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Old 03-10-2017, 10:56 AM
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Will be loading 41 Mag ammo soon and need your experiences with copper plated projectiles in the 1150fps to 1300fps range.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:18 AM
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Admittedly limited use of anything but cast lead; about 5% of my use has been plated or jacketed. Didn't discern any advantage for my plinking/range games.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:25 AM
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I have used a few thousand of the Berry's 41 Magnum 210s, but I have only run them on top of 7.6 grains of 231 so I doubt this gets up into your velocity range.

Above about 1150-1200 FPS I do not use plated in any caliber.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:59 AM
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if you are looking for 1,300 fps I would use jacketed bullets. the Hornady 210 gr hp is a good bullet. you might check with Midway to see if they still have the Remington 210 gr sp as it is a good bullet also and might be a little cheaper
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:01 PM
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You should go to the manufacturers website, all plated bullets aren't created equal, some are much thicker plating and will handle magnum velocities, others are thinner and standard velocities are recommended. Still others are lightly copper washed, that I would use lead data for.
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:14 PM
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I have a bunch of xtreme's 210 grain plated. My understanding is you can use load data for cast loads with plated (according to their site and I think Berry says the same thing). I know if you talk to Berry they have some loads they recommend. I don't know if plated bullets are intended to go much faster than 1000-1100 fps. I use a load with unique that is a hair over 1000. Some have said that you can use jacketed load data, start at the minimum and decrease by 10%. Take that with a grain of salt.

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Old 03-10-2017, 12:42 PM
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Consider a good lead bullet instead. Nothing a plated bullet offers over lead but higher cost & more finicky loading. None of my magnums see anything but lead bullets, 900-1400fps.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:02 PM
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You should go to the manufacturers website, all plated bullets aren't created equal, some are much thicker plating and will handle magnum velocities, others are thinner and standard velocities are recommended. Still others are lightly copper washed, that I would use lead data for.
You're exactly right. Plated bullet construction varies considerably.

I've been using X-Treme's Heavy Plate Concave Base bullets in the 10mm 1911s, which have been chronographed at up to 1400fps, with no problems.

I went to order their 210 grain 41 Mag bullets and noted these bullets appeared to be the standard "don't exceed 1200 fps" type. So I called customer service and asked what's the maximum velocity these bullets are rated for. Answer: That's a good question. Please email your question to Freedom Munitions and the technical staff will get back to you in 2 or 3 days. (No answer 4 days later. Quite disappointed!)

So I generated this thread in the hopes that someone has the answer... and have ordered 210 grain .410" plated bullets from their competition which may become my go to source.

And as for hard cast lead bullets, no thanks, I'm not interested.

I currently load and shoot .451" 200 grain H&G #68 and 240 grain hard cast LSWCs at 900-950 fps... and hate de-leading the barrels.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:12 PM
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In my .$$ magnum load testing. I found PowerBond bullets to be one of the thickest plating of all the ones I've tried. The price is very close to copper jacketed, so for the money I have switched to jacketed. But if you can get PowerBond at a good price that would be the ticket
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:20 PM
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I've been using Berry's for many years in several different calibers including .41 Magnum.

4" 57

8.0/ Unique/ 950 fps

9.0/ Unique/ 1100 fps

10.0/ Unique/ 1180 fps

22.0/ H110/ 1250 fps

Zero problems and have recovered bullets from a berm still totally intact...

And I also put the same heavy crimp on .41s that I do on jacketed and cast bullets.

Have run Berry's .380 RN-HB at 1400 from a .38 Super...again no problems..

Bob

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Old 03-10-2017, 03:24 PM
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I've been using Berry's for many years in several different calibers including .41 Magnum.

4" 57

8.0/ Unique/ 950 fps

9.0/ Unique/ 1100 fps

10.0/ Unique/ 1180 fps

22.0/ H110/ 1250 fps

Zero problems and have recovered bullets from a berm still totally intact...

Bob
That is pretty much the same as what I see with the xtreme 41s that I have, from a 7.5" Blackhawk.

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Old 03-10-2017, 07:12 PM
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re: "and hate de-leading the barrels"
the last time I had consistent leading problems was back in my IHMSA days when hotter/faster/bigger blast was my goal.

I've had exactly 2 episodes of leading in the last 20 years with my big bore revolvers. I shoot lead about 95% of the time. Seldom have wanted the velocities you post, as I always got ....leading....

Even with quality FMJ 44 caliber IHMSA loads (mostly 1400+++) I suffered for a while before learning there was some other answer.

Good luck, I'd love to learn what you come up with that meets those goals.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:36 PM
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Only shoot lead in mine:Saeco SWC that comes out at 223gr.Not very hard but the gun spits them out at a little over 1300FPS out of my 5 1/2''bbl.No leading and as accurate as one of my friend whose got a 8 3/8 657; he shoots jacketed bullets only.Needless to say he's a wealthier man than I.
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Old 03-11-2017, 01:17 AM
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And as for hard cast lead bullets, no thanks, I'm not interested.

I currently load and shoot .451" 200 grain H&G #68 and 240 grain hard cast LSWCs at 900-950 fps... and hate de-leading the barrels.
If you get leading at such low vel. You are doing something very wrong. Bullet fit is king with lead, even plated for best results.
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Old 03-11-2017, 01:33 AM
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As luck would have it, I had to get off the dime and ordered 500 Berry's 210 grain plated FP .410" bullets about 10:00 this morning.

At 1:52 pm this afternoon X-Treme/Freedom Munitions finally got back to me. Their plated .410" FP bullet will work fine to 1300 fps as long as cartridge pressures don't exceed SAMI specs.
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Old 03-11-2017, 02:51 AM
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I've been happy with Xtreme's bullets in all my handguns. They're all I use in my range loads.

It's noteworthy that their 41Mag & 44Mag bullets are just standard plated & rated to 1200fps. Unlike in other calibers, they don't have any heavy plated bullets (1500fps) in either of these calibers.

I don't load them over their rated max. spped.

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Old 03-11-2017, 11:04 AM
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If you get leading at such low vel. You are doing something very wrong. Bullet fit is king with lead, even plated for best results.
Tell me the secret. What am I doing very wrong?

Am I using the wrong hard cast bullets? Who's should I try besides Berry's, MBC, Meister, or X-Treme.

For years folks have told me that their gun(s) don't lead with their favorite hard cast bullets and I must be doing something (very?) wrong.

All my gun barrels lead, regardless of who makes the bullets or the Brinell Hardness Number (BHN.) Some say my barrels must be rough. Do you think this includes the Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, and Bar-Sto barrels?

As for folks on line, I really don't know. As for locals, Mr. Lewis' Lead Remover continues to drag lead out of their "my gun doesn't lead" barrels.

Seriously, tell me what I'm doing wrong 'cause the Meister or MBC 200 grain H&G #68 hard cast bullet is extremely accurate in the Wilson Combat CQB, Dan Wesson PM7-45, Bar-Sto barreled Colt Gold Cup, and Kimber UC II 45s.

Missouri Bullet Company
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:11 AM
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Fredj338 is " spot on " correct . "Fit is King " . I shoot nothing but cast and have been for yrs (can't afford the fancy bullets) . When the fit is right , there will be no leading . I cast and size my own stuff so I get the size I need . My 38/357's get .3585 , 41 mag gets .411 , 44's get .4315 , 45Colt gets .454 . The new " EDM " rifling does NOT cause leading nor does it cause accuracy problems . I have numerous newer Smith's , very accurate. In my 45 auto's , they get .454 .
If your barrel on your 45 auto's " groove diameter is .452 " , then you will need a cast bullet 1-2 thousandths larger . That's why I cast / size .454 for my 45acp's . Barrel roughness could be a problem , but I would first make sure you have the correct size cast bullet . I don't like that hard " crayon " lube most commercial casters use . Yrs ago , before I started casting and sizing my own I would tumble lube the commercial stuff in Lee's " Alox " , it definitely helped reduce the lead in a barrel by providing a better lube .
Remember , " Chore Boy " is the secret to removing lead from a barrel . It 's a pure copper scouring pad so just cut a small piece , wrap it around an old bore brush . In just a couple of min's you will remove all the lead . Do NOT buy any other brand as they are usually steel just coated in copper and will harm your barrel . " Chore Boy " is usually available at most walmarts , ace hdwe etc .

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Old 03-11-2017, 02:05 PM
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Fredj338 is " spot on " correct . "Fit is King " . I shoot nothing but cast and have been for yrs (can't afford the fancy bullets) . When the fit is right , there will be no leading . I cast and size my own stuff so I get the size I need . My 38/357's get .3585 , 41 mag gets .411 , 44's get .4315 , 45Colt gets .454 . The new " EDM " rifling does NOT cause leading nor does it cause accuracy problems . I have numerous newer Smith's , very accurate. In my 45 auto's , they get .454 .
If your barrel on your 45 auto's " groove diameter is .452 " , then you will need a cast bullet 1-2 thousandths larger . That's why I cast / size .454 for my 45acp's . Barrel roughness could be a problem , but I would first make sure you have the correct size cast bullet . I don't like that hard " crayon " lube most commercial casters use . Yrs ago , before I started casting and sizing my own I would tumble lube the commercial stuff in Lee's " Alox " , it definitely helped reduce the lead in a barrel by providing a better lube .
Remember , " Chore Boy " is the secret to removing lead from a barrel . It 's a pure copper scouring pad so just cut a small piece , wrap it around an old bore brush . In just a couple of min's you will remove all the lead . Do NOT buy any other brand as they are usually steel just coated in copper and will harm your barrel . " Chore Boy " is usually available at most walmarts , ace hdwe etc .
Thanks for the insight. I don't cast my own so I'm at the mercy of the bullet sellers.

Increasing the bullet diameter should provide a better seal but also increase pressures. Correct?

How about using a slow burning powder?

Regarding Chore Boy, it does indeed work as you describe as does Mr. Lewis' Lead Remover. I've tried several liquid lead removers with limited success. Suggestions?
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Old 03-11-2017, 02:43 PM
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I don't cast my own so I'm at the mercy of the bullet sellers.
I do find it strange that you feel "at the mercy of the bullet sellers"

If the person that you are handing your hard earned money to is not supplying you with what you need, find someone else to do business with

Most all of the on-line bullet caster's web sites that I have looked at offer projectiles in 2 or 3 different diameters.

At least tell us what diameter projectile you are buying and what your revolvers are slugging out at.
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Old 03-11-2017, 02:49 PM
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I don't use any chemicals , just chore boy . I used to use lewis lead remover , but it got too expensive and didn't do a better job than just a piece of chore boy .
Yes , slower burning powders do help . Larger cast doesn't increase the pressure hardly any as compared to shooting plated / jacketed bullets . The " friction coefficient " of those bullets is much higher than lead . As they are made of a much harder material and contain no lubricant . There are bullet casters that provide whatever diameter you want . I want make a few phone calls and get what I want , not just take what they sell . Check with Missouri Bullet Co , , Penn bullets etc .
If using cast in 45acps , semi auto's I really wouldn't worry about " barrel roughness " , right now . Get the right fit and don't get caught up in buying hard bullets ( bh18) in the lower pressure rounds (38spl , 45acp etc) . softer bullets (bh 8-12) work much better than harder .

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Old 03-11-2017, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by S&W HE View Post
Tell me the secret. What am I doing very wrong?

Am I using the wrong hard cast bullets? Who's should I try besides Berry's, MBC, Meister, or X-Treme.

For years folks have told me that their gun(s) don't lead with their favorite hard cast bullets and I must be doing something (very?) wrong.

All my gun barrels lead, regardless of who makes the bullets or the Brinell Hardness Number (BHN.) Some say my barrels must be rough. Do you think this includes the Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, and Bar-Sto barrels?

As for folks on line, I really don't know. As for locals, Mr. Lewis' Lead Remover continues to drag lead out of their "my gun doesn't lead" barrels.

Seriously, tell me what I'm doing wrong 'cause the Meister or MBC 200 grain H&G #68 hard cast bullet is extremely accurate in the Wilson Combat CQB, Dan Wesson PM7-45, Bar-Sto barreled Colt Gold Cup, and Kimber UC II 45s.

Missouri Bullet Company
Everything leaves some residue behind, lead, coated, plated or jacketed. Its about degree of fouling. Most leading issues are bullets too small. Even 0.0005" with a hard bullet can cause leading issues at low pressures, So bigger is better. In 45acp, a moderate hard bullet at 0.452" dia will often be fine, brush the barrel, patch it, done. Most commercial cast are too hard for low pressure/Vel.
Nothing wrong with jacketed, especially in semis, but they do cause more bbl throat wear than a good lead bullet in a rev. Why none of my magnums get jacketed anymore. Plated are better, softer so less gas cutting, but they can be really finicky with crimp & vel limits. 1300fps is easy with a good cast bullet, easier still if it is coated.
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:15 PM
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You could always slug your barrel so you know. Then you get what you need, no more leading.

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Old 03-11-2017, 05:01 PM
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Thanks for the insight. I don't cast my own so I'm at the mercy of the bullet sellers.

Increasing the bullet diameter should provide a better seal but also increase pressures. Correct?

How about using a slow burning powder?

Regarding Chore Boy, it does indeed work as you describe as does Mr. Lewis' Lead Remover. I've tried several liquid lead removers with limited success. Suggestions?
The slight increase in pressure is minimal. Lead bullets, even hard ones, easily swage to fill the bore.
The other issue with revolvers is diff in cyl throats vs bore dia. Does no good to make the bullet fit the bore if the cly throats are small. In a 41mag, i would want them minimum 0.410", 0.411" better. Any bullet passing thru the smaller cyl throat enters the bbl small & may or may not bump up, thus early leading. You will need pin gages or in id micrometer to measure them, but if a 0.410" jacketed wont press thru, they are probably undersized & lead bullets will be a problem.
Leading early is often a bullet too small. Leading in the middle, could be a rough Bore. Leading at the end, often a lube failure. Why coated often work better, not subject to lube failure. Some jb bore paste can help a rough bore. Also make sure to clean the bbl between lead & plated/jacketed for best results. Copper can snag the lead as it passes over it.
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Old 03-11-2017, 07:10 PM
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Remember , " Chore Boy " is the secret to removing lead from a barrel . It 's a pure copper scouring pad so just cut a small piece , wrap it around an old bore brush . In just a couple of min's you will remove all the lead . Do NOT buy any other brand as they are usually steel just coated in copper and will harm your barrel . " Chore Boy " is usually available at most walmarts , ace hdwe etc .

Cant agree more.. I had a badly leaded 357 revolver and a few swipes of ChoreBoy cleaned it nicely ... best few dollars I spent




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Old 03-12-2017, 12:55 AM
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Am I using the wrong hard cast bullets?

All my gun barrels lead, regardless of who makes the bullets or the Brinell Hardness Number (BHN.)
.
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I don't cast my own so I'm at the mercy of the bullet sellers.

How about using a slow burning powder?
.

I got tired of being disappointed in the lead bullets I purchased too & their leading. Even one maker's coated bullets leaded but another's didn't. I hate spending $$ for junk & then trying to cope with it. Any leading is too much for me.

I swore off cast lead bullets finally & went with plated for range use. They might require a tad more fine-tuning of their load but they are far less grief for me in the long run, which makes me happy.

I'm not going to cast my own but more power & praise to those that do. I usually go thru 200-300 rounds a week & reloading is enough fun for me.

And yes, typically the slower burning the powder the less apt it is to lead. That is how I finally used up the last of my cast bullets, with slow powder (2400).

.
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