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Old 03-21-2017, 08:47 PM
gehlsurf gehlsurf is offline
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Hi guys,

I have the Lee TL358-158 LSWC mold, does anybody resize them? I'm not asking for what people have read, but for people that have used them. When I load them in the casings, they bulge like crazy unless I resize them. Is this normal? They still chamber ok in my 357's, once I put them through my Lee Factory Crimp die

Thank you in advance for any help
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:04 PM
GypsmJim GypsmJim is offline
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I have the same mold. I DO resize them, not because of any issues, but when I resize I can see there is some sizing all around the bullet.

This is an excellent bullet and for me gives VG accuracy.

OTOH, I have a 41 mag TL die that shows no change after resizing (they basically drop thru the die), so for them I don't bother.

Another "for whatever its worth", I don't like the FCD. I get superior results and faster reloading by using the bullet seating die's built-in crimp.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:40 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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I really don't like loading the messy tumble lube bullets, and after they are loaded they are still a mess!

Ivan
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:51 AM
DumpStick DumpStick is offline
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When I tumble lube, which is most of the time, I do not normally resize. If it chambers, it shoots. Don't worry too much about the bulge in the case. On the rare occasion that I do size tumble-lubed projectiles, I re-tumble (lightly) after sizing.

The only reason I do size, is when I'm lubing with NRA or BAC in my old Lyman 45. Then I size as large as possible, still allowing the round to chamber.

As an aside, if your tumble-lubing, and the projectile is messy and/or sticky when you load - then you are doing it incorrectly. It is very common to use FAR too much Lee Liquid Lube (LLA).
I normally use a 45-45-10 (Recluse Lube variant - you can search for it easily), and have no problems up to Magnum revolver velocities - 1400 FPS - if the projectile fits.

Last edited by DumpStick; 03-22-2017 at 10:52 AM. Reason: proof-read
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:22 AM
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I have the same mold and use tumble lube or powder coat I always resize after both. My alloy is about 15 on the hardness scale and water cooled.
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:43 AM
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I have the same mold and I don't resize them. I do let the bullets sit until the tumble lube has dried. Other than that, No.
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:21 PM
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Sometimes the stars align and a particular bullet will drop from a particular mould the exact sized needed. No sizing required.
Other times , sizing them will be required. Alloy mix and mould temperature will change the diameter. You would think every bullet would be the same size but it doesn't work that way.
I find sizing easier than trying to adjust alloy and temperature to get the desired size bullet.
Gary
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:31 PM
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Shoot some full size and then some sized bullets and see how they do.

At least you will see if sizing may be needed or not.
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:56 PM
M E Morrison M E Morrison is offline
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If it turns out you need to size the bullets, why not size them BEFORE you tumble lube them?

Disclaimer; I have never used TL bullets, so may be way out in left field.....
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:22 PM
gehlsurf gehlsurf is offline
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Well, today I shot 50 of the sized bullets, EXCELLENT accuracy, but not excellent in the leading department.

I'll cast some more and not size them. Unsized bulges my casings, but according to Lee that's a normal thing? Well see, I suppose
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:33 PM
patrickd patrickd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gehlsurf View Post
Hi guys,

I have the Lee TL358-158 LSWC mold, does anybody resize them? I'm not asking for what people have read, but for people that have used them. When I load them in the casings, they bulge like crazy unless I resize them. Is this normal? They still chamber ok in my 357's, once I put them through my Lee Factory Crimp die

Thank you in advance for any help
I have the very same mold and the very same problem with case bulging. So I run them through a 357 sizer die.
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:52 PM
Fishinfool Fishinfool is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gehlsurf View Post
Well, today I shot 50 of the sized bullets, EXCELLENT accuracy, but not excellent in the leading department.

I'll cast some more and not size them. Unsized bulges my casings, but according to Lee that's a normal thing? Well see, I suppose

R/E the leading, I got a feeling the Lee Factory Crimp Die is resizing the bullet, in the case, contributing to the leading. That's why that "bulge" is disappearing upon its use. Take a freshly cast bullet or two, and see how they fit thru your chamber throats. If they are snug, maybe require a little force to push thru, then they are good to go as is.

Undersized bullets that are a loose fit in you throats may shoot well, but will most likely lead. Proper fit is more important than alloy or particular lube being used.

Try as cast, lubed, using a slight roll crimp with a regular seating die, and see what happens.

Larry

Last edited by Fishinfool; 03-22-2017 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 03-22-2017, 05:07 PM
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If you want to shoot lead bullets, even Lee's T/L design, you should know what diameter they are. Should you size them? Measure and you'll know. Best starting point for shooting cast bullets in a revolver is size/purchase bullets the same diameter as the cylinder throats. Or just continue with a WAG...

I've been using a Lee 158 SWC T/L mold for several years and size the bullets, regardless of what lube I use, to the same diameter as the cylinder throats of my revolvers (.358" and .359")...

Last edited by mikld; 03-22-2017 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 03-22-2017, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikld View Post
...

I've been using a Lee 158 SWC T/L mold for several years and size the bullets, regardless of what lube I use, to the same diameter as the cylinder throats of my revolvers (.358" and .359")...
Oddly enough, I also have one of the Lee 158 TL SWC molds. I have never sized the bullets from that mold. Just tumble-lube, load and shoot.

I've used it in several different 38 & 357 revolvers without problem. From 750fps to over 1300fps.

So, to the OP, try different ways to get there. No telling what may work for you.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gehlsurf View Post
Hi guys,

I have the Lee TL358-158 LSWC mold, does anybody resize them? I'm not asking for what people have read, but for people that have used them. When I load them in the casings, they bulge like crazy unless I resize them. Is this normal? They still chamber ok in my 357's, once I put them through my Lee Factory Crimp die

Thank you in advance for any help
They are designed to NOT be sized & depending on the QC of the mold, alloy & casting temp, shooting w/o sizing may be fine. There isn't much to size with those tiny bands & that can cause accuracy issues. Don't get me started on the LFCD, especially with lead or plated bullets.
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:37 PM
GypsmJim GypsmJim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpStick View Post
As an aside, if your tumble-lubing, and the projectile is messy and/or sticky when you load - then you are doing it incorrectly. It is very common to use FAR too much Lee Liquid Lube (LLA).
I normally use a 45-45-10 (Recluse Lube variant - you can search for it easily), and have no problems up to Magnum revolver velocities - 1400 FPS - if the projectile fits.
The store bought bullets I use only have lube in the lube groove. As such, they are not sticky or messy.

I DO use the LLA sparingly on my home made bullets, but nevertheless, it gets ALL over the bullet, not just in the groove. They are not "sticky", but as i said, there is lube all over, which makes them messy in that I have to clean the bullet seating die when I'm done. Also, for ACP loads I have to clean the tip or they will stick to the loading ramp.

So, what am I doing wrong?
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:32 PM
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You are using too much.

LLA is tricky to get used to using. Generally speaking, if you can easily see it in the bullet, you are using too much.

Try cutting that LLA 50/50 with some solvent. Naptha works well, and evaporates fairly quickly. Odorless mineral spirits works well also, and is the '10' in 45-45-10 lube.

With the LLA cut with solvent, use the same amount you used of straight LLA. When the carrier evaporates you will have a more even, thinner coat.
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:33 PM
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The only way around the problem of messy bullets is to " dip " them into the lube up to the top grooves . Then set them aside to dry on wax paper then size .
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:57 PM
AlHunt AlHunt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikld View Post
If you want to shoot lead bullets, even Lee's T/L design, you should know what diameter they are. Should you size them? Measure and you'll know.
<SNIP>
Exactly. Mic them. Remember, too, that a different alloy can easily drop a different as-cast diameter.
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:43 PM
gehlsurf gehlsurf is offline
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I tested a sized bullet through the cylinder throat of my 357, and it was snug, but would still go through, wouldn't just drop in and out though. Unsized was crazy tight, I pussed out and backed it out. In thinking this all the way, I think I may be good with them sized, and will try some of the 45/45/10 lube. Maybe this can cut down what little bit of leading I have.

I question the unsized approach, only because even with the Factory crimp die, they don't drop in the cylinder like a normal bullet, and must be pushed in, on 2 off my 357's. Also, common sense..... and my debate/lawyer mind kicked in....got me wondering..... Even though Lee states they can be used without sizing, yet get smaller when sized.... that would lead us to know, it is not an optimal size for the finished bullet. If unsized it is an optimal size for a bullet, then why is the sizer not that size? Basically, if the optimum size for any bullet is "X", then the bullet and sizer should both create "X".....? The TL molded bullet should go right into the sizer, with almost nothing, if anything at all sized off. So the mold, mixture of lead/tin, etc. may be creating a different size bullet from the mole, but one thing that is constant and seems to match my gun is the sizer. So sizing is the way I think this Newb will go.

Again, thank you guys for all the advice, and maybe one of you can explain why the sizer (which sizes bullets to a "ready to shoot" size) does not match the mold's "ready to shoot" bullets? I'm just curious at this point. I'm not looking to be sarcastic or start something, honestly just curious... maybe for different guns? Maybe options of sizes, can always go smaller with a sizer, but not bigger?

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Old 03-22-2017, 11:57 PM
gehlsurf gehlsurf is offline
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Oh, and I forgot, haha, the 50 I shot, sized, was still the best groups I've ever gotten out of this gun, 2 ragged holes at 15 yds, 2 only because I still have to work on pulling/good form, but atleast even my mistake is consistent in this gun!!
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Old 03-23-2017, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
They are designed to NOT be sized & depending on the QC of the mold, alloy & casting temp, shooting w/o sizing may be fine. There isn't much to size with those tiny bands & that can cause accuracy issues. Don't get me started on the LFCD, especially with lead or plated bullets.
The only time I've seen it reported that Lee's T/L design was meant to be shot as is from the mold, is online in forums. FWIW alox lube works on the surface of the bullet, not filled grooves.
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:56 PM
AlHunt AlHunt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gehlsurf View Post
... maybe one of you can explain why the sizer (which sizes bullets to a "ready to shoot" size) does not match the mold's "ready to shoot" bullets? ...
It could match if you wanted it to. It might be close enough to just uniform all your bullets up. Or it might pop through and not actually get sized.

Bullets might be fine to shoot as-cast or they might not. Lots of things can affect the actual diameter of a bullet as it drops from the mold. So, we cast over size and size and we get nice, uniform bullets.

Sometimes people find a mold, alloy and process that works as-cast. Somehow, I never have.
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikld View Post
The only time I've seen it reported that Lee's T/L design was meant to be shot as is from the mold, is online in forums.
From Lee Precision website, on the bullet mold page. I quote
"Most bullets from Lee molds can be used as cast without sizing."

Link :Hand Gun Bullet Molds - Lee Precision
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Old 03-24-2017, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpStick View Post
From Lee Precision website, on the bullet mold page. I quote
"Most bullets from Lee molds can be used as cast without sizing."

Link :Hand Gun Bullet Molds - Lee Precision
Thanks for that info, but as I read it it is incidental that some T/L bullets can be shot straight from the mold, not designed to...
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Old 03-24-2017, 07:02 PM
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It was my understanding that the principal of the T/L bullet design was the modification of the lube grooves for the use of alox liquid lube. The inherent design of the T/L bullet seems to be cast, tumble lube, and load. It purposed to speed up production by eliminating the sizing stage. 25 years of success convinces me.
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:18 PM
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Take 2 bullet moulds of same model and they won't drop the same diameter bullets.I own aprox 3 dozens moulds and only 2 don't need sizing(funny;they both are from long gone manufacturer Ideal and both are WC,one in .38(115gr)and the other in .44(185gr)).Measure the chamber throats of revolvers and barrel of autos.That's what will determine if you need sizing.
I surface lube(LLA)only with bullets I will load under 1000FPS.BTW,I don't have TL bullet designs;only regular models designed with regular lube groove.I lube and let dry,size and relube.Then(I feel like giving away Kentucky fried chicken's secret formula),so as to remove the stickiness and do without the accumulation of lube in seating die,I coat them with baby powder(tumble them in a plastic pot with lid on).Really takes a little and it works.
As a bonus,the bores of my guns are as smooth as a baby's south end!
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Old 03-25-2017, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gehlsurf View Post
Well, today I shot 50 of the sized bullets, EXCELLENT accuracy, but not excellent in the leading department.

I'll cast some more and not size them. Unsized bulges my casings, but according to Lee that's a normal thing? Well see, I suppose
That's correct , cast bullets are typically larger than jacketed , die are made to size down the case enough to hold smaller jacketed bullets, sometimes the die is on the tight side of the tolerance scale too. Some cases are thicker walled and exaggerate the bulge . The fatter cast bullet will show as a bulge, as long as the round chambers it isn't a problem.
Sometimes it takes a bit trial and error to get the kinks worked out.
Gary
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Old 03-25-2017, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikld View Post
The only time I've seen it reported that Lee's T/L design was meant to be shot as is from the mold, is online in forums. FWIW alox lube works on the surface of the bullet, not filled grooves.
The design of the bullet precludes a lot of size reduction. The very shallow grooves get wiped off & if the bullets aren't 100% round, often an issue with Lee 6cav molds, then your bullets driving bands are not concentric. This will lead to accuracy issues.
So agian, the TL design solves no issue but if you size, potentially causes some issue. Less options, why i stick to conventional lube grooves, lubed or coated, you have more options.
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:15 PM
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Always size them. When casting, if you don't get the mold totally closed, if it hangs up a few thousandths, those boolits will be bigger and they will jam up everything and even give you high pressure.
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Old 08-04-2018, 05:50 AM
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Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not?  
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Again, I have never sized a Lee tumble-lubed bullet, with one exception.
Using the TL-314-90-SWC, which was designed for .32 caliber firearms, I size it down to .311 or .309 when using it in 30 caliber rifles. It makes for a serious bunny-thumper at ~1000 fps from a .30-30.

If you are getting oversize bullets because of junk on the face of the mold, or from improper casting technique, then perhaps it's time to review your casting methods.
Resizing, to try to repair an out of round casting, is a bandaid fix. Cast properly, the Lee tumble lube design is meant to shoot as-cast.
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Old 08-04-2018, 06:12 AM
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Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not?  
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Just put a micrometer on your "as cast" bullets and ask yourself if you want that out of round thing going down your barrel. I have yet to cast something out of a Lee mold that approached "round". I size everything to revolver cylinder throat size.

Stu
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Old 08-04-2018, 01:49 PM
DumpStick DumpStick is offline
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Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not?  
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If the bullet is out of round, what difference does it make if the barrel swaged it round, or if a sizer swaged it round ?

I haven't had problems with out if round bullets from my Lee tumble lube molds. If I did have that problem, I would return the mold to Lee, and have them repair or replace it.
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Old 08-04-2018, 02:39 PM
mtgianni mtgianni is offline
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Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not? Tumble Lube Lee bullets-resize or not?  
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The first mold I cast with was a Lee TL mold and it didn't take long to sell it downriver. I have two designs I still tumble lube with, a 95 gr 32 cal in 32 Long and a 158 gr 38 wadcutter. I use BLL, a thinned alox, and when dried you can barely se a brown cast to them. I size in a push through NOE die and recoat. They shoot well for what I want them to do.
I have had a Ranch Dog rifle mold that the designer dipped in LA up to the grooves and dried and have used a lubsizer to put conventional lube on some of those designs. Find what works for your guns, mine like sized bullets.
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