I started reloading 3 months ago becouse most of my guns are pré 1945 (1917 revolver, Husqvarna M40, Mauser P08) and i don't want to bash them up with modern FMJ factory ammo.

I was having trouble to find a good load for my M 1917 Brazilian contract revolver with Vihtavuori powders.

I tried N320 5.7 grains under a 200 grains lead copper plated bullet from H & N, COL 31,5 mm feels good and is accurate but but there are so much unburned powder flakes that after a reload or two i can not get a new clip in and close the cylinder becouse the flakes getting under my extractor star and fouling the chambers.

I tried N340 and N350 with the same problem and even worse.
I worked my loads up from the minimum and found that the closer to the maximum the lesser the problem.
Also the faster burning powder, the lesser the problem.

After this i tried Vectan BA10 an even faster burning powder than the N320 and that works wel : 3.8 grains with 230 grains H&N lead copper plated bullet or 4.2 grains with the 200 grains bullet, same COL: 31.5 mm)

What is the most likely cause of this problem?
Is my load with the VV powders to soft, even at maximum loads?
Is my revolver worn out maybe? (still shoots great with factory FMJ 230 grains Fiochi and S&B)

Thankful for your advice,

Varel

The .45ACP was originally loaded with Bullseye, quite a fast-burning powder. It's been my experience that the faster powders do, indeed, seem to work better. I'm not terribly familiar with the European powders, so I can't make an intelligent recommendation.
As to unburned grains accumulating under your extractor star, try elevating your muzzle straight up, tap the topstrap a couple times, then open the cylinder and eject with the muzzle still up. This should settle any unburned into the empties, so it won't fall onto the star and jam it up. It worked for me.

Larry

In the 1970's I received training on revolvers, a short course on training was included. In the cleaning process, using a toothbrush to clean under the extractor star was one if the steps for a clean revolver.

I have shot and cleaned almost 30 Smith & Wesson, 12 Colt and 4 Ruger revolvers. In shooting reloads and factory ammo, there are always a few flakes of unburnt smokeless powder under the extractor. I don't think you have a particular problem, this is just the nature of cartridge revolvers.

I had the same problem shooting my 625 with Universal, switched to 231 and no debris under the extractor. No idea what powders are available in Europe, but using a faster powder may work.

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I am wondering if you are shooting too small diameter bullet . The charge wells in the cylinder are oversize . The case , when fired is not able to seal against the sides of the charge well ( hole ) . That could explain getting much powder debris back around the inside of the firearm. I have read that the 1917 Brazils need a much fatter bullet to shoot accurately when shooting cast .
Measure the outside neck diameter of a loaded round and then measure the outside neck diameter of a fired round . If the neck diameter is quite a bit larger with the fired round and you are still getting debris back inside the gun . You need to use a larger diameter bullet , maybe .457 or so , if it will chamber . If it will chamber , now there is very little expansion needed by the fired case to seal inside the chamber well of the cylinder . I would also measure the cylinder throats and slug the barrel to get the " groove " diameter of the barrel . Like I said , I have read that the 1917 Brazils had some oversize dimensions . I hope this helps .

Things may be different in Europe, but around here I wouldn't expect standard .45ACP ammo to be abusive to anything except perhaps a converted Webley.

However, reloading ordinarily can save one a lot of money, so if this is how you want to spend your time, it might pay off.

Gun was designed to shoot 230 FMJ Military Ball ammo . Generally cylinder throats on the 1917's are oversized .454 - .458" with bore running .451-.452 . Probably so that they would function when dirty as WW I was mostly living in the muddy trenches . Traditionally in general they have almost always shoot better with FMJ . Lead / plated bullets must be sized to match cylinder throats . Cast lead bullets must also be hard to grip the shallow rifling in their barrels . You need to get the pressure up on your loads ie larger diameter bullets to match cylinder throats & / or more powder . I believe that both VVN- 350 & 340 are too slow for this application . From faster to slower I'd try VVN-310 , VVN-312 , Vetcan AS , VVN-320 , Vetcan AO , VVN-330 , Vetcan A1 . 45 acp Military Ball was loaded to 850 fps + / - 25fps . Original military load was 5.0grs of Bullseye which is just a tiny bit slower than VVn-310 . Does H&N make a plated bullet for 45 Colt ? If so try them as they are usually sized .454 + they also weigh more both of which will help increase pressure . I've used 5.2grs VVN-320 ( 0,34 grams ) with 230 FMJ for EIC matches shooting a 1911A1 . It runs right around 800fps from a 1911 auto . I'd start there & work up . Max load with 230 FMJ are : N-350 0,47 grams & N-340 is 0,41 grams with COL 32,00 mm .

Gun was designed to shoot 230 FMJ Military Ball ammo . Generally cylinder throats on the 1917's are oversized .454 - .458" with bore running .451-.452 . Probably so that they would function when dirty as WW I was mostly living in the muddy trenches . Traditionally in general they have almost always shoot better with FMJ . Lead / plated bullets must be sized to match cylinder throats . Cast lead bullets must also be hard to grip the shallow rifling in their barrels . You need to get the pressure up on your loads ie larger diameter bullets to match cylinder throats & / or more powder . I believe that both VVN- 350 & 340 are too slow for this application . From faster to slower I'd try VVN-310 , VVN-312 , Vetcan AS , VVN-320 , Vetcan AO , VVN-330 , Vetcan A1 . 45 acp Military Ball was loaded to 850 fps + / - 25fps . Original military load was 5.0grs of Bullseye which is just a tiny bit slower than VVn-310 . Does H&N make a plated bullet for 45 Colt ? If so try them as they are usually sized .454 + they also weigh more both of which will help increase pressure . I've used 5.2grs VVN-320 ( 0,34 grams ) with 230 FMJ for EIC matches shooting a 1911A1 . It runs right around 800fps from a 1911 auto . I'd start there & work up . Max load with 230 FMJ are : N-350 0,47 grams & N-340 is 0,41 grams .

Factory FMJ ammo ought to be A-OK with any of those pistols... More likely that you would/could "bash them up" with reloads than 45acp ball or 9mm FMJ?

WIN 231 works very well IMHO and mid-range 9mm loads ought to provide all you need for reliable operation: every gun is different (especially older ones) but around 1100fps ought to work the action. A 45acp @ 850-900fps should not create any problems, either.

Cheers!

The 1917 works best with factory FMJ 230 grain Fiochi but time and time again the oldtimers at the range keep telling me that I will wear out the barrel and that it will last longer with lead cast bullets. Is there much truth in that? Same issue for the Luger and M40.
Especially about the luger I have been reading many posts advising never to use factory ammo . Mostly on German fora. There are so many conflicting opinions and that makes it hard to find out what gives me the best chance of shooting these old pistols for many years to come without much trouble.
On the other hand: recently saw a friend blowing up his .357 with a reload

AFAIK, there IS some truth to that. I seem to remember that in the fifties and sixties, it was felt that 5,000 rounds or so of .45ACP FMC would take the edge off a match barrel. Of course, I don't know whether that was really off the barrel, or whether the tight fitting of the gun was loosening slightly. But back then, it WAS believed that FMC would wear a barrel faster than lead. Probably still is.

Lead bullets will extend barrel life . Bullets must be sized to fit cylinder throats otherwise they will lead up your barrel / forcing cone . Also a harder alloy such as linotype ( BHN 22 ) will prevent bullet " skid " . 1917 barrels have shallow rifling ie lands are not pronounced as others in 45acp . That's why I recommend a harder alloy . Measure your cylinder throats & size bullets to fit is most important . A bullet designed for the 45 Colt traditionally were sized larger because the old Colt SAA revolvers had large cylinder throats & since your shooting a revolver they can be used . Just adjust COL to chamber & work powder charges up carefully to obtain your desired results . I've shot accurized 1911 match pistols for a long time & I can state that FMJ bullets will wear a barrel much faster than lead . Older barrel steel is not as hard as newer barrels also . Max accuracy for lead is usually 750 - 800fps , FMJ accuracy 800 - 850fps . If you cast your own bullets you can control all the above . If you're buying from a commercial caster shop around until you find what you need .