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03-22-2017, 10:23 PM
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First split case
Winchester 357 mag silver case. It had been shot maybe 3 or 4 times. Small split at the base. None of the other cases had any problems or any signs of over pressure. I was shooting 16.0 grains of IMR4227 behind 158 grain RNFP coated lead bullets. I stopped of course and checked everything out. Was shooting my 357 Henry rifle. It produced a little smoke at the breech and a different sound. I shot around 50 rounds of this load. All the other cases were brass.
Mike
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03-22-2017, 10:51 PM
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So throw it away and get on with loading and shooting.
A split case is not a sign of higher than normal pressure. All it means is that case had lost its ductility from repeated sizing and shooting. This will eventually happen to every case used for re-loading if used long enough. Some cases simply last longer than others. Some even fail on the very first firing!
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03-22-2017, 11:00 PM
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Nickel plated cases don't seem to last as long as just brass. Not sure why. But if it was the only nickel case, I'm guessing the OP didn't have any clue as to its origin. It could easily be the last of the original 50 that started life in the 1980s.
Don't feel bad, for range ammo I scrounge anything that looks OK. I have no idea how old some of it is. I'm only interested in seeing if it'll go another cycle.
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03-23-2017, 12:09 PM
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Split or cracked cases are not a big thing, just be happy it is a split.
I had a Winchester "Silver case" in my 357 revolver that had the
top 1/3rd of the case, cut all the way around it.
On ejection of the cases, it stayed in the cylinder !
This would be a major problem in your rifle !
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03-23-2017, 01:45 PM
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Nickel plated cases are more brittle than plain brass and will split sooner. I load them till they do than toss them.
Last edited by Collo Rosso; 03-23-2017 at 05:35 PM.
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03-23-2017, 04:00 PM
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Yep, I also will go with the nickel plated (silver) cases being more brittle and prone to cracking as compared to brass only cases. 3-4 years ago I had bought 500 nickel Starline 357 cases from Midway. Last week I brought a box of 100 out to the range that had been loaded 4 times previously. Of that 100 cases, around 80-85 of them split at the neck on shooting them and the loads were nowhere near max loads. They had been loaded at a strong mid-range load with Longshot and plated bullets and I had no problems with the plated bullets stripping the plating off. I also didn't have any extraction problems with them. And I also have some brass Starline 357 cases that have 15 loads on them and they are still going strong. So you know where my new case money is going and it won't be shiny silver looking cases.
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03-23-2017, 05:31 PM
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They do just wear out , it's normal . The 357 is a rather high pressure round , the higher the pressure the shorter the case life.
Splitting is how they normally go , it's not a dangerous thing, don't reload the case of course.
If you get some cases with loose primer pockets , I loaded a batch a bit too red line and the new primers would fall out...that's a sign of too much pressure, drop back the load , scrap those cases, pressure will leak from the over expanded primer pockets .
Every time you go to reload inspect each and every case for cracks or signs of gas leakage , scrap any case that's suspect. Sometimes you can spot a crack forming, it's called an incipient case crack. Tip : Drop the velocity levels back, that drops the pressure back and cases will last much longer. I have 45 acp and 38 special cases that I've been using for 20 years , they crack from sizing , the brass work hardens over time....they last a long time. It's the low pressure.
Gary
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03-24-2017, 09:49 AM
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Absent Comrade
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Did it look anything like this?
If it did just chunk it and continue to reload and shoot. :-)
Have a blessed day,
Leon
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03-24-2017, 05:55 PM
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No. The split was right at the base. About 1/8" long, like the case had separated from the base.
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03-24-2017, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeinkaty
No. The split was right at the base. About 1/8" long, like the case had separated from the base.
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It still was bad brass. Don't worry about it and keep loading the rest of them. Like everyone has said, nickel plated brass seems to be more susceptible to cracking.
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03-24-2017, 06:05 PM
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I have had non plated brass split the whole length on the first firing, it happens. I think lever actions might even have slightly bigger chambers than revolvers, at least that is what I was suspicious of in a Wincherster 94 in .44mag that I had.
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03-24-2017, 06:45 PM
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Pay a little attention to how your future reloads feel when you pass them through your sizing die. Often times you may be able to detect a split due to a much lighter feel on the sizing pass.
Case splits are not unusual when reloading.
Jim
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03-24-2017, 09:48 PM
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Back in the dark ages, when I was a lad in engineering school (material sciences to be exact), they taught me that electroplating adds tensile stress to metals. For thin walled cylinders such as cartridge cases, higher initial stress + fatigue stress from shooting and reloading cycles = less casing life. Hence the mystery of why nickeled cartridge cases don't last as long as brass cases may finally be solved.
Now, as to why cases split longitudinally: it's because the hoop stress has exceeded the yield strength. Some time ago, a neophyte metallurgist actually got up on his hind legs and wrote that in a failure analysis of a burst boiler tube. After 30 years, people that worked with that individual still would marvele at, and occasionally remind him of such brilliant insight. The analysis earned him the moniker of "Dr. Wad". No, it was not me. -S2
Last edited by Speedo2; 03-24-2017 at 09:50 PM.
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03-24-2017, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo2
Back in the dark ages, when I was a lad in engineering school (material sciences to be exact), they taught me that electroplating adds tensile stress to metals. For thin walled cylinders such as cartridge cases, higher initial stress + fatigue stress from shooting and reloading cycles = less casing life. Hence the mystery of why nickeled cartridge cases don't last as long as brass cases may finally be solved.
Now, as to why cases split longitudinally: it's because the hoop stress has exceeded the yield strength. Some time ago, a neophyte metallurgist actually got up on his hind legs and wrote that in a failure analysis of a burst boiler tube. After 30 years, people that worked with that individual still would marvele at, and occasionally remind him of such brilliant insight. The analysis earned him the moniker of "Dr. Wad". No, it was not me. -S2
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Well, an electrical engineering degree did little for me as far as reloading is concerned! Maybe if guns had electrical triggers!!!!
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03-24-2017, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo2
it's because the hoop stress has exceeded the yield strength.
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03-25-2017, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo2
Back in the dark ages, when I was a lad in engineering school (material sciences to be exact), they taught me that electroplating adds tensile stress to metals. For thin walled cylinders such as cartridge cases, higher initial stress + fatigue stress from shooting and reloading cycles = less casing life. Hence the mystery of why nickeled cartridge cases don't last as long as brass cases may finally be solved.
Now, as to why cases split longitudinally: it's because the hoop stress has exceeded the yield strength. Some time ago, a neophyte metallurgist actually got up on his hind legs and wrote that in a failure analysis of a burst boiler tube. After 30 years, people that worked with that individual still would marvele at, and occasionally remind him of such brilliant insight. The analysis earned him the moniker of "Dr. Wad". No, it was not me. -S2
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I think that age has its effect as well, I have noted that even "new" old stock nickeled casings will fail on the first fireing. I think that "tensile stress" applied to the case when initially plated continues to build up in the case as time passes and renders the case for lack of a better word "brittle". I read an account of "chrome plateing" of aircraft landing gear struts snapping in half at some point due to the "tensile stress" of the plateing stress.
I came across a stash of old new stock Remington nickeled cases in the old fifty round red and white boxes with the string tied around them to ensure the box didn't open. No idea how old they were but they've been around awhile. From each box loaded two to ten or so cases split on their first fireing. What the heck, I got em cheap!
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03-25-2017, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeinkaty
Winchester 357 mag silver case. It had been shot maybe 3 or 4 times. Small split at the base. None of the other cases had any problems or any signs of over pressure. I was shooting 16.0 grains of IMR4227 behind 158 grain RNFP coated lead bullets. I stopped of course and checked everything out. Was shooting my 357 Henry rifle. It produced a little smoke at the breech and a different sound. I shot around 50 rounds of this load. All the other cases were brass.
Mike
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If this is your first split case, you haven't been handloading very long (or using new brass) I've got a bucket full of split 9mm cases (I keep a cup next to my press, when the cup gets full, I dump it in the bucket). I don't handload nickel cases, I segregate them and when I get a full 1 gallon container I give them to a buddy who likes to handload them.
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03-28-2017, 05:53 AM
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A split or cracked case is a positive quality indicator that the case will no longer shoot to the X-Ring and should be discarded.
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03-28-2017, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Joe Clark
Did it look anything like this?
If it did just chunk it and continue to reload and shoot. :-)
Have a blessed day,
Leon
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That should load one more time. Larry
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03-28-2017, 01:19 PM
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Doesn't everyone have a "junk brass" bucket under their loading bench? Mine is close enough that as I look over brass coming out of my tumbler I can just drop it in the "out box" bucket.
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03-28-2017, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeinkaty
Winchester 357 mag silver case. It had been shot maybe 3 or 4 times. Small split at the base. None of the other cases had any problems or any signs of over pressure. I was shooting 16.0 grains of IMR4227 behind 158 grain RNFP coated lead bullets. I stopped of course and checked everything out. Was shooting my 357 Henry rifle. It produced a little smoke at the breech and a different sound. I shot around 50 rounds of this load. All the other cases were brass.
Mike
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I haven't read every post, but its entirely possible your Henry has a loose chamber toward the rear. Most manufacturers for rifles, shooting pistol cartridges aren't terribly concerned about pressure. Cases usually split at the neck where they have been worked and sized, and that causes work hardening
Nickel cases are more brittle than brass cases and much more prone to splitting in my own humble limited experience?
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03-29-2017, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurac
I have had non plated brass split the whole length on the first firing, it happens. I think lever actions might even have slightly bigger chambers than revolvers, at least that is what I was suspicious of in a Wincherster 94 in .44mag that I had.
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Well they have to have more wiggle room at the rear to reliably chamber a round, it could only be at the top and bottom of the chamber, but I would bet money that is the case here??
and unless there is corrosion of some sort, those NOS cases are likely as strong as the day they were plated, just that plating process does increase the hardness and decrease the pliability of that case.
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03-29-2017, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan Bob
I think that age has its effect as well, I have noted that even "new" old stock nickeled casings will fail on the first fireing. I think that "tensile stress" applied to the case when initially plated continues to build up in the case as time passes and renders the case for lack of a better word "brittle". I read an account of "chrome plateing" of aircraft landing gear struts snapping in half at some point due to the "tensile stress" of the plateing stress.
I came across a stash of old new stock Remington nickeled cases in the old fifty round red and white boxes with the string tied around them to ensure the box didn't open. No idea how old they were but they've been around awhile. From each box loaded two to ten or so cases split on their first fireing. What the heck, I got em cheap!
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an aircraft strut would be plated to prevent corrosion, and the plating on an aircraft strut is a fraction of the of the overall mass of that strut. Plating is accomplished by running an electrical current through the parent metal, and attracting the nickel coating in the bath, hence it is basically a surface treatment and would have very little effect on the shear strength of that strut.
If a strut fails, I can guarantee that the forces applied are "over-stress" beyond design limits or a bad casting?
As struts are high stress items, they are most often forged or billet to prevent shearing, more likely to bend than shear.
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