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Old 05-24-2017, 11:53 PM
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Default Your favorite 38-44 loads

For 38 Spl Heavy Duty/Outdoorsman or 357 Mag Revolvers only!

My favorites with 158 gr SWC cast:

11.0 grs 2400 very accurate - great working load in 357 Mag
5.4 grs Unique -
6.0 grs Power Pistol (really +P but velocity is comparable to Remington 38 Special 158 gr lead "Hi-Speed" round (catalog 6538) from 1970 timeframe)

These are loads only for my 357 Magnum revolver.
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Old 05-25-2017, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 38SPL HV View Post
For 38 Spl Heavy Duty/Outdoorsman or 357 Mag Revolvers only!

My favorites with 158 gr SWC cast:

11.0 grs 2400 very accurate - great working load in 357 Mag
5.4 grs Unique -
6.0 grs Power Pistol (really +P but velocity is comparable to Remington 38 Special 158 gr lead "Hi-Speed" round (catalog 6538) from 1970 timeframe)

These are loads only for my 357 Magnum revolver.
Those loads are safe for .38 revolvers, as they were published once upon a time (Lyman 44 1967). The Unique load is nice but dirty.

I like 6.3 gr PP under a 158 RNFP hardcast and 5 gr PP under a 190 WFN hardcast. The latter is a load I worked up, use at your own will.
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:04 AM
boatbum101 boatbum101 is offline
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My pre 23 ODM is still 38 special , it hasn't been reamed out so I use 38 cases . Mine shoots better with hotter loads than ones you posted . 12.5 H4227 WSPM primer , 8.5grs VVN-105 Fed 100 primer , 12.5grs 2400 Fed 100 , 13.5grs W296 WSPM , 10.5grs VVN-110 WSPM , 7.0grs SR-4756 Fed 100 & 7.5grs 800X Fed 100 . These are with the Keith 358429 @ 173grs with my alloy . Above loads run between 1100 to 1300fps from its 6 1/2" barrel .
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:30 AM
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Unique is ok in my 6" barrel at 1014 fps with the 158gr lead bullet but...
with the slower Blue dot powder I can squeeze 1124fps out of the little 38 special case.
I did not have use of the "New powders" back in those days........
a load of HS6 or BE86 might be interesting?
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:06 PM
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Most of the reloading recipes for the .38-44 given in the older Lyman reloading handbooks dating from the 1950s and 1960s used 2400, as it was probably the best available propellant of the time for that purpose. But there were a few given which used Unique. While there are newer propellants today which could be used, 2400 remains one of the best choices for those wishing to duplicate factory .38-44 ballistics (not available since the early 1970s from the major loaders). The original factory .38-44 cartridges were advertised as being suitable for use in any good-condition .38 Special revolver, warning only against excessive recoil if used in lighter-frame revolvers.

Except during the early days, most ammunition manufacturers did not use the .38-44 terminology. Winchester called theirs the "Super Speed" .38 Special, Western used "Super-X", and Remington used "Hi-Speed."

Last edited by DWalt; 05-25-2017 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:41 PM
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I haven't done any research, but there may be a couple or so of the newer powders that will equal #2400 (velocity and accuracy) or at least come close. I doubt any would exceed #2400 performance.
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:53 PM
moosedog moosedog is offline
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I use 11.5 to 12 grs of 2400 with a 160gr SWC. Nice shooting but not too hot.
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Old 05-25-2017, 04:41 PM
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I like both the Unique and 2400 loads that are previously mentioned in this thread. I tested them (again) over the chronograph several year ago along with two additional loads.

158 Grain Lead SWC/5.4 Grains of Unique

2-inch Barrel
MV 964 fps
ME 326 ft./lbs
ES 75 fps
SD 33 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 1026 fps
ME 369 ft/lbs.
ES 31 fps
SD 13.4 fps

6-inch Barrel
MV 1047 fps
ME 385 ft./lbs.
ES 43 fps
SD 16.6 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1149 fps
ME 463 ft./lbs.
ES 56 fps
SD 23.3 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/5.0 Grains Herco

2-inch Barrel
MV 912 fps
ME 292 ft./lbs.
ES 38 fps
SD 14.3 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 964 fps
ME 326 ft./lbs.
ES 34 fps
SD 14.5 fps

6-inch Barrel
MV 976 fps
ME 334 ft./lbs.
ES 64 fps
SD 23.7 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1069 fps
ME 401 ft./lbs.
ES 83 fps
SD 33.1 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/11.5 Grains 2400

2-inch Barrel
MV 1037 fps
ME 377 ft./lbs.
ES 71 fps
SD 30.2 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 1150 fps
ME 464 ft./lbs.
ES 50 fps
SD 26.8

6-inch Barrel
MV 1162 fps
ME 474 ft./lbs.
ES 58 fps
SD 22.2 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1102 fps
ME 426 ft./lbs.
ES 67 fps
SD 24.0 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/8.0 Grains SR 4756

2-inch Barrel
MV 1150 fps
ME 464 ft./lbs.
ES 51 fps
SD 26.5 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 1234 fps
ME 534 ft./lbs.
ES 23 fps
SD 12.3

6-inch Barrel
MV 1251 fps
ME 549 ft./lbs.
ES 23 fps
SD 8.9 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1173 fps
ME 483 ft./lbs.
ES 18 fps
SD 7.7 fps
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:22 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is online now
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bmcgilvray- What sort of accuracy do you get with Herco in the .38 Special? I was given one unopened can and a partial can several years ago; probably from the '70s. I shoot only cast bullets in handguns, usually the H&G #51 160 gr. SWC.
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Old 05-25-2017, 06:56 PM
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With a 158gr LSWC, my .38-44s are partial to 12-12.5grs of 2400. Excellent load and very accurate.
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:52 PM
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rockquarry;

I'm kinda liking Herco for medium to full-powered applications in non-magnum straight-walled revolver cartridges. It really didn't have anything to especially recommend it for use in nuclear-powered .38 Special load preparation.
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:02 PM
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Thanks, I'll have to try it.
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  #13  
Old 05-26-2017, 12:44 AM
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I use the OPs very loads in my 15-3.
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Old 05-26-2017, 02:17 AM
Biggfoot44 Biggfoot44 is offline
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No disrespect to the OP . Undoubtedly fine loads, giving good accuracy, and at a useful velocity level .

In my mind " .38-44" implies a velocity level closer to those of BMcGillvary. Totally subjective , and the use for any loading exceeding current published +P data would not be * incorrect * .

If I ever get a life, there are a cpl newer powders I want to try in .38-44 . The classic 2400 and Unique well covered in this thread.

I can contribute a load I like, that is in the vein of the OP's . 5.2gr of 231 . Circa 1980 it was occasionally mentioned as being very top end of +P , but no published data has come close for a cpl decades.

Last edited by Biggfoot44; 05-26-2017 at 02:19 AM. Reason: Incorrectly gave too low powder charge
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Old 05-26-2017, 02:24 PM
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With a Sutter Home 158 LSWC in my M49 revolver snub nose....
5.0 grs. of w231 , win. case, cci primer at a oal of 1.48" ......
gave me an average of 816 fps. on June 19th, 2012.

Green Dot did 812 fps, which seems to match w231 in a lot of my loadings even in a 9mm.
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Old 05-26-2017, 07:27 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
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BMC's chronos are very interesting since there is always a major gain in vel between the 2 and 4'' bbl but not so much difference between the 4 and 6'' bbl.Might be worth pushing the experiment a little further.
As for the 38-44 loads,how are they rated pressurewise compared to + P or +P+ .38Spl.I guess the pressure might be more in the 25K/sq.in area.Anybody knows?
Qc
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Old 05-26-2017, 07:47 PM
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I really appreciate BMC's post / work developing those loads . The " SR 4756 " load is right out of Speer #8 . Folks criticize that book . I have it and have always found the starting loads very satisfactory . I have found loads in there that equal what is published today and some are even less .
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Old 05-27-2017, 12:49 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is online now
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I think a lot of the folks that criticize #8 have never seen one.
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:49 AM
NAVDESRON8 NAVDESRON8 is offline
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I have come into possession of a S&W K frame model 14 chambered in 38-44 6" barrel GPS stamp on left side of cylinder
S 165472 stamped on the but the trigger has been extremely well tuned in both single and double action mode. I got it from an older gentleman who was unsure of what he had from an estate.

is there any collectors out there that may be interested in this pistol? Best I can tell it was modified somewhere around 36 for the Georgia State Police to allow them to shoot through the bootleggers car doors.
Cant find brass or ammo I know production stopped some time in the early 70's when the 357 came out. This pistol is in pristine condition send request for pictures to [email protected]

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Old 06-10-2020, 02:26 PM
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[QUOTE=bmcgilvray;139605297]I like both the Unique and 2400 loads that are previously mentioned in this thread. I tested them (again) over the chronograph several year ago along with two additional loads.

I shot IPSC for several years with 150-158 gr cast lead bullets, ~ Lyman #2 alloy and 5.5 gr. Unique. They told me my chrono'ed velocity was 860 fps. Can anyone suggest a reason for the difference in BMC's loads at 5.4 gr. Unique and my
5.5 gr. load?
Thanx!

Last edited by sniper; 06-10-2020 at 02:29 PM.
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  #21  
Old 06-22-2020, 02:11 AM
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That load should chrono closer to 1,000 than 850.................
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