Its getting to the point that reloading for handgun (9mm and 357) is getting to be annoying on a single stage press, but I do not want to go full out for a Dillon setup.

Has anyone tried the cheap lee-multi stage presses? Midway has them for 180ish and it seems pretty tempting.

*edit*
One of these is what I was thinking.
Lee Progressive Kit

I have not heard good things about them. The Hornady lock and load has good reports. No personal experience just reading what others have said, when I was thinking the same thing. I am sure others will add their own experiences.

Perhaps a Lee CLASSIC Turret Press or if you want a true progressive look at the Hornady LnL AP

or

Disregard all other brands and go directly to Dillon and buy the most expensive one they have with all the extras, regardless of your budget or how much ammo you need.

There that should hold off the Blue Boys but maybe not.

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Still Running Against the Wind

go ahead and get a square deal dillion, i have 4 of them they are great and dillion will fix anything on them for free for life.

I'm not a big fan of Lee products in general, but the Lee Classic Turret Press is favored by many handloaders and I doubt it's expensive.

I've used turret presses for decades and currently use a Texan from the '60s. I'm a slow learner and it took me four progressive machines to find out I really didn't need one. I still have two Stars that I no longer use.

How much ammo do you really need? If you need a lot, progressives are the only way to go. However, if you are at all experimentally inclined and want to try a variety of different loads for whatever reasons, there are better, more versatile machines than progressives.

I have a feeling that if you get a turret press, using it will become "annoying" soon thereafter. You are ready for a progressive. I'd look for a good deal on a used Dillon 550, if you can't swing the cost of a new one. The Square Deal is a nice little press, but the dies are proprietary (only fit the SD). The Dillon 550 will use the dies you already have.

Sadly it is no longer how much ammo that I shoot, as it is now how much backlogged reloading will I build up before I can process it.

Life gets in the way, and my goal of shooting 150 rounds through the carry guns per week ends up burying me in empty cases by the time work and medic school allow me to reload.

I may look into a dillon, I thought they were in the $600 range, but the 550c is only $413 direct from dillon.

My rifle ammo is still done for precision long range work, that will still be single stage. I just want to be able to blast out a month or two backlog for the handguns.

If your speaking of the Lee 1000 progressive presses they can be temperamental to get and keep running. The priming system in particular can be problematic. I've owned several 1000's and wouldn't go back. I run Lee Classic Turret Presses now and love them for their mix of speed , control and reliability. You can get into a LTC with dies, powder measure and safety prime for about $200. Oddly, production rate on a it is not far off a full progressive as set-up and materials handling are simplified.

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Dave

Buy once, cry once. Down the road that price for the Dillon will look better and better.

My choice was a Dillon 550b. It doesn't index automatically, but I find that a safety feature if I should be interrupted, or just want to take a break from the computer and reload. I can easily do 400 rounds/hour, indexing and placing cartridges and bullets by hand.

I load at least 8 different calibers, and to save time I get the quick change die block, about half with a dedicated powder dispenser. I can change over in about 15 minutes.

The 550b gives you a lot of flexibility, including both pistol and rifle calibers. (The Square is pistol-only).

A turret press saves setup time, but still needs 3-4 strokes per finished cartridge. Primer feeding is very crude, and you need an external powder die.

The only press lee makes i would own is the classic turret or their hvy duty ss press. If you want a progressive, get one that works. Money i can make, time i can not.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

100% agree until you said production rate isnt far from a progressive. Maybe not far from a lee progressive, but you aren't even sniffing 200rds an hour on a turret, much less the 400+ in even the 550b.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I've got a few presses;Lee,Dillons Rcbs.I shoot aprox 1K rds rifle/year and a little over 15K handgun rds/year(not counting rimfires).
Long story short,1 Dillon(old RL300) set up on small pistol primer calibers and the other on LP primers(Square Deal B).
My Lee turret press is set up with a few turret heads pre-adjusted for different calibers(.223,.308Win,30-06 Sprg,.303Br,45-70Govt).
Considering the quantity of rds fired/year,this set up satisfies me.
Now,if you shoot more than 2.5Krds/year handgun ammo,I think that you'll grow quickly bored with a turret press whatever the brand.Just my $.002 opinion.
Qc

Dillon XL 650 is top dog in my opinion. It certainly isn't the least expensive, but the best never is. Pay once - enjoy it care free forever. There is NO ONE that beats Dillon's no BS lifetime guarantee!!!!!

If you're going to shoot a lot of one load in one caliber a Dillon Square Deal is a very nice machine for not as much money as other Dillons. I picked up one when I was shooting IDPA with 9mm, and got another one when I switched to 38 revolvers. Both presses were used and came in calibers I didn't want, but in each case I think it cost me about $15 out of pocket to get the parts I needed, after I sold the old parts on ebay.

But I'm now shooting mostly 32 caliber revolvers, loading everything from puffball wadcutters to pretty hot H&R Magnum rounds, and one round I worked up to shoot to the sights of one gun at the velocity I want. With this much variability in powder charges and bullet seating, a Square Deal would not be the weapon of choice. So I went back to my Lee Loadmaster. The disk powder measure allows near instant change to a specific different powder charge, and I've marked the adjustment knob on the bullet seating die to let me dial to the correct setting for a variety of bullets. With good notes, changing to a new load is a quick and stress free operation.

I'm not ready to spring for a progressive but I have found ways to smooth my single stage operation to the point where it's satisfactory. A good powder measure and digital scale helped. I devised a way to charge and check weights that are smooth and don't have to move my hands so much. I may go to repriming on the press instead of a hand tool. I've about got all the 'kinks' out of working on the press with all of my calibers. I started using Imperial sizing wax and resizing was never easier. I could sit in a chair and resize/deprime 30-06 cases where before I had to stand up to get enough force on the handle. I've placed the components and final products in a steady stream where I don't have to move my hands back and forth. The finished bullets get dropped in a box on the floor. My new tumbler cuts the time of cleaning cases to nothing.

I just have a whole new operation from what I had a year ago. I'm making plenty of ammo in bigger batches. Now I don't have to put off my range trips until I get all the ammo worked up.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

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Still Running Against the Wind

Is the reason for not wanting to go full progressive due to cost or technical reasons? If due to cost, think about this:

Using Missouri Bullet Company for the bullet source, 158 gr .358 lead bullets are $35/500. 124 gr .356 (for 9mm) are $32/500. Call it an average of $33.50/500, or $67/1000.

Assume you have a good source for primers, say $24/1000. That brings you to $91/1000.

Powder - this greatly depends on the powder, but assuming 5 gr. per load, 1 lb of powder = 7000 gr / 5 gr per load = 1400 rounds per pound. To make the math easy, assume $21/lb. That works out to $15 / 1000 rounds for powder.

Cost is now $106 per 1000 rounds.

The Dillion 550c, at $413, costs approximately 3900 rounds, or at your 150 rounds/weeks, 26 weeks.

The Lee, at around $200, costs approximately 1900 rounds, or 13 weeks.

Or stated a different way, for the cost of 13 weeks of shooting 150 rounds/week, you can get a Dillion rather than a Lee.

The Dillion will last you a lifetime. The Lee? I wouldn't count on it.

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Common sense isn't so common.

I am constantly amazed at shooters who happily pay $600 a year to shoot 3k rds of 9mm yet agonize over spending the same amount for a 550b/c & acces to reload efficiently. Even if i didnt work, my time still has value. Trying to save a few $100 on gear that cost you 100s of extra hours a year reloading, truely false economy.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Add all the parts needed for any press to get up and running and then see what the cost is.It's more than just the press.

Lee Classic 4 Hole indexing Turret Press
Lee 4 die set
Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure
Lee Riser
Lee Safety Prime

Ammo Making Components
Summers Enterprises Bullets
S&B primers
Powders of your choice

Empty brass cases should already be in your possession or need to be added to the startup cost.

Always shop for your best deals to keep reloading costs down.

The next good deals should be for the 4th of July Independence Day Sales.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I guess I am backwards. I had a 550 and sold it, leaving me with a Lee turret and a Rockchucker. Loading for 10 handgun rounds and 13 rifle rounds I want the versatility of changing turrets and the ability to move dies between presses for whatever reasons. In a rapid mode I can get 120-150 rounds per hour on a Lee turret press. I can't justify the set up time or space to run Dillons.

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Front sight and squeeze

Should you ever decide to move up to a Dillon, the Lee dies will be too short to function properly.

Try to find someone who has a Lee and someone who has a Dillon. Do a compare and contrast to find which press you like the best and buy one. Cost is amortized over time. You can also sell the equipment when you lose interest or are too old to shoot.

I just went with a Lee Classic Turret press, after using a single stage press for 30 years. It is much faster, almost progressive speeds. I have setup turrets for the rounds I load the most. Also have different disks setup for loads I repeat often. under $200 for a full kit. Thought about a Dillion, but I don't load enough to justify it for money. Really up to you and what our needs are.

My advice is to save yourself a lot of time and aggrevation, and just buy a good, reliable progressive press. In my experience, either Hornady LnL Progressive, or Dillon 650XL would be your best choice.

The Lee Turret is a decent option, used one for a year, but it is nowhere near as good as my recommendation. Definitely an improvement over a single stage press. But, you're just wasting time and money. Buy the Hornady LnL, or Dillon 650 progressive and you'll be so much happier. So much more efficient.

Once you make this move, you'll regret not having done it sooner.

Feel free to PM me if you want to talk offline, or on the phone about pros and cons of options.

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NRA Life Member

Plenty are using new lee dies on their dillon's.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

The Lct is a good press, might be the best lee makes, but no, not almost progressive speeds. You pull the handle on any turret 4x for a single round. Onany progressive, one pull, one loaded round. The 75% reductionin work alone is worth the cost of a decent progressive. Go fast, go slow, options & less work, true no brainer imo.
Loading 150rds an hour on a lct is 450 handle pulls. On a 550b/c, 30 min is loafing & only 153 handke pulls. That is easily worth the addl $250 over an lct. After 1 year, you'll wonder why you loaded so long & worked so hard to produce ammo.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Used Dillon 550s are not hard to find. Lots of guys move up the 650. My 550 is from the 80's, and Dillon has replaced the few parts I've needed at no charge. If you don't like it, they hold their value, and you won't lose much if you sell.

I personally don't care to make a press recommendation but will say that I have the Hornady LNL with a few convenience add-ons by inline fabrication but without a case feeder or bullet feeder. The debate between the Dillon and Hornady LNL is for someone else to shepherd but allow me to say that I have my LNL running like a watch and if I can do it anyone can do it.

The real point to make is when you find yourself churning out 400-500 rounds per hour it is at first a great feeling but after a few years that 400-500 rounds/hour becomes very slow. I spent 4 hours at the bench today and have 1500 rounds of 9mm to show for it, which is great, but it's still 4 hours of time. A case feeder is on my wish list. So if your at the point where all you need is 500 rounds per month then maybe you can avoid a progressive but if there is even a remote possibility that you might need a greater volume then save your money and get a quality progressive press you will not regret it.

The Lee Classic Turret press might be the best thing Lee offers but if you find that you need 1500 rounds in the locker then you will appreciate having a Dillon or Hornady progressive on your bench instead of an LCT because that press will turn 4 hours into 10 hours of very intense handle pulling.

Because a turret press is actually, in-fact, a single stage press because it works 1 piece of brass at a time. 3 or 4 pulls of the handle for 1 round of ammo. And you already according to the OP, have a single stage press. It really is that simple but we as handloaders tend to make things a bit more complicated than what is really necessary.

Spend some time on the Dillon web site. I found a calculator on there that will figure out your break even point. You load in component costs and all the info and it will tell you when you can expect to pay for your press in savings.
First Dillon came to my house in the mid 80's. The second in early 2000's. One for small primers and one for large primers. Dillon has bought me lots of parts over the years. Without a doubt one high class operation that know how to take care of customers. I load for quantity, and when I want precision I go back to the Rock chucker.

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"Tastes just like chicken"

I reload 5 calibers, but just the 9mm and 38 special in large quantities.

I find the picking up, sorting and cleaning brass unpleasant, and more than half my "reloading" time is spent on this. I work on case prep every week or so.

I moved up from a single station Lee to Lee turret press a few years ago. This was a major improvement, but still needed to load each week to keep up with shooting.

I decided to upgrade to a progressive. A case feed was important, but to me a powder check station was mandatory. On the 38 special (or 357), there is no way to monitor case powder levels during the progressive loading process.

Now my reloading is not dictated by my shooting schedule. It's very easy to load a couple thousand rounds ahead. I change over calibers every couple of months and just shoot out of my bank.

My reloading sessions are just about as long, but are not tied to my range trips. I did not do detailed research on progressive brands, was not trying to find the best value... but wanted to be satisfied with the final outcome. I have been very satisfied with the 650 for three years.

"I am constantly amazed:"

How many times this topic is just beat to death. Probably the only reloading forum where this mantra goes on and on so much,

How can RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, Redding and Lee remain in business.??

Why does anyone buy any 1911 other than a Ed Brown or Les Baer?

Why buy a AR 15 other than a Daniel Defense. LWRC. Colt is in the dust?

Why buy optics other than Schmidt Bender, Zeiss,.Swarovski?

Why do people buy Ford, Chevy or Fiat/Dodge? So many better cars out there.??

The list goes on.

Different stokes for different folks!

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Still Running Against the Wind

Goggle search Ultimate Reloader then watch his videos. Gavin is a straight shooter then based on your wallet and needs.

I have a Lee 1000 that I boxed up after buying my dillion 650 with case feeder. my plan was to sell the lee to help pay for the Dillion. I was spending more time tinkering with the lee to keep it going than I was reloading. I would get it running smoothless than 100 rounds and it was time to tinker again. I cannot bring my self to sell it, I would be willing to send it to you if you want to pay shipping, it comes with no dies, it is the kit with powder drop, and I do have extra part to keep it running. pm me if interested.

There are many topics that get "beaten to death" on a regular and often frequent basis. It seems there is an endless supply of willing and opinionated (and sometimes experienced) participants. I don't say that from a self-righteous perspective as I've often been one of the responders.

Last week, however, after replying to the semi-monthly Lee Factory Crimp Die discourse, I realized how nearly pointless many of these exchanges are. Nevertheless, perhaps the person who initiated a thread with the hope of gaining some knowledge can wade through the responses and sort out the good and useful. It's almost always there, that tiny but worthwhile 5% -10% of total comments.

It's hard to concede that my remarks are often as worthless and repetitive as those of the next guy, but it's best to face facts. Maybe once in a while we put something out there that's a true gem in the way of advice and actually helps someone. I'm not certain, but maybe that's reason enough to keep the recurrent threads alive...

I live in NorCal and have been reloading for a few years on a single stage press. I too have been looking into a progressive because of the crazy gun laws in my state. When you purchase a progressive you also need all the goodies, otherwise it doesn't make sense. Everything is going to cost you over 1 grand. Like the Hornady amo plant seen here. After all this:
oad AP Press
- Lock-N-Load AP Bullet Feeder
- Lock-N-Load AP Case Feeder
- Lock-N-Load AP Die Bushing 10 pack
- Spring Case Retainer 3 pack (x2)
- Large Cartridge Catcher (x3)
- Large Primer Tube Pickup (x3)
- Small Primer Tube Pickup (x3)
- Primer Slide Spring (x2)
- Pistol Metering Insert/Rotor
- Rifle Metering Insert/Rotor
- Powder Cop
- Die Wrench
- Case Activated Powder Drop
- Vintage Tin Sign
You still need to purchase dies.

No its not a ford/chevy argument. That is brand, a truck is a truck. What amazes me is the short sighted approach many take to reloading & their time & work load all to save a couple $100. Stop being defensive, no one is bashing your lee gear.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Drop the bullet feeder, will save you $300. Unless you need really high volume, bullet feeders offer a lot of complication to a simple operation.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Well Sir, that makes no sense at all. If a "truck is a truck" than a press is a press (or in Dillon speak and reloading MACHINE)

The OP stated he wants 150 rounds a week. Does that justify a progressive??

Every time this topic comes up its. Dillon, Dillon. Granted they make great equipment, but so do other companies.

The Blue Kool Aid is strong in you

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Still Running Against the Wind

The blue kool aid is definitely strong in me. I'm one and done on presses with my 650. I think whether you shoot 150 rounds a week or twice that, it's a huge time saver. What it's worth is highly subjective, and usually comes down to funds you are willing to allocate. If it wasn't for the production rate of my 650, I wouldn't be shooting as much as I do because I would be unwilling to reload as much as I do. Between .357 and .44 my set up has paid for itself about 8 times in less than three years based on the spread between my component costs, and commercial .357 & .44 at my LGS's. For me the return on investment it pretty tightly correlated to the production rate, and that's what makes the premium of the 650 of value TO ME. I dare say others similarly situated will enjoy the same benefits.

Here's what two hours work looks like at my house:

Actually, I don't think that anyone is making the point you see. The OP said that he was going to step-up to a turret press. Many, including me, suggested that he might soon tire of the slow pace of a turret press and might eventually wished he had spent the money to get a progressive. The only bashing I've seen of Lee progressives on this thread are from those with bad experiences with Lee progressive presses. Most folks who own progressives, own Dillons (me included) therefore they are going to post about what they have experience with. I have no experience with the Hornady progressives, but have heard a lot of good things about them. You just appear defensive about your decision to own Lee products. If that floats your boat then launch it!

Its been done to death, but again, it isnt just volume but work load. 4 handle pulls one round or one handle pull one round. Simple stuff. Even for 150rds, you do less work.
The question was about progressives. There are facts & there is emotion. Fact, Dillon makes a better press than Lee or hornady for that matter. Though i have stated often, if you never want the case feeder, the Lnl will do. If you fail to understand what a progressive actually does, then take the time to learn about it instead of defending your purchase. You wont look so petty.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

As you point out, a good progressive is a huge savings in the amount of work you have to do to produce the same amount of ammo. Since a lot of these discussions revolve around cost, I thought my example might give a different perspective.

Presumably, most people reload because they shoot a lot and want to save money over buying factory ammo. I was trying to illustrate that the cost of the press quickly becomes insignificant compared to the cost of the components.

I used Dillion in the example because the OP mentioned that. I don't have any experience with Dillion, I use the Hornady.

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Common sense isn't so common.

So now it boils down to personal attacks?

I never once in this thread "defended" Lee. Does Dillon make a better press than Lee? Certainly, no doubt. No I would not recommend a Lee progressive either

The OP in his first post clearly stated "but I do not want to go full out for a Dillon setup".

So I mentioned a Hornday LnL or Lee Turret also indication the Blue Cult would then chime in.

The Dillon Fan boys are like Glock Fan Boys, or a religious cult maybe even Democrats

FYI FWIW I had and used a RCBS Progressive and found it (and any progressive) to be expensive and a PITA to change calibers. I load pretty much every handgun and three rifle. So add that to you investment/return ratio,

Why have a progressive like the 550C which does not auto index? Have you calculated how often/time of manually turning it?? Gee that sounds like a pain.
Base price is $460 with one tool head not $413 plus shipping.

Every Dillon thread has a "Buy once Cry once" cliche. Why should have to cry at all??

Time is not a factor to me, my time is worth nothing,

Lets talk about vehicles, motorcycles or something. Which one is best, no doubt if it's not a Harley it's not a motorcycle unless its a BMW.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Again rule, you lnow little about progressives. Your arguments are just none sense. If you have used most of the progressives, you would understand how they work & the time/work saved advantage, manually indexing a 550 is no addl work. Your thumb is right there when you place the bullet. Its not pulling the handle, not even close.
The various turret presses offer litlke speed advantage & no reduction of work. So you pay a little less, *** cares? In the realm of shooting cost, the cheapest thing you will buy is your reloading setup. before the dillon 550, there might have been an argument for any turret. Today the turret is just a slightly faster ss press. The o ly thing it offers over a progressive is cost savings, which was my originsl point you jumped on. The cheapest thing you will buy over 10yrs of shooting is the reloading gear. That would include a fully decked out 650, which few eally need.
Btw, i have supported tje lnl for those not wantinpg the case feeder. Not because it is better than a 650 just more user friendly & cheaper w/o the feeder. With the feeder. You save a whopping $75 & get some bullets. Fwiw, your time is worth nothing until your dead. Just a thought.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

My friend you are the one that needs a time out sorry if that offends you.

In my opinion yes handloaders (including Lee and Dillon owners) approach this at times with as you suggest a religious fervor, my observation is that between the two parties the one that make the more exaggerated speed claims of the magic at the end of the handle are those who really want to convince others to buy an LCT. It is a predictable and actually laughable claim but it goes unchallenged thread after thread.

If one has plenty of time and no interests outside of shooting or simply the desire to pull the handle 3 times more per round of ammo than necessary then ok but as mentioned several times in this thread even 500 rounds/hour can, over time, seem slow. So friendly advice, give some consideration into spending a tad more money now for quality that will last and quantity that will satisfy for many years. Or buy a little more speed and get plastic coupled with the ability to pat ones self on the back for saving a few bux.

You Sir , need to go back a re read and actually comprehend what was written. Where did I make any speed claims or rounds per hour? Many reloaders use many different OTHER presses. The OP asked for 150 rounds per week.

I spent my money on a $70,000 car, and $40,000 boat It's more fun than reloading so I don't need to save a few buxs

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Still Running Against the Wind

I chose the Lee turret press kit for my first press and so glad I did. I took out the rotator shaft and just rotate the die plate by hand. I presently load 38 and 44 special with it and I have done a couple thousand I guess with no problems with the press. I just switch out the die plate from one caliber to the next in less than a minute.
People said I should start with a single stage but I really think if I had then I would have lost interest in reloading due to the time involved doing all the set up steps.
I think I paid around $140 delivered for it. I heard so many people saying a Lee is a fix or repair daily presses and just go with the Dillon. I checked into a Dillon and after all the extra things needed the cost was way more than I wanted to pay. I am not the least bit sorry I bought the Lee turret press and I am so glad I didn't buy a single stage to start.
BTW I can load 100 rounds in 45 minutes which could be faster but do I a lot of weighing and measuring and checking rounds as I reload.
But like they say to each his own. Whatever trips your trigger go for it.

See rule, you are the one that started this mess rolling downhill. Reality sucks for the less informed, but carry on.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO