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Old 06-19-2017, 11:42 PM
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Default S&W Heavy Duty 38 Spl - load recommendations

I'm attempting to find a nice S&W Heavy Duty 38/44 revolver (5 inch preference). I intend to develop some loads for it but I'm concerned that constant use of early type 38-44 loads could potentially damage this fine revolver (it's been out of production for years, and how can one find the right gunsmith with parts to fix it?).

What are your recommendations for a good working load for this revolver in light of my concerns? Perhaps a Speer Manual #14 38 Special +P 158 gr lead loading using Power Pistol? I could probably push a 158 gr bullet with their data to about 950 to 1,000 fps in a 5 inch barrel.

Appreciate your inputs and recommendations.

Thank you
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:17 AM
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12gr 2400 any 150 to 175gr swc or rn bullet standard primer....................
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:01 AM
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A lot of the .38-44's were rechambered to .357 Magnum, a simple task involving just deepening the charge holes. I've owned and shot a few with both factory and my own .357 handloads. A common practice before .357 Magnum revolvers became more available, in the 1960's.

Not a recommendation or endorsement of the practice by me, but I doubt than any reasonable handload you could put up in .38 Special cases will cause one of the Heavy Duties to do more than shrug.
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:49 AM
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The old "Atomic" Speer #8 manual has a K frame with the 38 cases up
to 1155 fps with 2400 and the medium burning Unique up to 1085fps.

I see no problem getting your PP powder up to those speeds
with todays +P loadings..........
that will still be safe in your heavy frame revolver.

Have fun.
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:16 PM
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The older Lyman handbooks recommended mainly the use of 2400 in heavy .38 Special loads, but they did have some Unique loads. Maximum loads given are: lead 158 grain GC - 11.8 2400 (MV = 1210); lead 155 grain - 12.0 2400 (MV = 1227); lead 150 grain GC - 13.5 2400 (MV = 1210). The maximum load for Unique is 6.4 grains with the 150 grain bullet (MV =1154). No jacketed bullet loads are given.

2400 is probably the best propellant available for heavy .38 Special loads, but possibly similar slower burning rate powders like H110, AA#9, etc. might work out OK. If you have a chronograph, it should be fairly easy to come up with some good loads with other propellants having MVs in your revolver in the 1100-1200 ft/sec range. You won't blow up your HD. Like the previous poster, I also have a HD with lengthened chambers, and I have not had any problems shooting full-house .357 reloads in it. But I don't do that very often.
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:54 PM
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I'll go with 2400 although I would start with 8.5 grn/158 loads and work up. That should give you around 900 fps.

I know that seems like a light load but you decide for yourself when you shoot it. Often I have been given a load or got one from a manual and they seem pretty hot so I back them down. Better safe than sorry.

Load (6) starting with 8.5 grns, (6) with 9 grns, (6) with 9.5 grns. and (6) with 10.0 grns. and see how it goes.

Personally I wouldn't go over 10 grains but that's just me. That should give you around 1000 fps. If you want more horsepower get a 357. I load a lot of 357 using 2400. My std. 357 screwing around load is 12.5/158 LSWC using 2400. You might be getting into a compressed load with more than 10 grns in a 38 case. Something to check for.
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:16 PM
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Original Elmer Keith load was 13.5grs 2400 with the Lyman 358429 SWC which is nuclear hot . I shoot 12.5grs with the same bullet which exits a 6 1/2" barrel about 1325fps , 12.0grs gave 1287fps but accuracy was better @ 12.5 . This is from a pre 23 ODM the other N frame 38 special . Discontinued IMR 4756 @ 7.0grs ( 1141 fps )was ideal for this type of loads , but I've found good performance from H 4227 , W 296 , VVN 105 & 110 & 800X . I wouldn't shoot these from a K frame unless it was a 357 mag .
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Old 06-30-2017, 11:55 AM
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I also found that using the Lyman 358429 ( Keith swc) of 173 grs approx. using 12.5 grs of 2400 was more accurate for me than 13.5 grs . I think that instead of down loading to 8-9 grs of 2400 , I would simply turn to Unique , Universal , Power Pistol etc . I found that 5.4 grs of Unique worked well with that bullet . More powerful than std 38spl but not close to a 357 mag load .
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Old 06-30-2017, 05:56 PM
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[QUOTE=cowboy4evr;139649244 I think that instead of down loading to 8-9 grs of 2400 , I would simply turn to Unique , Universal , Power Pistol etc . I found that 5.4 grs of Unique worked well with that bullet . More powerful than std 38spl but not close to a 357 mag load .[/QUOTE]

Ditto here!I've tried Power Pistol and it does the same job as Unique but only needs a little more.
The 5.4 Unique load is a good one and I'm almost tempted to add soft shooting too.
Qc
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Old 06-30-2017, 07:39 PM
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Keep in mind that power pistol burns pretty hot, and if you are using lead loads you may have a lot of barrel cleaning to do. I always like to keep with the slower burning powders that push the round out, rather than the faster ones that have sudden peak pressure to "launch" the round.
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Old 06-30-2017, 07:45 PM
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I have an old Speer # 11 (from the bad old days of CUP pressure measurements). These were all labeled 38 +P loads, not heavy duty / 38-44.
So for what its worth, these are some of my results:
Penn 158Gr LFP and Hornady 158Gr LSWCHP
2400:
9Gr: 980 fps 10Gr: 1050 fps
Unique:
5Gr: 920 fps 5.5Gr: 1040 fps
Power Pistol:
6 Gr: 1040 fps

I do use a pretty heavy crimp so I tend to get higher average velocities and shorter brass life than I think is commonly reported.

Good luck and remember to start your load development low and work up
Be safe and have fun
PS:
When you find your 38-44 we will want to see pictures
Ira
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Old 06-30-2017, 08:03 PM
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I'm on board with the mid-range Unique loads and a heavy crimp. There is quite a bit of whomp factor, judging by the reaction of my steel plates. I'm also a fan of shooting revolvers with the stocks that SW gave them. For pre-war HD's, that mostly means service style stocks. I'm not looking to magnumize anything with those itty bitty grips, if you know what I mean.
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Old 06-30-2017, 08:52 PM
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What do you want it to do? If you want to push 357 velocities I suggest you are better off with one. If you want to plink and punch holes in paper there are a ton of loads that will leave you and your revolver happy. 3 gr BE and any 158 gr SWC are a nice place to start.
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