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06-08-2017, 09:33 PM
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Power Pistol was factory grade BE powder?
I understand that commercial loaders as Remington, Winchester and Federal used Power Pistol in many of their pistol loadings but under the name BE84 ("Bullseye" (BE) type powder).
It leads one to believe BE86 may be the powder of choice in the industry as well?
Years ago, commercial loaders used Bullseye in their 38 Spl loadings and others as well (45 ACP 230 gr FMJ with x.0 grs Bullseye - WW2 loading?) Looks like newer factory grade Bullseye type powders are still in use.
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06-08-2017, 11:24 PM
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Power Pistol....
Besides Accurate number 7, Power Pistol gets the highest velocities in .38 spec. It makes sense that ammo manufacturers would use it. Even if factories use 'special formulations' the basis is probably one of their powders that are available in canisters.
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06-08-2017, 11:59 PM
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Propellants used by the ammunition manufacturers are usually not exactly the same as the corresponding canister powders sold to reloaders. For example, back when Bullseye was used a lot, there were three different variations of it available to the manufacturers. But the reloader-grade Bullseye sold today is pretty much exactly the same as it always has been. The manufacturers have ballistics laboratories, and specific loads are developed for every powder lot they receive before they start using it.
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06-09-2017, 12:12 AM
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Thank you for the inputs!
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06-09-2017, 01:49 AM
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Well, they used bulk powders that were standardized into Power Pistol (and every other Alliant pistol powder, I'll bet). When you buy the bulk powder in 10+ ton quantities, you adjust the load for every bulk lot. When you buy canister powder by the pound, the powder manufacturer needs a specification that is a LOT more stringent.
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06-09-2017, 02:39 AM
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According to :
Smokeless Propellants for Small Arms
"Originally developed for use in U.S. Military 9mm NATO ammunition where it was identified as Bullseye 84, Power Pistol was first sold as a canister powder to the general public in 1996. It is a double base flake powder with a burning rate between that of Unique and Herco when used in small capacity autoloading pistol cartridges. Unfortunately this powder is unsuitable for reloading shotgun shells as it will not function properly unless confined such that the operating pressures are much greater than those found in shotgun loads. Power pistol finds a secondary use in moderate power magnum cartridges."
He starts out the propellant article by basically agreeing with everything noylj just said above
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Last edited by Nemo288; 06-09-2017 at 02:42 AM.
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06-09-2017, 09:19 AM
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Yes, the canister powders sold to reloaders are blended so that the lot-to-lot variations in its ballistic properties are minimal over long time periods. Ammunition manufacturers test each lot of powder they purchase and adjust their loadings for each lot to meet pressure and velocity standards before using it. And powder lots can be much heavier than 10 tons. That would be a very small lot. The Army plant at Lake City will buy in 500K to million pound lots.
Last edited by DWalt; 06-09-2017 at 09:23 AM.
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06-09-2017, 11:02 AM
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I know that some military ammo has had canister powder in the rounds, but my understanding is that most commercial ammo is loaded with blended powders to achieve a certain goal. That means that they mix different types of powders. That is why it is usually not possible for a reloader to exactly match factory loads. I've never heard that BE-86 is Power Pistol by another name, but it may be true.
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06-09-2017, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BE Mike
I know that some military ammo has had canister powder in the rounds, but my understanding is that most commercial ammo is loaded with blended powders to achieve a certain goal. That means that they mix different types of powders. That is why it is usually not possible for a reloader to exactly match factory loads. I've never heard that BE-86 is Power Pistol by another name, but it may be true.
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All smokeless propellants are blended. A powder lot refers to a production run from multiple production lines and/or dates that must be blended together into a single lot with relatively uniform ballistic performance. But different lots often have different performance characteristics. That's why ammo manufacturers develop loadings for each lot of each propellant type they receive, and of course ammo manufacturers do not blend powder themselves. Only the powder manufacturers are capable of doing that. Canister reloading propellants are made using a different blending procedure which requires the manufacturer to blend propellants from different production lots to meet established standard ballistic characteristics. That takes a little more work to assure that a can of powder sold on the reloader market 15 years ago has approximately the same ballistics characteristics as one shipped last week. Ammo manufacturers do not use canister powders (usually named) but bulk powders which may have a completely different manufacturer designation even though similar in performance to canister powders.
Last edited by DWalt; 06-09-2017 at 12:40 PM.
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06-09-2017, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BE Mike
I've never heard that BE-86 is Power Pistol by another name, but it may be true.
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According to Alliant BE86 is Power Pistol with a flash suppressant which speeds it up to right about Unique burn rate. I like the stuff.
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06-09-2017, 09:13 PM
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Dwalt and Noylj are correct. Canister powder is different stuff than what the factories use.
I would actually be super-interested (0% sarcasm) in seeing how powder manufacturers blend lots of powder.
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06-09-2017, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishslayer
According to Alliant BE86 is Power Pistol with a flash suppressant which speeds it up to right about Unique burn rate. I like the stuff.
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Where does Alliant say that?
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