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Old 03-12-2017, 11:25 AM
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I am just getting into reloading and trying to get load data for my first load/test. I shoot a 9 mm Shield and 9mm High Point carbine (target and plinking). I have purchased 9 mm Berry's 115 Gr round nose bullets, HS-6 powder and CCI 500 primers. Barry' says to use published load data for lead/cast bullets. So Hodgdens web site shows: 115 Gr LRN, HS-6, 6.4 Gr (1117 fps) to 6.9 Gr (1170 fps), with COL of 1.100". To me this seems like a small spread from starting to max., but I could be wrong. I could not find any other source of load data for this combination.

I've read that you should develop your test in 2% of max load, work up from starting load until seeing high pressure signs, then back off 15%.

Are there any other load data sources for this load? And am I on the right track? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:43 AM
Ballistic147 Ballistic147 is offline
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Being a guy who recently started reloading too I would highly recommend starting with a jacketed bullet to begin with. IMO they are much easier to deal with and there's a lot more data available. Stick with starting loads up to mid range loads for now until you are confident in your process and accuracy. Take your time with this. I found 9mm to be a finicky round due to it being a tapered cartridge but if you can get your neck tension right it's not too bad.

Get yourself a few good manuals. My go to is the Hornady but I also use the Lyman and Hodgdon plus I look up load data on the manufacturers website. Just take your time and don't be afraid to ask questions.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:00 PM
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Well Chuck, your choice of a slow powder normally used for higher speed 9mm limits your choice of a wide range of loads. Widely used for "warm" loads, HS-6 is not suitable for light (lower speed) loads. And your choice of plated bullets brings in the complication that they have a "speed limit" and are not suitable for max speed loads.
So your combination will work, but only over a limited range.
There is nothing wrong with your components, but you might spend a little more time reading the technical parts of your manual.


"I've read that you should develop your test in 2% of max load, work up from starting load until seeing high pressure signs, then back off 15%." Maybe for rifles in bottle neck cartridges, but NOT in 9mm. DON'T TRY TO USE MAX LOADS as a beginning pistol loader. And certainly not with plated bullets, ever.


The first "pressure sign" you may see in a pistol cartridge is your gun coming apart. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. Just load a few right in the middle of your data and go shoot them to see how they work in your pistol.
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:21 PM
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That Hornady data for the HS-6 powder at maximum load........

was very safe in my C9 3.5" but you might want to try just
6.2grs of HS-6 with a 115gr RN plated with a oal of 1.14"

This should be at 1010fps depending on barrel length and very accurate
for a low pressure target load in Fac or Milt. cases.

Safe loading.
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Old 03-12-2017, 04:25 PM
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I've been reloading close to 50 years and this is my method for plated bullets , I look at two things:

The starting load for jacketed - Hornady 8th Edition- 5.7 to 6.3 max.
Then the starting load will be 5.7 grs. HS6

The middle load for a cast bullet. Lyman 4th Edition 5.0 to 6.3 max.
5.0 + 6.3 = 11.3 divided by 2 = 5.65 rounded off = 5.7
Then the starting load will be 5.7 grs. HS6

After looking at both published sources , it seems 5.7 is the place to start. I would load up a few rounds and see how they shoot. Experience has shown most loads might be fine right here or need an additional powder charge of up to 0.5 grain to get proper gun cycling. Test it out first. Use the lowest charge that insures 100% cycling of the gun with acceptable accuracy.

You didn't mention any reloading manuals , buy at least 4 . That way you can cross check information . Lyman and Lee cover cast bullets . Hornady and Speer are my other favorites. Lots of great information in them besides the Load Data , read them , they will become your friend's.
Gary

Last edited by gwpercle; 03-14-2017 at 12:54 PM. Reason: divided by 2 = 5.65 not 6.65
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Old 03-12-2017, 04:29 PM
TjB101 TjB101 is offline
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For plated use Lead and you may find TMJ data (plated). Watch the crimp, you can cut a plated bullet pretty easily. I agree with the other poster regarding FMJ ... much easier to load


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Old 03-12-2017, 06:31 PM
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Thanks for the valuable information guys! I have a much better vision on how to proceed. BTY, I do have a Hornady's 9th Edition but I plan to get more, probable the Lees and/or Lyman as I might decide to cast my own bullets.
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:42 PM
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Normally I don't recommend plated bullets for new reloaders. There seems to be not enough easily found data/info for loads and methods and new reloader are often confused. I recommend starting with jacketed bullets, the easiest to reload, and then branch off to other types after you feel confident with your reloads. (hint; find a load, bullets and powder, in your reloading manual before you buy components)

I'd say don't bother with any "formula" and just use lead bullet data. Two percent? 15%?, don't bother, just go with listed starting loads and work up (if you look at forums long enough you'll see a formula for anything) When you get a lot more experience and knowledge, then you can extrapolate data if you choose (I've been reloading for 30+ years and don't bother with "WAG reloading data").

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Old 03-13-2017, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
I've been reloading close to 50 years and this is my method for plated bullets , I look at two things:

The starting load for jacketed - Hornady 8th Edition- 5.7 to 6.3 max.
Then the starting load will be 5.7 grs. HS6

The middle load for a cast bullet. Lyman 4th Edition 5.0 to 6.3 max.
5.0 + 6.3 = 11.3 divided by 2 = 6.65 rounded off = 5.7
Then the starting load will be 5.7 grs. HS6

After looking at both published sources , it seems 5.7 is the place to start. I would load up a few rounds and see how they shoot. Experience has shown most loads might be fine right here or need an additional powder charge of up to 0.5 grain to get proper gun cycling. Test it out first. Use the lowest charge that insures 100% cycling of the gun with acceptable accuracy.

You didn't mention any reloading manuals , buy at least 4 . That way you can cross check information . Lyman and Lee cover cast bullets . Hornady and Speer are my other favorites. Lots of great information in them besides the Load Data , read them , they will become your friend's.
Gary
I,m struggling with the math. Must be 90's math 6.65 rounded off to 5.7.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:18 PM
cowboy4evr cowboy4evr is offline
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11.3 / 2 = 5.65 . I think he just " typoed " incorrectly . To tell you the truth I really like " Accurate Powders " website . The main company is Western Powder , they own Accurate and Ramshot powders . You can spend your money on manuals , but I truthfully recommend you ck them out first , buy a # of one of their powders and have some fun . I don't / won't use bulkier powders in small cases . Too much chance of getting inconsistent charge weights . A couple of tenths variation in a big case , no worries . But in a small case , not so good, esp in something like the 380 acp . Remember , it's just a " short 9mm " cartridge .
Try taking a look at their website and consider their powders . They meter very very well (flow like water ) so you get very consistent charges which is very important when reloading a small cartridge like the 9mm , or worse the 380 acp .

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Old 03-13-2017, 02:20 PM
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I load 9mm for the same pistol as yours and a few other. Honestly you can buy jacketed bullets for very close to the price as plated. I've loaded both and prefer the jacketed. My go to load is 124 jhp from everglades reloading over 6 grains of AA #5.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy4evr View Post
I don't / won't use bulkier powders in small cases . Too much chance of getting inconsistent charge weights . A couple of tenths variation in a big case , no worries . But in a small case , not so good, esp in something like the 380 acp . .

I agree with this. I had fits trying to load .38 Special with Trail Boss dispensed through my Lee Auto-Disk measure and finally switched over to just dipping it with a homemade dipper (a cut-down casing soldered to a brass rod for a handle).
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:35 PM
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If you wait for sales and use coupon codes, you can get plated for $36/500. Even ordering in bulk (4000) from Everglades, I'm not seeing jacketed for under $44/500.

To the OP: Couple things.

The OAL listed in the book is just the OAL the guys making the book used--using the bullet that they used. Their 115-gr roundnose is probably not the same length as your 115-gr roundnose. And they frequently will select an OAL shorter than anyone would reasonably use, to provide a "minimum" OAL in their data.

In other words, if they tested my 9mm, loaded out to 1.160", well...that wouldn't provide useful data for anyone that had to load shorter.

Second thing--.5 grains from "start" to max is really not that small. Some powders are more sensitive to low charges than others, so the starting load must necessarily be closer. That said, you'll note that most of the powders used in 9mm--many of which are quite suitable--have very low spreads, mostly in the .5-grain range. 9mm is a high-pressure cartridge with a very low useful case capacity. If you look at, say, .38 Spl or .44 Magnum data, you'll notice a much wider spread.

Ordinarily, if I see that most powders in a given cartridge have starting/max spreads of, say, 1.5 grains, and Powder X has a spread of only .5 grains, I consider it to be a sign that Powder X might not be particularly suitable.

For quality plated bullets--basically, anything that's not minimally-plated for anti-lead regulations at ranges--I usually use jacketed data. That said, I also look at lead data, and if I'm unsure of how to proceed, use the area that overlaps if possible. In this case, we can check out Hodgdon's excellent online data.

Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading

A 115-grain lead bullet is listed for 6.4-6.9gr of HS-6.

A 115-gr jacketed bullet goes for 6.7-7.0, and tops out at 1234 fps, which means it's still slow enough for plated.

Hence, I would probably roll with 6.6-6.7 gr.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:42 PM
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You can use starting jacketed data & work up. Plated load almost exactly between a jacketed & a lead bullet. Since you are just plinking, forget working to max & backing off. Just work up to a midrange load that shoots well & call it good. For me that is an average of data from three printed sources. FWIW, with small volume cases like 9mm, 357s & 40, you don't get a lot of powder variation from mild to wild.
Keep in mind that OAL is gun & bullet specific, regardless of the data. The bullet must fit. If you load longer, reduced pressures, as long as you are NOT into the rifling.
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Old 03-14-2017, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
ChuckBen wrote:
I've read that you should develop your test in 2% of max load, work up from starting load until seeing high pressure signs, then back off 15%.
Welcome to the hobby.

Actually, the accepted rule-of-thumb is that if the publisher does not list a minimum or starting load, then back off the maximum load by 10% and use it as a starting load.

But, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE go buy at least one published reloading manual. Read it throughly BEFORE you start to realod anything. Read it again. And then set down a written set of procedures based on what you have gleaned from the manual. Print these out EVERY TIME you go to the reloading bench and follow them, checking each step off as you complete it.

That may seem like a lot of "overhead", but I've been reloading for 38 years now and I have never had a squib load or uncharged case. That checklist will save you a lot of trouble and aggravation in the long run.

Good luck.
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Old 03-14-2017, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
If you wait for sales and use coupon codes, you can get plated for $36/500. Even ordering in bulk (4000) from Everglades, I'm not seeing jacketed for under $44/500.

To the OP: Couple things.

The OAL listed in the book is just the OAL the guys making the book used--using the bullet that they used. Their 115-gr roundnose is probably not the same length as your 115-gr roundnose. And they frequently will select an OAL shorter than anyone would reasonably use, to provide a "minimum" OAL in their data.

In other words, if they tested my 9mm, loaded out to 1.160", well...that wouldn't provide useful data for anyone that had to load shorter.

Second thing--.5 grains from "start" to max is really not that small. Some powders are more sensitive to low charges than others, so the starting load must necessarily be closer. That said, you'll note that most of the powders used in 9mm--many of which are quite suitable--have very low spreads, mostly in the .5-grain range. 9mm is a high-pressure cartridge with a very low useful case capacity. If you look at, say, .38 Spl or .44 Magnum data, you'll notice a much wider spread.

Ordinarily, if I see that most powders in a given cartridge have starting/max spreads of, say, 1.5 grains, and Powder X has a spread of only .5 grains, I consider it to be a sign that Powder X might not be particularly suitable.

For quality plated bullets--basically, anything that's not minimally-plated for anti-lead regulations at ranges--I usually use jacketed data. That said, I also look at lead data, and if I'm unsure of how to proceed, use the area that overlaps if possible. In this case, we can check out Hodgdon's excellent online data.

Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading

A 115-grain lead bullet is listed for 6.4-6.9gr of HS-6.

A 115-gr jacketed bullet goes for 6.7-7.0, and tops out at 1234 fps, which means it's still slow enough for plated.

Hence, I would probably roll with 6.6-6.7 gr.
Current price at everglades for plated 9mm $88 per 1000, 124 gr JHP $99 per 1000 I'll pay the $11 more plus they have free shipping.
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Old 03-14-2017, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elpac3 View Post
I,m struggling with the math. Must be 90's math 6.65 rounded off to 5.7.
Not new math , bad typing by old guy . I fixed the math error, math has always been my WORST subject, I have to carry a calculator if it gets over 2+2.
Thanks ,
Gary
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Old 03-14-2017, 01:18 PM
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. cowboy4evr I don't / won't use bulkier powders in small cases . Too much chance of getting inconsistent charge weights
. Sorry, I don't understand this statement. Charge weights are determined by the powder measure, scoop, and scale, not case size, or am I missing something?
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Old 03-14-2017, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
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. Sorry, I don't understand this statement. Charge weights are determined by the powder measure, scoop, and scale, not case size, or am I missing something?
I'll answer from MY perspective. Many powder measures have trouble consistently dispensing small charges with a bulky powder like Trail Boss. I routinely have trouble dispensing charges for .38 Special with my Lee Auto-Prime and even a little less so with my Perfect Powder Measure. With the Auto-Prime sometimes the dispensed charges are as much as 75% of what I'd set it up to drop.
A scoop and scale works the best for me, but it's really a PITA to have to so that separate step as compared to belling the case mouth and dispensing powder with a single stroke like I can with a less bulky powder like W231.
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Old 03-14-2017, 02:55 PM
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. Sorry, I don't understand this statement. Charge weights are determined by the powder measure, scoop, and scale, not case size, or am I missing something?
I agree, makes no sense. In reality, a powder that fills the case is more likely to give more uniform results as the powder is held next to the primer for ignition.
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Old 03-14-2017, 02:57 PM
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I'll answer from MY perspective. Many powder measures have trouble consistently dispensing small charges with a bulky powder like Trail Boss. I routinely have trouble dispensing charges for .38 Special with my Lee Auto-Prime and even a little less so with my Perfect Powder Measure. With the Auto-Prime sometimes the dispensed charges are as much as 75% of what I'd set it up to drop.
A scoop and scale works the best for me, but it's really a PITA to have to so that separate step as compared to belling the case mouth and dispensing powder with a single stroke like I can with a less bulky powder like W231.
Then you get better equip for measuring bulkier powders. My RCBS Duo & Dillon will measure any of the pistol powders accurately but 800X, which pretty much has to be weighed. Dippers are always problematic trying to maintain 1/10gr accuracy, it's always technique. I think you guys are mistaking bulky for course. TG is fine, Red Dot or WST are bulky. Both have sim burn rates & charge weights to TG.
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:13 PM
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I'll just add one thing. Specifically about loading for the Shield 9mm. The Shield is well known to have stiff recoil springs. Takes a little more muscle to get the slide back all the way. Well, same thing happens during live fire. The gun needs a extra oomph from ammo to get that slide back. What I'm saying is that loads in the bottom "starting" range may not fully operate the gun. I have learned, over time, that I don't have to start at the very bottom of the load range and work up. I know that I can safely start in the middle of the load range. I have never experienced any signs of excessive pressure in any mid-range loads. And, I rarely load up to max. I usually find a sweet spot between mid and max. Same is true for the Shield.
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:47 PM
Wise_A Wise_A is offline
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Originally Posted by andy52 View Post
Current price at everglades for plated 9mm $88 per 1000, 124 gr JHP $99 per 1000 I'll pay the $11 more plus they have free shipping.
And the last time I bought plated 9mm, it was from Xtreme. I paid between $34 and $36 (bought several different weights and styles), and shipping was $5.

Saying "jacketed costs nearly the same as plated at Everglades" is not the same as "plated and jacketed cost nearly the same".
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:55 PM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Then you get better equip for measuring bulkier powders. My RCBS Duo & Dillon will measure any of the pistol powders accurately but 800X, which pretty much has to be weighed. Dippers are always problematic trying to maintain 1/10gr accuracy, it's always technique. I think you guys are mistaking bulky for course. TG is fine, Red Dot or WST are bulky. Both have sim burn rates & charge weights to TG.
But I don't want to buy any more equipment; thus, I stick to powders that throw well through the 3 measures that I already own.
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Old 03-15-2017, 08:30 AM
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And the last time I bought plated 9mm, it was from Xtreme. I paid between $34 and $36 (bought several different weights and styles), and shipping was $5.

Saying "jacketed costs nearly the same as plated at Everglades" is not the same as "plated and jacketed cost nearly the same".
It must have been some time ago when you got bullets from Xtreme their prices currently for plated bullets. $44 per 500 115gr rn, $46 per 500 124 gr rn.
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Old 03-15-2017, 05:50 PM
Wise_A Wise_A is offline
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Just this past Christmas. They're a bit of a rip-off if you buy them with zero effort, but with daily specials and big quarterly sales (everything marked down), it's really not hard.

Then you go ahead and stack on a coupon code.

Last edited by Wise_A; 03-15-2017 at 05:53 PM.
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