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  #51  
Old 07-03-2017, 09:32 PM
Sclays Sclays is offline
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THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
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Default Motivation for reloading

Entering into the realm of metallic reloading is serious stuff.
An individual's motivation to reload must exceed the economic benefit.
There must be a desire for good craftsmanship.

You want to save a few bucks as well as all your fingers.
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  #52  
Old 07-04-2017, 12:08 AM
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The other reason I reload is that for bulleye shooting there are not a lot of choices for factory ammo, my 45 acp loads are loaded to a lot slower fps than most factory ammo. Even my 38 special rounds are lighter. Now for my .357's
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  #53  
Old 07-04-2017, 12:15 AM
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True. Handloading requires attention to detail to be safely done..

So do many other things in life. Driving an automobile for instance. But in handloading I am responsible and I can make my work safe. Driving a car, I can be safe and someone else can kill me by being unsafe. Not in my control, but I am still dead.

I am not encouraging anyone who doesn't think handloading is for them to try it. But I am also guessing that very few "never me's" are browsing this topic.
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Old 07-04-2017, 09:11 AM
2152hq 2152hq is offline
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Good thread,,lots of interesting comments.

I look at reloading as a hobby. I'm sure most everyone here does too. Might be someone here that reloads as a business, sells the reloads commercially, pays FETax, ect. As a business, you can calculate a $/hr on your labor to produce the finished product.

But as a hobby, it's your 'free time' invested. Don't like to reload?, don't invest this available free time you have in it. Your option then is to buy ammo. Some calibers are pretty cheap,,others not.

As a hobby, I just like reloading. I like to make low pressure loads for the elderly guns I normally shoot.

It's also the only way I can get ammunition for some of the odd calibers I shoot,,by making them. I enjoy that process too. WallyWorld doesn't stock .256 Gibbs Mannlicher but I can make it rather easily.

No one pays me to reload,,I don't play games on the computer but if I did, I wouldn't expect anyone to pay me by the hr to do so either. Nor go fishing, play golf or read a book. It's what you do with your free time.
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Old 07-04-2017, 09:54 AM
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Lots of good content in the posts here.
I'll add that you can get started for much less than the $1500 chief38 mentioned if you don't shoot high quantities. I have two single stage Lee presses, one dedicated to de-capping and one for all other steps. About $115 combined, carbide dies can be $35 and up based on what brand, mine are $35-60 sets. The inexpensive powder drop I have $30 really works fine with powders that meter well. Amazon for a ultrasonic cleaner takes care of deprimed brass cleaning $80 isn. I did splurge a bit on a medical digital scale, used on Ebay for $115 and well worth it. Hand primer $35.

Anyhow, for about $500 I believe you can be in business before powders, primers bullets etc. Once you get a bit of a rhythm and process down you will be pleased on how many bullets you can produce from a single stage press set up and it is a good learning curve to have control over each and every step of the process.

As mentioned it is rewarding, therapeutic and allows you to either save money or shoot more Work smart, don't allow yourself to be distracted and things will go just fine and once you make your first bullet you will have a big smile to go with it
Karl
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  #56  
Old 07-04-2017, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2152hq View Post
Good thread,,lots of interesting comments.

I look at reloading as a hobby. I'm sure most everyone here does too. Might be someone here that reloads as a business, sells the reloads commercially, pays FETax, ect. As a business, you can calculate a $/hr on your labor to produce the finished product.

But as a hobby, it's your 'free time' invested. Don't like to reload?, don't invest this available free time you have in it. Your option then is to buy ammo. Some calibers are pretty cheap,,others not.

As a hobby, I just like reloading. I like to make low pressure loads for the elderly guns I normally shoot.

It's also the only way I can get ammunition for some of the odd calibers I shoot,,by making them. I enjoy that process too. WallyWorld doesn't stock .256 Gibbs Mannlicher but I can make it rather easily.

No one pays me to reload,,I don't play games on the computer but if I did, I wouldn't expect anyone to pay me by the hr to do so either. Nor go fishing, play golf or read a book. It's what you do with your free time.
I got into reloading for the same reason, odd calibers, ( in my case the .41 Long Colt) Reloading is the only economical way to shoot my Army Specials in .41LC.

I do reload several other calibers now, reloading ammo brings satisfaction, and saves some money, but even if it didn't,I would still do it as a logical extension of the gun collecting/shooting hobby.
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  #57  
Old 07-04-2017, 01:31 PM
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I got into reloading for less than $30.00. Lee loader, 100 CCI primers, 1 lb. Bullseye, 100 generic lead bullets. I already had a plastic mallet. I had about 200-300 range pickups for brass. Maybe someone could tell me how to figger how much money I've "saved" since summer of 1969?
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:13 PM
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Handloads.com is a great site. There is a section for cost calculator. You can enter your component costs, and it calculates $ per round, & box. Recipes, and other neat stuff too! Bob
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  #59  
Old 07-06-2017, 11:27 PM
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Referencing my earlier post on how easy/cheaply a newb could get into reloading, I got out the old Lee exercise machine and cranked out 50 on the breakfast table. Took 40 minutes start to finish using tumbled brass. (Had I used the ultrasound it MIGHT have added five minutes.) Bet a beginner could do the first 50 in twice that and by the time they had made 20 or 30 boxes be as fast as I am. I did forget to add a priming tool into the cost estimate. Maybe some extra dippers, used 0.7cc of TB and 160gr RF .358s. Midway is selling a similar cowboy load for $24.00 a box. This was $5.50 for the bullets, $1.10 for primers, $0.80 for powder, so $7.40 lets say $7.50 for a savings of $16.50 or $ 23.00 per hour.
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  #60  
Old 07-07-2017, 01:19 PM
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Shot 25 of them this morning. Very accurate out of a 2 inch M36, Trailboss IMHO shoves more than kicks. Uncertain what the velocity is, faster than I can see and slower than 2400, maybe I will get one of those crony-o-grafs someday.
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  #61  
Old 07-07-2017, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
muddocktor wrote:
hdwit, you are buying the wrong bullets if it costs you $0.24 a round for 38 Special.
Much as I appreciate your suggestion, the bullets I am currently using run me about 12 cents each, so buying more bullets from Zero than I ever anticipate shooting in the rest of my lifetime simply to reduce unit cost to 10.6 cents each would be a false economy for me.
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  #62  
Old 07-07-2017, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
PaulWVa wrote:
I don't buy the "time" inclusion as part of cost. Bad logic.
It's called "full absorption accounting" and it's not bad logic, it is a part of generally accepted cost accounting practice.

And since I run my own company, I could be working more and generating additional billing instead of reloading, so again, the logic of including it as a trade-off is sound.
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Old 07-07-2017, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
2152hq wrote:
I look at reloading as a hobby. ... But as a hobby, it's your 'free time' invested. Don't like to reload?, don't invest this available free time you have in it.
I view it as a hobby, too.

Well, I view it more as occupational therapy. I reload to stay stay sane enough to go do the work that generates the revenue to let me afford to reload.

But, if it's a hobby in which there is no question of the value of the time invested, then there's likewise no question of "saving" money by doing it; because once someone says they reload to save money then they have introduced profit and loss into the equation and made their hobby into a business and all the rules of running a business and accounting for it are fair game.
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Old 07-07-2017, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
RobertJ wrote:
Unless you enjoy it, in which case it's a hobby!
But if it's a hobby there's no question of whether it is done to save money yet that is precisely what the OP was trumpeting.
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  #65  
Old 07-07-2017, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by WVSig View Post
Exactly I much prefer this to the false narrative that reloading saves everyone who does it money. I know just as many people who bought equipment hated it and sold it's a loss or never use it as people who love reloading.

If you look at it as a hobby it makes much more sense to me. I don't know about anyone else but I lose $$$ on all my hobbies. LOL

The other part that is missing from the false narrative is that most people who shoot regularly have a budget to spend on their hobby. X $$$ a month or a year can go towards a hobby like shorting. Reloading does not shrink that budget it allows you to shoot more for the same money. Actual savings in your pocket doesn't happen because you take the saving and buy more components or load and shoot more rounds. It's not like the "savings" goes into your 401k.
It is NOT a false narrative. You will save $$$ on a per round basis. What you choose to do with the "savings" is up to you, including your 401k. Some shoot more, some the same. For me it isn't money that determines my shooting but time. I have to drive a min 1hr each way to shoot. At 15mpg, my gas cost more than my reloaded ammo for the trip.
FWIW, you don't count the $$ saved as spent buying components. That is figured into your reloaded ammo cost. If I load 9mm for 12c a round, I save 8c a round min over factory. So buying more components is already factored in.
I shoot the same amount whether I reload or not. In fact, with a good progressive press, I can argue I make money reloading vs working to make the same amount of money to buy ammo. I make 9mm for 12c/rd or less buying bullets. So I save $8/100. It takes me an honest 1hr to make 700rds on my 650 or a savings of $56/hr. That is NET. I would have to make right at $100 /hr gross to buy that amount of ammo. I do NOT make $100/hr, few people do. So I would have to work 2-3 extra hours to make the same amount of $$ to buy the same amount of ammo. If your time is valuable, buy better gear.
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  #66  
Old 07-07-2017, 10:08 PM
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Maybe I misinterpreted the OP's thesis here...
I thought his point was "If you like to shoot, reloading saves you money". Not "Go into reloading to make/save money", or "If shooting is your hobby, reloading can be a fun second hobby".

Properly, proportionally done, the first of those three statements is irrefutable. If you shoot, you can buy $150 worth of equipment that will make good ammunition for 25-35% off the cost of store-bought. If you shoot 10,000 rounds a year you can buy $3,000 dollars worth of equipment that will save you enough to very quickly amortize the cost of that equipment.

I did not think the OP's point was you have to reload. Or even that the reason to reload was to save money. But I have been known to be wrong.
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSig View Post
Every single time this topic comes up the issue of time and the value of ones time or labor comes up. Everyone who argues that reloading saves them money never account for the "cost" or value of their time. They always call it a hobby and therefore there is no $$$$ value to their time. The TV analogy also always makes an appearance.
You are of course welcome to your opinion, but for the most part you are wrong.

Time spent involved in an activity you enjoy reduces stress which according to the doctors - is very healthy.

Time is valuable only if someone is willing to pay for your time. You are not paid for the time spend taking a shower, mowing your grass, or driving your car to work. In fact, those activities cost money to accomplish.

With reloading however, after a modest investment you are paid in nice shiny bullets and a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:04 AM
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Default The cost is not $0.00 , but close

I've been reloading ammo and casting bullets since 1975. I waded through a 1 semester course about 'Engineering Economics' , change my own oil, rotate tires, and do my own vehicle maintenance until the "computer" gets involved. All of this is done to save money. How you calculate the savings is your problem.

This is the cost of 50 rounds of 9 MM ammo loaded with 130 gr cast lead bullet. The brass is range pickup, and lead is mined from the back stop / berm. When a new mold is bought, enough bullets are cast to recoup the cost of the mold the first time. Cost of 50 rounds of 9 MM is $2.05 per box, about the same price as 22 LR bought on sale. I'm retired, have $0.00 earned income, and my time is mine unless you want me to work for you. But I don't think you can afford my labor rate, if you can, I'll raise it.

Close rule of thumb: 1,000 cast bullets exceeds cost of any 6-cavity mold. An exception: 45-70 mold, handles and sizer body was $145 delivered. Cast .458 diameter bullets are $140 per 500 plus shipping. So about 500 bullets paid for the new caliber setup.

Copy and paste from an Excel spread sheet looks really ugly and hard to read.


Caliber: 9 MM Std. Cost
Powder / lb. $21.00
Powder chrg, gr. 3.6 cost = $0.54
Bullets / 1C $1 cost = $0.50
Primers / 1M $20 cost = $1.00
Brass / 1C 0 cost = $0.00
Ammo count 50 Total cost = $2.04
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Old 07-10-2017, 09:11 AM
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Pretty sad that reloading has come down to a "cost accounting" class. Had enough of that in school and business.

If reloading is considered a job than quit.

How does anyone have a hobby or past time? Spend money on cars, boats, golf whatever??
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