hinges, drawer pulls, etc.) lacquered for the same reason.

Most of the brass was original to the box based on the stamps but the loads were hand loaded by Mike.

Beautiful rifle, nice story. Good shooting!

Thanks for the post. I've been planning on reloading 45-70's as my next caliber. Might even try casting the bullets, as I've researched the process many times, but just haven't done it.

I checked in Giles & Shuey's book on Winchester cartridge boxes. Your boxes may really be antiques. After 1893, the cartridge drawing on the box said, in three lines: .45-70-405 - WINCHESTER - MODEL 1886. Yours seems to say, in two lines: .45-70-405 - U. S. GOVERNMENT, therefore likely to be pre-1894. Unfortunately, Giles & Shuey does not have a picture of a .45-70 box exactly like yours. If you posted some good pictures of all sides of your box, it might be possible to determine some better information. Your boxes alone could be very valuable.
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I went back and looked at your box pictures again, noting that, regarding primers, "Center Fire" was used, not the earlier "Central Fire." That change in primer terminology was made by Winchester about 1898. But it does not explain the picture using the two-line description instead of the post-1893 three-line.

Here's one I resurrected from my Grand Dad's homestead. He bought it from Bannerman's for $7.50 just after the turn of the last century. It sat untouched out in the barn for 45 years.I found it as a kid when the grandparents abandoned the homestead and moved to town.
My Dad said I was too young to have a gun like that and put it in a closet.
It sat in a closet in my folks house for another 40 years until I found it when I moved back to the ranch.

The barrel was full of rust and the stock was ruined too.
It took a new stock and new unfired barrel, but I've got a shooter now.
I used it as a hunting rifle for years and killed antelope, mule deer, and elk with it.
It's my favorite rifle.

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Eccentric old coot

Maybe I am overly nervous, but I don't think I would shoot any of that ammo for safety reasons.

Also be nice to keep it as is - kind of a tribute to Mike.

Man if guns could talk. Great story

Cory

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Cory
SWCA #3015 SWHF #465

My experience with old (military) .45-70 brass cases from the 19th century is that they are unusually hard and very difficult to resize. And when fired, they often split. It's surprising, but today's Large Rifle primers still fit fine in those old Frankford Arsenal primer pockets.

I believe I would retire the old WRA cases and buy some new brass to reload. They are not too difficult to find.

Beautiful! It's a shame it doesn't have the original stock and barrel but hey, it's a working rifle!

Already done that 4 years ago. I use Starline brass.

I do admit, I reloaded 32 cases in Mike's original Winchester cases after wet tumbling, annealing and resizing. Only one split on the lip when mouth flaring. Not bad for over 80 year old brass!

I'll keep these "New Old Stock" reloaded cartridges (with Black Powder) in their original boxes (I have several from the 1800s to early 1900s) for the next generation (My sons) to explore in 50 years.

There were more Springfield Trapdoors made than Winchester 1873 rifles. It's not like this is a rare rifle. But I get what you're saying.

I have a no-virgins policy. Guns are like engines, the longer they sit without being exercised, the more run down they'll be!

That said, I laugh when I hear the term "The gun that won the West" (Winchester 1873) when in REALITY it was the Sharps, The Trapdoors, the rifles that took buffalo down. These large bore rifles took the Indians food off their table thus winning the West because white men were not capable of taking on Indians on horseback and winning. We had to go after the food supply first.
History!

When the .45-70 trapdoor rifles replaced the early .50-70 trapdoors in Army service, the Army was giving away the old .50-70 rifles plus ammo to anyone who wanted to use them for Buffalo hunting, the reason being that eradication of the Buffalo meant eradication of the Indians. And apparently the .50-70 was very effective on Buffalo. Buffalo Bill's favorite Buffalo rifle was a .50-70 trapdoor, he called it "Lucretia Borgia" because it was so deadly.

Nice story. I have not loaded for the 45-70 with black powder but I do load with AA5744 and a BP substitute at times.

My Trapdoor rifle was also made in 1884 and its a great gun.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Archangel, I use a 405 gr bullet with 26 gr of AA5744 that travels 1325 fps.
With the 500 gr, I use 62 grs of BP, and it travels 1150 fps.

Very fun to load black powder. Time consuming, but rewarding!
Just don't do it in a lightning storm!