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  #1  
Old 06-05-2017, 12:46 AM
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Default Lee Factory Crimp Die - help please

The instructions with Lee FCD says one complete turn of the adjusting screw gives you a heavy crimp - I found this not to be the case and can still feel the case mouth lip with my finger nail.

How much crimp do you use with your Lee FCD on your revolver cartridges? I adjust the screw (probably close to three complete turns) until I get a crimp which creates a very firm concentric indentation around the bullet along the lines of Buffalo Bore 38 Spl +P 158 gr SWC crimps.
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:21 AM
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I use them on my 9 and 38/357 ammo ... about 1/2 turn gives a decent crimp... a full turn really cranks up the crimp. I've only used a full crimp (1 full turn) when creating some rat shot in 357 cases to roll over the shot card I used... it was quite a pronounced crimp.
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Old 06-05-2017, 07:22 AM
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I use between 1/2 and 3/4 turn, depending on caliber and bullet type. Can't imagine needing three turns ...
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:10 AM
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The big thing to remember is the factory crimp is removing the flare in the case mouth. Don't expect to see a firm roll crimp from a factory crimp die.
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:21 PM
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You only need enough crimp to prevent the bullet from unseating under recoil.
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:33 PM
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Turn your knob until it stops/tight, then drop the ram, and set the crimp. Turning it tight does not crimp it, it takes more force. If you are just turning until it stops, you are not taking out the flare. Works every time for me.
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Old 06-05-2017, 05:32 PM
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If you are turning it three times perhaps you have not properly set the depth of the die initially?
Here is a quick simple link to show just in case:
Karl
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:26 PM
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This Lee factory crimp die thing comes up on this forum with surprising regularity. There are two threads right now.

There are exceptions to virtually everything in this world, so there is or there may be a legitimate use for the factory crimp die. I won't argue that. However, for the majority of competent handloaders, i.e., those who are doing everything right, there is no need for the factory crimp die or the potential damage it can cause.

Granted, one can also do damage with a conventional roll crimp, taper crimp or various other similar combinations. You just have to try harder with those than you would if you were using the factory crimp die.

Now, let the backlash begin...
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Old 06-05-2017, 07:11 PM
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After trying one for a 44 mag, I gave up and bought a RCBS crimp die, for a revolver you need a good 'roll' crimp
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Old 06-05-2017, 09:39 PM
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The one and only instance that I've found the FCD to be of any use whatsoever in handgun loading is for the 357 Sig.
Bullet setback is to be avoided at all costs and the FCD performs perfectly.
Interesting that this one is a COLLET die, rather than the carbide die that merely mashes everything.
All my revolver sets have either a Redding or RCBS roll crimp die.
Well, one exception, 38 Special Wadcutters get a light taper crimp.
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  #11  
Old 06-05-2017, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post

However, for the majority of competent handloaders, i.e., those who are doing everything right, there is no need for the factory crimp die or the potential damage it can cause.

Granted, one can also do damage with a conventional roll crimp, taper crimp or various other similar combinations. You just have to try harder with those than you would if you were using the factory crimp die.

Now, let the backlash begin...

My experience is that most of problems associated with reloading tools is that the problem is the "warrior not the weapon" even with the most "competent handloaders"
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:12 AM
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Then they are not competent handloaders who are doing everything right.
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2017, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
Then they are not competent handloaders who are doing everything right.
Well then I recon I'm incompetent and am doing everything wrong - because I've loaded with 4-die Lee sets from day 1.

357/38 and 44mag/special all get a good solid roll crimp from my FCDs.

380/9mm/45ACP all get a nice taper crimp from the FCDs for those cartridges.

It has worked well for me so far, so I see no reason to change - regardless of any opinions to the contrary.

FWIW, the way I adjusted mine is with the FCD body just barely "kissing" the shell plate with the ram in the full up position, I turn the adjuster down until it makes firm contact with a round that is ready to crimp. Then I lower the ram, turn the adjuster another 1/4 turn and apply the crimp. If it isn't crimped enough, I lower the ram and turn it another 1/4 turn and crimp again. I repeat this until I get the crimp I want. I've never had to turn it more than a full turn past the point of initial contact and usually 1/2 - 3/4 turn gets me the crimp I'm looking for.

Last edited by BC38; 06-06-2017 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:24 AM
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Default If you are creating...

...a ring in the bullet, then you are applying one hell of a crimp which should not be and probably isn't necessary. If you want that kind of crimp use a bullet that has driving bands, a crimp groove or a shoulder to crimp on. And maybe a roll crimp die would suit you better than the Lee FCD.
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  #15  
Old 06-06-2017, 12:34 AM
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Just curious. I keep seeing statements like "use a roll crimp die INSTEAD of a Lee FCD."
For straight-walled revolver cartridges, isn't the Lee FCD a "roll crimp die"?
If not, then how would you describe it?
The crimp that mine apply sure looks like a roll crimp to me....
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:38 AM
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bc38-
As I said in the original post, there are exceptions to everything. If it works well for you, then you are probably doing everything right.
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Old 06-06-2017, 02:20 AM
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First, take a Sharpie and make a half-line on the knobs of your die knobs. As in a radius, not a diameter.

Second, I've only ever gone up to about a 3-quarter crimp. Instead of screwing around with adjustments all day, I just loosen the knob all the way, raise the ram with a seated but not crimped bullet, tighten the knob until it stops, and then adjust the crimp however I want.

With rimless cartridges, I apply little to no crimp at all--most cases pass through without being touched. Rimmed cartridges get more, but still usually only a quarter to a third of a turn for .38 Spl.
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:27 AM
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I don't have that problem because I don't use Lee FCD's .....My Dillon dies do the job VERY well in this regard.

doesn't solve YOUR problem but they do solve it for me.
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  #19  
Old 06-06-2017, 08:42 AM
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Default Adjust it to your liking

Quote:
Originally Posted by 38SPL HV View Post
The instructions with Lee FCD says one complete turn of the adjusting screw gives you a heavy crimp - I found this not to be the case and can still feel the case mouth lip with my finger nail.

How much crimp do you use with your Lee FCD on your revolver cartridges? I adjust the screw (probably close to three complete turns) until I get a crimp which creates a very firm concentric indentation around the bullet along the lines of Buffalo Bore 38 Spl +P 158 gr SWC crimps.
I crimp my .9's .40's .357's .38's .45 longs, Sigs .308 and .223's
I adjust to my likes and have not had any problems
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
Well then I recon I'm incompetent and am doing everything wrong - because I've loaded with 4-die Lee sets from day 1.

357/38 and 44mag/special all get a good solid roll crimp from my FCDs.

380/9mm/45ACP all get a nice taper crimp from the FCDs for those cartridges.

It has worked well for me so far, so I see no reason to change - regardless of any opinions to the contrary.

FWIW, the way I adjusted mine is with the FCD body just barely "kissing" the shell plate with the ram in the full up position, I turn the adjuster down until it makes firm contact with a round that is ready to crimp. Then I lower the ram, turn the adjuster another 1/4 turn and apply the crimp. If it isn't crimped enough, I lower the ram and turn it another 1/4 turn and crimp again. I repeat this until I get the crimp I want. I've never had to turn it more than a full turn past the point of initial contact and usually 1/2 - 3/4 turn gets me the crimp I'm looking for.
OP, this is a very good reply, and should give you the information you need. I'd recheck how you've set the FCD in relation to the shell plate, and then follow the suggestions outlined by BC38.

And BC38, same experience for me, as well... I also have some Redding and RCBS dies, they work well, and so do my Lee dies; zero issues. Always some haters on the FCD (and Lee...) some see it as unnecessary, or even harmful if using lead bullets (squeezing the bullet smaller and causing leading).

I haven't had problems with leading when using the FCD with lead bullets. I also load good ammo, and probably don't "need" the reshaping that the FCD provides to rounds that may be out of spec. But, I do like crimping separately from seating, I also like the insurance that this die offers in case a round needs it. I also like Lee dies and this is how their 4 die sets are sold. Has worked well for me... And yes, the Lee FCDs for revolver calibers are a roll crimp, the others are a taper crimp. As always, YMMV.
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  #21  
Old 06-06-2017, 12:15 PM
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Any maker have a rolled crimp die for hard cast 45acp/45 AR?

I don't like tapered crimp on lead bullets with crimp groove(revolvers).

Many of my revolvers are short barrel(3" or less) so a heavier rolled crimp works for me on hard cast.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:46 PM
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A dial or digital caliper and knowing how to use it makes setting crimp dies of all manufactures a snap.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StakeOut View Post
Any maker have a rolled crimp die for hard cast 45acp/45 AR?

I don't like tapered crimp on lead bullets with crimp groove(revolvers).

Many of my revolvers are short barrel(3" or less) so a heavier rolled crimp works for me on hard cast.


My set of RCBS dies came with a roll crimp seating die
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:59 PM
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I have Redding and RCBS die sets. Not sure if one or both seat dies will roll crimp, but I have rolled crimped .45 ACP and .45 AR. I haven't done this in a long time because I got slightly better accuracy with a taper crimp. I only load cast bullets in these cartridges.

I have a Star press (that I no longer use) set up in .45 ACP. It has a roll crimp only die. I think roll crimping the .45 ACP was a lot more popular years ago than it is now, but don't know why.
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Old 06-06-2017, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
I have Redding and RCBS die sets. Not sure if one or both seat dies will roll crimp, but I have rolled crimped .45 ACP and .45 AR. I haven't done this in a long time because I got slightly better accuracy with a taper crimp. I only load cast bullets in these cartridges.

I have a Star press (that I no longer use) set up in .45 ACP. It has a roll crimp only die. I think roll crimping the .45 ACP was a lot more popular years ago than it is now, but don't know why.
Yeap,I had several Star Machines back in the 60s to 80s plus the Star sizer and greasers.They were and still are great machines when indexed and fitted with Holm case feeders.

I had cast 45 H&G #68 and #130 and rolled all my crimps
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Old 06-06-2017, 07:39 PM
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Default Lee FCD - Results

Thank you all for your inputs in prior thread.

I followed directions precisely - still one turn DOES NOT give me a roll crimp on 38 Spl cases. Even checking the case mouth with a magnifying loupe, there is no roll into the lead bullet's crimping grove.

However, the bullet does not budge at all when I push it into a hard surface even after repeated attempts. One full turn appears to give it a very firm taper crimp only. The cartridge fits nicely into my revolver chambers. Looking at a factory new Federal 38 Spl +P 158 gr LHP cartridge, it too does not have a firm roll crimp.

I would have to rotate the adjustment screw at least a few turns to start getting the roll into the crimping grove.

I give up
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Old 06-06-2017, 07:52 PM
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If you are setting the die correctly I would say something is wrong with the die. Maybe a call to Lee is in order.
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:57 PM
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To my way of thinking the difference between a true "roll crimp" and a taper crimp is the machining on the die. That it takes one/half, one or two "turns" on a revolver cartridge to create a visible "strong" roll crimp, usually into a magnum load's cannelure, is not a crucial aspect of reloading. A crimp that successfully prevents any movement of the bullet in the other rounds in a cylinder (or magazine) and provides for proper pressure is an acceptable, desirable and correct crimp, IMHO. To me, the really big advantage of the LEE Factory Crimp Die is the 2nd carbide sizing ring, insuring that properly loaded cartridges (that's with a correct O.A.L.) should all reliably chamber.

Cheers!
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Old 06-06-2017, 09:37 PM
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I load 38sp, 357 and 40 calibers and I am a self-confessed rookie. To the OP, I use a Lee FCD with all three and I have had an interesting learning curve. Without all the gory details, I can say that the taper crimp adjustments I made with the 40's seemed easy compared to getting the roll crimp right with the 38 and 357.

When I finally became comfortable on the 357's, I found the die set just a bit more than 3/4 turn after initial contact against the mouth of the case. This seemed to slightly "roll" the edge into the cannelure of the bullet.

A while back on this forum, someone wrote that if I hold a completed case in my left hand and try to depress the bullet with my right thumb (hard)....I had sufficient crimp if it didn't move. I'll go with that.
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Old 06-06-2017, 10:42 PM
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I'm thinking you ended up with a FCD that somehow has the taper crimp collet installed in it - like the one from a 9mm FCD - instead of the right roll-crimp collet for 38/357 rounds. Call Lee - they have great customer service - they'll send you a replacement.
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:37 PM
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I attach a photo from a prior post which shows approximately the same results that I'm having with the Lee FCD. Pls see the 360 degree full turn which is what I'm getting with the same adjustment. Notice the two complete turns which again approximates my results with the same.
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:50 PM
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Are you measuring that full 360 rotation AFTER it has been adjusted down to the point of touching first?

I usually go for a crimp that looks about like the one labeled 630 or 720 in your photo - the ones above that look a little over-crimped IMO.

Last edited by BC38; 06-07-2017 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 06-07-2017, 12:05 AM
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It looks like you are just barely touching at 450. Use a caliper to measure the diameter at the case mouth it takes all the guess work out of crimp adjustments.
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Old 06-07-2017, 12:08 AM
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Exclamation The 540° looks to be a typical 357 magnum-style...

...roll crimp to me. Many times a properly expanded case with a bigger bullet (i.e., a 158gr vs. a 110gr) has enough case mouth tension to preclude the need for a full-bore magnum roll crimp: now, remember that 22gr of H110 can make a lot of noise, get everyone's attention, and shake some bullets loose, and these kinds of loads require strict attention to detail.

Safety 1st!
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Old 06-07-2017, 12:18 AM
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Default Lee FCD - Issue resolved

My problem not obtaining a roll crimp with the Lee FCD was due to not bringing down the case mouth flare enough when seating the bullet. The seating die was not positioned to where it just touched the case mouth (about three turns from touching shall holder).

The case mouth was still flared a bit going into the Lee FCD and the FCD adjustment screw was getting a false indication upon touching the cartridge prior to adjusting the screw for crimping. With the case mouth not properly brought down by the seating die (but not to the extent of crimping) I had to do three turns for a good roll crimp in the FCD.

With the flare brought down in the seating down correctly, I'm getting a nice roll crimp with 1 1/4 turn of the Lee FCD.

New to the Lee FCD. In the past I would just seat and crimp in my RCBS die in one pass.
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Old 06-07-2017, 12:19 AM
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Are you tightening the knob as hard as you can with the ram up before adjusting crimp? Your 360 image is most likely that point.

Don't just adjust till it touches, turn it all the way until it stops. Then lower the ram, and make your crimp turn.
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Old 06-07-2017, 12:21 AM
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Bingo, turn that knob tightly, until it will turn no more by hand. That will take out the bell and move the case mouth to the bullet, but not crimp it. It takes the force of the ram to crimp.
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Old 06-07-2017, 07:57 AM
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Glad to here all is resolved.
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Old 06-11-2017, 02:54 AM
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1/2 turn is what I generally use for my 357 rounds. Occasionally I'll find a short case and go 3/4 turn. I pour and coat my own RNFP bullets with a BNH of 16 to 18. Mike
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Old 06-11-2017, 11:50 PM
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We handload our ammo so that we can achieve better than factory at a lower cost then we do our absolute best to put that factory crimp on the final product.
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Old 06-12-2017, 12:28 AM
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Default No longer a Lee fan!

Back in the early 70's I started reloading for my first rifle with a little Lee Loader kit. Lee offered a lifetime warranty on everything they made, unfortunately they went bankrupt and the name was changed to Lee precision after the new owners took over. I was still a Lee fan until several mishaps with new Lee rifle dies.I've since moved on to RCBS for rifle and Dillon for pistol dies. I'm not saying one is better, just my experience.

Last edited by Rustypipes12; 06-12-2017 at 12:48 AM. Reason: forgot something!
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Old 06-12-2017, 12:41 AM
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Default I'm ham handed when it comes to this......

It's best to start too light and tighten until you get the right amount. If I'm lowering the die and I don't feel like I'm getting what I want, I give it a good turn and end up over crimping the case, maybe even wrinkling it. It sure is easier to keep tightening a little at a time rather than try to undo a too heavy crimp.
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  #43  
Old 06-12-2017, 12:47 AM
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As far as crimps go, I can tell you I don't crimp my .45 acps and a taper crimp seems to suffice on hot .45LC loads and on my .44s I do roll crimp but not excessively so. people tend to over do it on their crimps, If they don't see a visible line it's not crimped, THIS IS WRONG and can give dangerous pressures! there's a great little article from Handgun magazine . I'd put the link up but I all ready got my hand slapped here for violating a rule about promoting other web sites when all I was trying to do was warn people, so you'll have to look for it.
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Old 06-22-2017, 10:42 PM
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I have always used a seperate crimp de when reloading, usually a Lee FCD. Best advice I ever got was when I started using 200 gn jacketed truncated cone (SWC) projectiles Ian .45ACP.

THe bullet supplier told me "For best accuracy crimp hard enough that the case mouth makes a ring around the plated bullet but NOT so hard that it indents the jacket".

It took me some fiddling around to get to the recommended crimp having o load and a round then pull the bullet to check on the ring, but boy, do those loads shoot tight groups.

I have now reset alL of my loading dies in this way and suddenly I am not getting those unexplained flyers.
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:39 PM
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Everyone seems to have given some great advice and I'm glad the OP got it all straightened out. One of the things that I might be guilty of when it comes to careful stuff like reloading is that I tend to put a bit too much effort into keeping stuff clean. I had reloaded a bunch of red painted or coated bullets in 38 caliber and afterwards had taken some time to clean the dies. I had removed the adjusting screw on the LFCD and cleaned everything, reassembled and put things away. About a week ago I set down to load up some hot .38's for my 38-44 HD and was having a similar problem as the OP, then the adjusting screw simply froze in place. I removed the die and got things unstuck and while checking things out realized that the sizing bead inside the die could have been installed upside down after I had cleaned everything previously. I checked another Lee FCD and saw where the possible error was on my part, reassembled the die and everything worked out just fine, nice and smooth.
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