Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-01-2017, 06:37 PM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,546
Likes: 2,213
Liked 7,150 Times in 3,183 Posts
Default THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION

This is not the first time I have discussed this subject but since it does seem to come up from time to time I figured I'd post this again. The costs below are from what I have personally purchased in the recent past.

Let's say one is going to buy a Reloading Outfit to load .38 Special, .45 acp and .45 Colt. I am NOT including the cost of the Brass because IMHO there is no reason to buy it! Almost any Range is laden with once fired Brass in these popular calibers and it is there for the taking. My Club Ranges are so heavily littered with perfectly serviceable Brass I always tell new guys getting into reloading NOT to buy the cases. I would have a hard time believing your local Ranges are any different. I have given out thousands and thousands of Brass to new Re-loaders just to get them started. OK - so let's say the Brass is free.

Bullet heads for target shooting that I use are lead. I pay 0.089 cents for a 230 grain .45 acp bullet, 0.065 cents for a 158 grain RNL bullet and 0.100 cents for a .45 Colt 255 RNFP bullet all from Dardas Cast Bullets which I think are very good quality.

I use Titegroup for .38 Spl and .357 Mag, W231 for .45 acp and Unique for .45 Colt. Since all of those powders all cost about $20 / lb (I buy 8 pound cans).

Primers are selling for about $28 - $30 bucks per 1000 so that comes to about 0.030 each.

OK - now the math......

.38 special

cartridge Case.......... FREE
Bullet ..................... 6.5 cents
Powder.................... 1.0 cent
Primer..................... 3.0 cents

TOTAL..................... 10.5 cents / rnd x 50 = $5.50 /box of 50


.45 acp

Cartridge Case........... FREE
Bullet........................ 9 cents
Powder...................... 1.3 cents
Primer....................... 3.0 cents

TOTAL....................... 13.3 cents / rnd x 50 = $6.65/box of 50


.45 Colt

Cartridge Case .......... FREE
Bullet....................... 10 cents
Powder..................... 2.3 cents
Primer...................... 3 cents

TOTAL....................... 15.3 cents each x 50 = $7.65/box of 50

There are 7000 grains of powder in a pound so you can divide how many grains of powder you are using into 7000 and come up with cost per round based on your price per pound.

A GOOD reloading outfit can certainly be purchased for $1500.00 or so. If you save $15 per box over name brand Factory ammo (average of course - some more some less) and you take the $1500 equipment cost and divide it by the savings per box ( 1500 / 15 = 100 boxes of ammo) you will break even and pay for all your equipment after 100 boxes or 5,000 rounds.

While I don't know how long it would take you guys to shoot 5,000 rounds I know I go through that in about 6 months. So that is my perspective on just how fast reloading equipment and components will pay for themselves. Slightly longer if you buy super premium equipment and slightly less if you buy budget stuff. I suppose it also depends on what bullets you shoot but for Target shooting I have no problem using lead cast bullets.

OTHER THAN DOLLARS AND CENTS NOW:

Many guys like myself are serious target shooters and like shooting very accurate and slightly lighter recoiling bullets. I load my target ammo to respectable velocities but not up to defensive ammo velocities. So you can custom tune your own loads to your personal needs.

Many guys find reloading relaxing and enjoyable (I am not really one of them and usually load in bulk - then cover the press again). That's a personal opinion of course.

Once components are procured you never loose the ability to roll your own no matter what the political climate is. Since components last virtually forever if stored properly, you can but in bulk when one of the larger suppliers runs a sale and offers free shipping and NO Haz-Mat fees.

So there is my take on re-loading for those of you who are thinking about taking the plunge!

Regards,
Chief38
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-01-2017, 06:48 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 17,879
Likes: 7,368
Liked 8,704 Times in 4,200 Posts
Default

Nice write up Chief. Only thing I would question is the "free" 45 Colt brass or 357 for that matter. I never see those laying around. But that said once you have some you are good to go.
__________________
SENT FROM MY WIRED DIAL PHONE
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 07-01-2017, 07:43 PM
sw282's Avatar
sw282 sw282 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CSRA
Posts: 1,816
Likes: 234
Liked 1,085 Times in 547 Posts
Default

l suppose the COST savings of hand loading is the primary motivator for most..

Mine is to be able to Custom Tailor a load to a firearm for a specific use.

Example-- l wanted to shoot my S&W 460 PC gun in IHMSA Field Pistol Class..

The 100yd targets are limited to 44Magnum power levels for that class.

We all know a 460S&W has a bit MORE power than Ole Elmer's favorite..

And l had previously learned the HARD way that ''MY 460'' does NOT like

the shorter 45 Colt rds fired in Her... So l had to come up with a custom

load with 44Magnum Power levels in the long 460 S&W case. Fortunately

there is published data out there that meets those requirements... That

kind of ammo virtually UNOBTANIUM... YOU have to load your OWN...
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 07-01-2017, 08:04 PM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,546
Likes: 2,213
Liked 7,150 Times in 3,183 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
Nice write up Chief. Only thing I would question is the "free" 45 Colt brass or 357 for that matter. I never see those laying around. But that said once you have some you are good to go.
Rule3,

I think that since Cowboy Action Shooting became so popular in the 90's (at least around my home town) many of us either purchased or resurrected our Lever Actions and Single Action Army Revolvers in .45 Colt. Years before I got involved with SASS Matches, I owned and shot a Marlin 1894CS and Colt SAA in .45 Colt. I also believe that the S&W M25 helped put that cartridge back on the map - so to speak. The S&W Governor, the Taurus Judge and similar wheel guns have also increased sales of the vulnerable .45 Colt cartridge. In any event....... I will not say the.45 Colt is anywhere near as popular as the 38 spl, ,45 acp, 9mm, .40 S&W, or .380 but I will say that other than purchasing 250 Nickel Plated cases (to look good at SASS Matches) I do not ever remember buying any and I have thousands of them. Even at the SASS matches you would not believe how many shooters did NOT re-load and just gave away their Brass.

So yes you are correct in saying the .45 Colt would presumably be a bit more difficult to find for free, but doable if persistent. The other calibers I mentioned above are all over my Club's Ranges and a piece of cake to find. We have several 30 gallon Steel pails just full of once fired Brass and occasionally we will dump one and take what we want. Some guys are nice enough to even put every cartridge back into the box inserts, reinsert them back into the box and throw into the pails.

Last edited by chief38; 07-01-2017 at 08:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-01-2017, 08:04 PM
hammer 1 hammer 1 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 78
Likes: 74
Liked 53 Times in 31 Posts
Default

I agree with it all, but, the revolver brass, but 100 pieces of brass, last a long time. I have been getting 357, and 41 mag Starline brass, at candles for 24 bucks for 41, and 21 for 357. Abuddy gave me 1200 chrome plated 38 special brass, that will last me forever
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-01-2017, 08:10 PM
Troystat Troystat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 983
Likes: 145
Liked 262 Times in 177 Posts
Default

Nice write up, I would say a good reloading outfit can be had for less than 1500 dollars unless you really need a progressive press. At my range they don't like you picking up brass that is not your own but I often get extra 45 acp brass when I am there, these days 38 special and 357 are very rare to find lying around though. Plenty of 40 and 9mm though.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-01-2017, 08:25 PM
muddocktor's Avatar
muddocktor muddocktor is online now
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 2,163
Likes: 3,669
Liked 2,547 Times in 1,045 Posts
Default

Nice write up chief38, except that I take issue with you calling a bullet a "bullet head". A bullet head to me is someone with a shaved, pointy crowned top of their head and not something installed on top of a cartridge case.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 07-01-2017, 08:50 PM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,546
Likes: 2,213
Liked 7,150 Times in 3,183 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
Nice write up chief38, except that I take issue with you calling a bullet a "bullet head". A bullet head to me is someone with a shaved, pointy crowned top of their head and not something installed on top of a cartridge case.
Semantics I guess..........

Back in the day of the Lone Ranger, they use to call the entire cartridge a bullet. Now people call the projectile the bullet. Some call the whole thing a bullet and designate the projectile as bullet head.

Now days when I refer to a drill (the part that actually does the hoile cutting) a drill bit, some guys freak out!

If that's the only critisizm here I can easily deal with that!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 07-01-2017, 08:59 PM
mtgianni mtgianni is online now
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW MT
Posts: 2,956
Likes: 1,119
Liked 1,323 Times in 764 Posts
Default

No freaking out just tell them the drill bit goes into the drill motor. Nice write up.
__________________
Front sight and squeeze
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 07-01-2017, 09:02 PM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,546
Likes: 2,213
Liked 7,150 Times in 3,183 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troystat View Post
Nice write up, I would say a good reloading outfit can be had for less than 1500 dollars unless you really need a progressive press. At my range they don't like you picking up brass that is not your own but I often get extra 45 acp brass when I am there, these days 38 special and 357 are very rare to find lying around though. Plenty of 40 and 9mm though.
I belong to three Ranges and none care what you take. Some days I simply can not believe what is in the Brass Buckets! Last month I found 500 pieces .223 NICKEL once fired in their original boxes! - too bad I don't have an AR.

One of my Clubs allow the Police and the Fed's to use our pistol Range for their competitions and they never have any problems finding enough of us to help sweep up all the empties.

Now days (at least for the most part) I don't look too hard anymore. I've got enough Brass to last me two lifetimes. If there are once fired complete boxes of calibers I shoot I'll grab a few boxes, but now I'll alert my shooting buddy's to help themselves.

I've gotten 3 guys into reloading over the last few years and so far NONE have bought one single case (with the exception of one guy who shoots .38 Super which IS hard to find). Even they are now saying they have plenty. We also help each other out, I shoot a LOT of Trap, Skeet and Sporting Clays and have no interest in reloading Shot Shells - I give them away. I can buy them so cheap I don't bother. On the other hand there are guys who shoot .45 acp, .357 Mag and 38 Spl. who offer them to me.

Last edited by chief38; 07-01-2017 at 09:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-01-2017, 09:03 PM
Alk8944's Avatar
Alk8944 Alk8944 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sandy Utah
Posts: 5,892
Likes: 536
Liked 3,313 Times in 1,584 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
Semantics I guess..........

Back in the day of the Lone Ranger, they use to call the entire cartridge a bullet. Now people call the projectile the bullet. Some call the whole thing a bullet and designate the projectile as bullet head.

Now days when I refer to a drill (the part that actually does the hoile cutting) a drill bit, some guys freak out!

If that's the only critisizm here I can easily deal with that!
No, not semantics, but a pretty good indicator that you are from New York or somewhere in New England, or the Chicago area. People from these areas are the only ones I have ever heard referring to bullet as a "bullet head" or just "head". Note: The cartridge "head" is on the back end, where the primer is.

Look it up in the dictionary, you will not find "head" ever defied as a bullet or projectile. Have you ever bought a box of Hornady, Speer, Sierra, etc, "projectiles" that were labelled as "heads"??? Bet you haven't. Or bought a bullet mold (or mould) labeled as a "head mold"? Again, bet you haven't!
__________________
Gunsmithing S&W since 1961
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 07-01-2017, 09:10 PM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,546
Likes: 2,213
Liked 7,150 Times in 3,183 Posts
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alk8944 View Post
No, not semantics, but a pretty good indicator that you are from New York or somewhere in New England, or the Chicago area. People from these areas are the only ones I have ever heard referring to bullet as a "bullet head" or just "head". Note: The cartridge "head" is on the back end, where the primer is.

Look it up in the dictionary, you will not find "head" ever defied as a bullet or projectile. Have you ever bought a box of Hornady, Speer, Sierra, etc, "projectiles" that were labelled as "heads"??? Bet you haven't. Or bought a bullet mold (or mould) labeled as a "head mold"? Again, bet you haven't!

I'll take your word for it. I've heard them called all of the above and have used different terms at different times myself. For some reason I am not a stickler on this one (I usually am a Ball Buster), but I am as adamant as you are when people call a Magazine a Clip. So therefore next time do a write up like this one I will refer back to your post.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-01-2017, 09:25 PM
g8rb8 g8rb8 is offline
SWCA Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 5,073
Liked 2,565 Times in 1,094 Posts
Default

Ditto - Nice write up.

I would add to the "sense" (reasons to reload):
-Being able to produce your own ammunition when availability is not so good. I remember times when various calibers I like to shoot were hard to come by.
-Sense of accomplishment. Reloading is not rocket science but I suspect most people enjoy making and using a product they made themselves, akin to home-made cookies versus store bought cookies.
__________________
Scoundrel & Ne'er-Do-Well Anon
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #14  
Old 07-01-2017, 10:11 PM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: North Texas
Posts: 568
Likes: 28
Liked 329 Times in 200 Posts
Default

Even considering that the equipment is fully amortized, there is still the value of your time.

I shoot jacketed bullets on almost all of my reloads and they are a little more expensive than cast lead bullets, so my cost per 50 round box of 38 Special comes out closer to $12.

If I add in the value of my time that box comes in closer to $90. So, unless you want to "sell" your reloading time for about the same hourly wage as a child chained to a sewing machine in a Bangladesh shirt factory, don't do it to "save" money.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 07-01-2017, 11:02 PM
muddocktor's Avatar
muddocktor muddocktor is online now
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 2,163
Likes: 3,669
Liked 2,547 Times in 1,045 Posts
Default

hdwit, you are buying the wrong bullets if it costs you $0.24 a round for 38 Special. Zero bullets sells 158 grain JHP bullets for $206.40 shipped for 2000 bullets. So you could load the 38 special for around $0.15-0.16 a round using their bullets. And the quality of their bullets seems to me to be as good as the big boys. And they happen to be in stock at Roze Distribution lately. That is their retail outlet.

As to the time thing, well I do not figure that in on my load cost. If I weren't reloading, I would probably be wasting time watching the stupid tube or farting around on the internet instead, so the time thing is immaterial. Plus, it is an enjoyable pass time for me to reload. And for pistol ammo, my time spent loading rounds isn't nearly as expensive in time as you evidently, since I load them on my old Dillon RL-450 and can crank out 300-400 rounds/hr after setting up my powder charge and bullet seating depth. That doesn't take me 15 minutes nowadays.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 07-01-2017, 11:10 PM
4barrel's Avatar
4barrel 4barrel is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: OVER the hill in TEJAS
Posts: 1,368
Likes: 7,414
Liked 2,030 Times in 841 Posts
Default

What ever it takes not to come in last I lost cost a long time ago.

Last edited by 4barrel; 07-03-2017 at 09:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-01-2017, 11:15 PM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is online now
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 21,728
Likes: 25,612
Liked 17,645 Times in 8,754 Posts
Default If you load......

If you load rifle bullets and magnum pistol bullets, you are WAY ahead of the game. Especially when circumstance can make those either expensive, scarce or non existent.

We've said on some threads already about the other benefits of reloading, such as tailoring your loads to exactly what you want. Where am I going to buy reduced load 30-06s???

Besides, I LIKE making my own stuff. It's very satisfying.

Simply put. If I didn't reload, I would still shoot. About one box of ammo a month.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 07-01-2017, 11:20 PM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,546
Likes: 2,213
Liked 7,150 Times in 3,183 Posts
Default

Some caliber are now relatively cheap such as 9mm and .45 acp but when you get into .45 Colt, .380 and certain rifle calibers like .38-55 and .45-70 they become quite expensive.

It's also not easy to find certain calibers on the shelves of stores. Rarely do stores (especially the larger ones) carry .45 Colt or 38-55 and if they do they usually only have one offering at that!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-01-2017, 11:44 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 4,418
Likes: 912
Liked 1,911 Times in 1,245 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
Nice write up Chief. Only thing I would question is the "free" 45 Colt brass or 357 for that matter. I never see those laying around. But that said once you have some you are good to go.
Free if you keep your brass from factory. Even if you buy it. Amortized over 20x reloaded, its less than a penny each.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-02-2017, 12:36 AM
reddog81 reddog81 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: IA
Posts: 686
Likes: 138
Liked 496 Times in 273 Posts
Default

You should be able to get up and reloading with a nice progressive setup for close to $750. In years of visiting outdoor and indoor ranges I've found less than half a dozen 45 Colt cases and maybe a box or 2 of 38 special brass. However you can buy brass for relatively cheap. I just bought 200 pieces of Hornady brass for $50.

If you really want to start "saving" money you need to cast your own bullets. With my own cast bullets I can reload a reduced power .30-06 load for under $.10 vs. 1.00+ for a factory round.

Of course everyone knows you don't save a penny, but just end up shooting more. Also tailoring loads for specific purposes is a nice benefit.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-02-2017, 12:47 AM
RobertJ. RobertJ. is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seaside, Oregon
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 2,380
Liked 3,644 Times in 1,259 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdwhit View Post
Even considering that the equipment is fully amortized, there is still the value of your time.
Unless you enjoy it, in which case it's a hobby!

Do you spend time in front of the TV? How much is that worth?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 07-02-2017, 12:52 AM
JimBianchi's Avatar
JimBianchi JimBianchi is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 74
Likes: 16
Liked 106 Times in 34 Posts
Default

I've been reloading for about 3 years and have more than paid for my investment in equipment.

That being said, I can make 160grn 38SP bunny-fart loads that are incredibly accurate all day long, and then I shoot more than ever before. This type of round is nearly impossible to buy commercially in 38SP.

So I did pay for the equipment, I do shoot a lot more, and I'm a better shooter for it.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-02-2017, 01:03 AM
nachogrande nachogrande is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Gods waiting room
Posts: 774
Likes: 540
Liked 674 Times in 332 Posts
Default HARD TO PUT A PRICE ON.

The pride of making your own for YOUR specific firearm & the peace of mind knowing you won't run out or go thru the hassle of running from store to store to be gouged & a limit imposed, NO THANKS. Now if I could just load rimfires I'd be set. Just today I told a clerk "you keep them", 15$ for 100 CCI short CB caps, the squirrels in my garden were happy.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-02-2017, 01:44 AM
Dr.Lou's Avatar
Dr.Lou Dr.Lou is online now
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,458
Likes: 1,931
Liked 1,857 Times in 741 Posts
Default

I simply like reloading because it gives me a sense of accomplishment and it's an activity I enjoy - I load one shell at a time with my Rockchucker and 505 scale. Don't know if it's cheaper because I've never done the math. Don't care...
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #25  
Old 07-02-2017, 01:47 AM
Troystat Troystat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 983
Likes: 145
Liked 262 Times in 177 Posts
Default

Hey Chief38 the person in charge of my local range tells me the reason they have the posted rule about only taking your own brass is because in CA it is considered hazardous waste, he also said they sell some of it to commercial reloaders but they can't just sell it as scrap but can sell it as scrap that is hazardous waste. Don't know if this is bs but they are the only local outdoor range and if selling the used brass keeps them open that is ok with me.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-02-2017, 03:02 AM
Duckford Duckford is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 298
Likes: 347
Liked 418 Times in 147 Posts
Default

With all this talk of $90 a box with labor factored in, I took some time to crunch a few of my own numbers....

38 Special Target Load:
Material costs
Case: free
Bullet: ? cents, home made lube, electric and propane for lead for lead recycling at home, free to minimal
Powder: 2.8 grains Bullseye, .9 cents per round
Primer: 3 cents per round
Material : 3.9-? cents per round

Total labor estimate:
4 Hours work for 80 pounds of clean ingots from scrap collected from my rubber traps and remelted, $1 per 5600 grains or $1.25 a pound at $25 an hour

5600 grains / 170 grain Keith = 33 bullets per dollar, basically 3 cents per bullet

3.5 hours of casting, including setup, warm up, clean up, sorting average 1,300 bullets or 372 high grade bullets per hour, 6.7 cents per bullet at $25 an hour

One hour to size and lubricate 600 bullets, 4.1 cents per bullet

150 rounds loaded per hour in careful fashion, 16.6 cents per total loaded round

Total theoretical labor cost per total loaded round 30.4 cents
Total material plus theoretical labor 34.3 cents per round
50 round box at material cost is around $2
50 round box at material cost plus theoretical labor $17.15

If I was still on the old single stage that i still love, that would drive up the theoretical labor cost higher, and whatever wage you want to calculate will change it too, but even with $50 an hour and a 50 rounds per hour on a single stage would still be hard to come out at over $50 a box. Keep in mind some young shooters make closer to 12.50 an hour in their real jobs, and some progressive reloaders will easily outpace my careful pace. Many people take more time and make far more per hour than I, but I think a general idea of what labor included can be, at least, ballparked.

As with subjectivity, I'm sure if you are a heat surgeon and you moonlight at a gas station, your story about how much you make as a doctor will lead to the gas station awarding you a wage based on your skilled labor salary and not on the wage that is at the level of the job and what the employer can afford to pay. This line of logic can distort our perception of value and trying to put monetary value to our productive time we use to be productive to ourselves, when in truth all the numbers are kinda just made up.

As for me, I try to mandate myself to firing at least 2,600 rounds out o my M27 every year, so $104 of actual monetary cost to me is a fine, and very real, number, and I'll stick with that.

Last edited by Duckford; 07-02-2017 at 03:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-02-2017, 08:49 AM
hammer 1 hammer 1 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 78
Likes: 74
Liked 53 Times in 31 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulWVa View Post
I think you mean Nickel plated.
sorry, thank you, yes, nickel brass, brain fart
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-02-2017, 09:10 AM
smokindog's Avatar
smokindog smokindog is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: The Great State of Texas
Posts: 1,834
Likes: 2,053
Liked 1,343 Times in 699 Posts
Default

Nice piece!

Only thing I'll add is piece of mind. Supply is always one election away from disruption. I don't shoot near as much as most of you and I don't do competitions, I just enjoy plinking.

The last dry spell got me into reloading (Sandy Hook) and I've probably got enough supplies to last me the remainder of my shooting days (61 in a couple weeks). Yes, that means I bought some primers at 4+ cents but the powder I bought will never be cheaper and everything is stored properly.

I also bought a significant amount of factory ammo to use with new firearms, feed the brass supply, and keep on the shelf. If I'm out and about and see a good deal, I still will buy some.

I spent more than the $1500 mentioned for equipment BUT the $1500 budget is a great number IMO.

The point is I now HAVE IT and no election will change that. Also, since we're newly retired, it's a cost I don't have to worry about in the budget. Health care is already costing me a new firearm per month (come on 65)!

I enjoy going up to my reloading room and disappearing from the world for a few hours! THAT alone is worth the entry fee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
This is not the first time I have discussed this subject but since it does seem to come up from time to time I figured I'd post this again. The costs below are from what I have personally purchased in the recent past.

Let's say one is going to buy a Reloading Outfit to load .38 Special, .45 acp and .45 Colt. I am NOT including the cost of the Brass because IMHO there is no reason to buy it! Almost any Range is laden with once fired Brass in these popular calibers and it is there for the taking. My Club Ranges are so heavily littered with perfectly serviceable Brass I always tell new guys getting into reloading NOT to buy the cases. I would have a hard time believing your local Ranges are any different. I have given out thousands and thousands of Brass to new Re-loaders just to get them started. OK - so let's say the Brass is free.

Bullet heads for target shooting that I use are lead. I pay 0.089 cents for a 230 grain .45 acp bullet, 0.065 cents for a 158 grain RNL bullet and 0.100 cents for a .45 Colt 255 RNFP bullet all from Dardas Cast Bullets which I think are very good quality.

I use Titegroup for .38 Spl and .357 Mag, W231 for .45 acp and Unique for .45 Colt. Since all of those powders all cost about $20 / lb (I buy 8 pound cans).

Primers are selling for about $28 - $30 bucks per 1000 so that comes to about 0.030 each.

OK - now the math......

.38 special

cartridge Case.......... FREE
Bullet ..................... 6.5 cents
Powder.................... 1.0 cent
Primer..................... 3.0 cents

TOTAL..................... 10.5 cents / rnd x 50 = $5.50 /box of 50


.45 acp

Cartridge Case........... FREE
Bullet........................ 9 cents
Powder...................... 1.3 cents
Primer....................... 3.0 cents

TOTAL....................... 13.3 cents / rnd x 50 = $6.65/box of 50


.45 Colt

Cartridge Case .......... FREE
Bullet....................... 10 cents
Powder..................... 2.3 cents
Primer...................... 3 cents

TOTAL....................... 15.3 cents each x 50 = $7.65/box of 50

There are 7000 grains of powder in a pound so you can divide how many grains of powder you are using into 7000 and come up with cost per round based on your price per pound.

A GOOD reloading outfit can certainly be purchased for $1500.00 or so. If you save $15 per box over name brand Factory ammo (average of course - some more some less) and you take the $1500 equipment cost and divide it by the savings per box ( 1500 / 15 = 100 boxes of ammo) you will break even and pay for all your equipment after 100 boxes or 5,000 rounds.

While I don't know how long it would take you guys to shoot 5,000 rounds I know I go through that in about 6 months. So that is my perspective on just how fast reloading equipment and components will pay for themselves. Slightly longer if you buy super premium equipment and slightly less if you buy budget stuff. I suppose it also depends on what bullets you shoot but for Target shooting I have no problem using lead cast bullets.

OTHER THAN DOLLARS AND CENTS NOW:

Many guys like myself are serious target shooters and like shooting very accurate and slightly lighter recoiling bullets. I load my target ammo to respectable velocities but not up to defensive ammo velocities. So you can custom tune your own loads to your personal needs.

Many guys find reloading relaxing and enjoyable (I am not really one of them and usually load in bulk - then cover the press again). That's a personal opinion of course.

Once components are procured you never loose the ability to roll your own no matter what the political climate is. Since components last virtually forever if stored properly, you can but in bulk when one of the larger suppliers runs a sale and offers free shipping and NO Haz-Mat fees.

So there is my take on re-loading for those of you who are thinking about taking the plunge!

Regards,
Chief38
__________________
Really? U saw it in Wikipedia?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-02-2017, 12:42 PM
Thomas15 Thomas15 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: NE PA
Posts: 217
Likes: 60
Liked 126 Times in 77 Posts
Default

When the subject comes up where an individual asks the question re: "how much money does it cost to buy reloading stuff?" I always answer that on a basic level a minimum of $500.00 is needed. Less is possible and more is certainly easy to accomplish. But when it's all said and done when the handloader who produces more than 50 rounds per year looks at what he has sitting on his bench (including the actual bench), $1500.00 is probably a better, more accurate number.

I don't know why it is that we (established handloaders) try so hard to justify our hobby to those interested in taking it up, or why we low ball the reality of the true cost of joining the ranks of handloaderdom. Since this is a handgun forum it can be assumed that the potential new handloader will need or want to crank out 100s if not 1000s of rounds per month and unless you have unlimited time and enjoy sitting/standing at a bench for umteen hours per week, then the only other option is to place a progressive press on your bench.

This is going to cost some bux and I think a newb is better served knowing this up front before they hit the buy button for a single stage turret press that they will grow out of in a few months. This is not intended to be an insult to those who have ample amounts of pistol ammo produced on a turret press. But most of us who have a spouse and kids and a full time job and a mortgage do not have the time and energy required to go that route. It is an option for cost considerations but not in my opinion the best option.

As far as per round costs go even in 9mm where factory is relatively inexpensive it is easy to handload ammo for almost half the cost of factory even if you are not casting your own bullets. If someone shoots 1000 rounds of 9mm per month, it will take only 12.5 months for him to break even on a $1500.00 bench investment. And he will have better ammo for all his trouble. And that's 9mm. 38 or 45ACP will enjoy a faster return on investment.

So personally I think that instead of encouraging potential handloaders into buying this or that kit for a couple hundred dollars I think we do the community a better service by pointing out the reality of the thing, handloading, like just about anything related to firearms, is not inexpensive.

If your struggling to put food on the table and paying the electric bill then high volume recreational shooting is probably not in your best interests and you might be better served plinking 100 rounds worth per year on what ever firearm you currently have. I know that for years, literally, I put off handloading and shooting more than once or twice a year because our financial priorities were elsewhere.

Now that the kids are adults we have the time and money but still I couldn't shoot the volume I do now using factory ammo. The negative in my particular case is that my kids are used to Dad providing unlimited ammo and I cannot get my son interested in ammo self-sufficiency.

This is a very good thread with lots of good insights.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #30  
Old 07-02-2017, 12:44 PM
292's Avatar
292 292 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Northeastern NC
Posts: 57
Likes: 38
Liked 83 Times in 28 Posts
Default

Great write up. Great thread. I reload with a Lee breech lock press. I also cast using wheel weights, free from the auto shop I do business with. The cost savings gets recycled into more guns and more shooting. As for the labor cost I'd ALMOST rather pay more to get to do something myself. The fun for me is working up accurate loads using different combinations of components.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #31  
Old 07-02-2017, 01:15 PM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,546
Likes: 2,213
Liked 7,150 Times in 3,183 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troystat View Post
Hey Chief38 the person in charge of my local range tells me the reason they have the posted rule about only taking your own brass is because in CA it is considered hazardous waste, he also said they sell some of it to commercial reloaders but they can't just sell it as scrap but can sell it as scrap that is hazardous waste. Don't know if this is bs but they are the only local outdoor range and if selling the used brass keeps them open that is ok with me.
California's Rules and laws are way different than almost every other State and since I do not live there I am not that familiar with them. That said, I know many PUBLIC Ranges frown upon and some down right forbid guys from taking any Brass with the exception of their own. The main reason for this (in my opinion) is because they collect and sell that Brass for a profit.

Last edited by chief38; 07-02-2017 at 02:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #32  
Old 07-02-2017, 03:11 PM
Alk8944's Avatar
Alk8944 Alk8944 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sandy Utah
Posts: 5,892
Likes: 536
Liked 3,313 Times in 1,584 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdwhit View Post
Even considering that the equipment is fully amortized, there is still the value of your time.

I shoot jacketed bullets on almost all of my reloads and they are a little more expensive than cast lead bullets, so my cost per 50 round box of 38 Special comes out closer to $12.

If I add in the value of my time that box comes in closer to $90. So, unless you want to "sell" your reloading time for about the same hourly wage as a child chained to a sewing machine in a Bangladesh shirt factory, don't do it to "save" money.
And how did you arrive at a value of your time? If you are at home, at night or over the weekend, what would you be doing if you were not watching TV, reading, going shooting, re-loading or other "Leisure time activity"? Face it, you wouldn't be doing anything to make money! This is the most specious of all arguments against hand-loading that there is! It only has value if the only choices are making money or re-loading and we all, including you, know this is not true.

Fine, if you consider re-loading as drudgery, and you can afford it, buy all the ammunition you want. Saving money is not the only reason for any leisure activity.

If you hunt strictly for the meat then this is a reasonable argument, or fish strictly for the fish you catch. How much an hour do you make while golfing, bowling, watching TV, etc?
__________________
Gunsmithing S&W since 1961
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #33  
Old 07-02-2017, 03:50 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 30min SE Montreal
Posts: 876
Likes: 133
Liked 545 Times in 320 Posts
Default

One of my friend sold all his guns and reloading equipment 6 or 7 years ago.The bug bit back and he started shooting again;decided to wait to buy reloading equipment.He then bought a beautiful Winchester 1886 replica in 45-70.He showed up at the range with his gun and a few boxes of 45-70;at over a buck a pop,he concluded that he'll save his brass and start reloading ASAP!
To add insult,I gave him a box of my cast bullet reloads...and they outgroupped his expensive commercial jacketed bullets.Spoke to him yesterday and he is now up to decide which Dillon press he'll buy.Great!Another one into our gang!
Qc
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-02-2017, 04:05 PM
hammer 1 hammer 1 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 78
Likes: 74
Liked 53 Times in 31 Posts
Default

A few years ago, I was enamored by the new Uberti 1876 centennial rifles. 4060, 4560, and 5095 Winchester, are not on every shelf. My pair of 338 lapua'swould gather cobwebs without reloading.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #35  
Old 07-02-2017, 06:18 PM
VNK971 VNK971 is offline
SWCA Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 86
Likes: 106
Liked 218 Times in 38 Posts
Default

Back in the 70s when I was a police officer I could buy practice reloads quite inexpensively. I tried reloading, but never really got in to it. Now I'm retired and got back into shooting a couple of years ago. I shoot 38 spec mainly, with some 9mm and even less 45 ACP. I have the time to reload the types of target loads for my 38s that I want, and I probably couldn't find them commercially. I try to go to the range at least once a week. I don't care about the cost and I enjoy reloading. I consider it just as much a part of the hobby as going to the range to shoot. I let people know I reload and will help them if asked, but I don't encourage, or discourage, anyone.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #36  
Old 07-02-2017, 07:01 PM
brucev brucev is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND "SENSE" OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Peach State! GA!!!
Posts: 4,227
Likes: 4,327
Liked 2,548 Times in 1,128 Posts
Default

Back when I was a newly married seminary student, I got my hands on a S&W 19-2. Not to long later ... I got a RCBS Reloader Special and started cranking out .38 Special ammo! I was in heaven! I could shoot my revolver at a price I could afford! Now it is over 30 years later. I reload because the cost savings are significant. I reload because I can load the ammo I want to shoot and not just shoot the ammo a local store or online source wants to stock and sell. I can shoot various loads that simply are not available at any price from any source. For me that's the dollars and sense of the whole matter. Sincerely. bruce.
__________________
<><
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #37  
Old 07-03-2017, 03:57 AM
Fishslayer's Avatar
Fishslayer Fishslayer is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego, PRK
Posts: 7,534
Likes: 7,449
Liked 8,041 Times in 2,797 Posts
Default



__________________
you can keep your gun. Period.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #38  
Old 07-03-2017, 09:05 AM
WVSig's Avatar
WVSig WVSig is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 291
Liked 1,462 Times in 540 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
hdwit, you are buying the wrong bullets if it costs you $0.24 a round for 38 Special. Zero bullets sells 158 grain JHP bullets for $206.40 shipped for 2000 bullets. So you could load the 38 special for around $0.15-0.16 a round using their bullets. And the quality of their bullets seems to me to be as good as the big boys. And they happen to be in stock at Roze Distribution lately. That is their retail outlet.

As to the time thing, well I do not figure that in on my load cost. If I weren't reloading, I would probably be wasting time watching the stupid tube or farting around on the internet instead, so the time thing is immaterial. Plus, it is an enjoyable pass time for me to reload. And for pistol ammo, my time spent loading rounds isn't nearly as expensive in time as you evidently, since I load them on my old Dillon RL-450 and can crank out 300-400 rounds/hr after setting up my powder charge and bullet seating depth. That doesn't take me 15 minutes nowadays.
Every single time this topic comes up the issue of time and the value of ones time or labor comes up. Everyone who argues that reloading saves them money never account for the "cost" or value of their time. They always call it a hobby and therefore there is no $$$$ value to their time. The TV analogy also always makes an appearance.

The problem is that the cost comparison offered by the "save $$$" camp is a false comparison. You are comparing the cost of a factory made bullet which certainly has the cost of labor built into it to a reloaded round with no accounting for labor. It is not an apples to apples comparison. Those who call it a hobby have very right to do so but you cannot compare the "the true cost" of reloading without some cost for labor because what you are comparing it to certainly had to take labor into account when pricing it.

I am not saying not to reload but as a purely economic argument this is a false narrative. It is a poor argument that only stands because you have taken out a huge chuck of the cost to manufacture the ammo out of the equation. Calling your labor or time worthless does not validate the comparison. I really wish people would stop doing it. I reload some ammo but I get ZERO joy from it. What I do get is better more consistent ammo that shoots well in my guns. It don't put a $$ figure on my labor but I do pretend it is free. I also will tell everyone who asks me do I save money reloading that yes but only if I do not put a value my time. For me reloading is work and I do not work for free.
__________________
Use should dictate gear!

Last edited by WVSig; 07-03-2017 at 09:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-03-2017, 09:18 AM
Mehutch's Avatar
Mehutch Mehutch is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Seattle Washington
Posts: 373
Likes: 1,774
Liked 1,083 Times in 260 Posts
Default

Reloading... its fun, its therapeutic, its cheaper, and it is good for Global Warming problem. Reload - shoot - eat your sandwich... repeat.



Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #40  
Old 07-03-2017, 09:41 AM
WVSig's Avatar
WVSig WVSig is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 291
Liked 1,462 Times in 540 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
This is not the first time I have discussed this subject but since it does seem to come up from time to time I figured I'd post this again. The costs below are from what I have personally purchased in the recent past.

Let's say one is going to buy a Reloading Outfit to load .38 Special, .45 acp and .45 Colt. I am NOT including the cost of the Brass because IMHO there is no reason to buy it! Almost any Range is laden with once fired Brass in these popular calibers and it is there for the taking. My Club Ranges are so heavily littered with perfectly serviceable Brass I always tell new guys getting into reloading NOT to buy the cases. I would have a hard time believing your local Ranges are any different. I have given out thousands and thousands of Brass to new Re-loaders just to get them started. OK - so let's say the Brass is free.

Bullet heads for target shooting that I use are lead. I pay 0.089 cents for a 230 grain .45 acp bullet, 0.065 cents for a 158 grain RNL bullet and 0.100 cents for a .45 Colt 255 RNFP bullet all from Dardas Cast Bullets which I think are very good quality.

I use Titegroup for .38 Spl and .357 Mag, W231 for .45 acp and Unique for .45 Colt. Since all of those powders all cost about $20 / lb (I buy 8 pound cans).

Primers are selling for about $28 - $30 bucks per 1000 so that comes to about 0.030 each.

OK - now the math......

.38 special

cartridge Case.......... FREE
Bullet ..................... 6.5 cents
Powder.................... 1.0 cent
Primer..................... 3.0 cents

TOTAL..................... 10.5 cents / rnd x 50 = $5.50 /box of 50


.45 acp

Cartridge Case........... FREE
Bullet........................ 9 cents
Powder...................... 1.3 cents
Primer....................... 3.0 cents

TOTAL....................... 13.3 cents / rnd x 50 = $6.65/box of 50


.45 Colt

Cartridge Case .......... FREE
Bullet....................... 10 cents
Powder..................... 2.3 cents
Primer...................... 3 cents

TOTAL....................... 15.3 cents each x 50 = $7.65/box of 50

There are 7000 grains of powder in a pound so you can divide how many grains of powder you are using into 7000 and come up with cost per round based on your price per pound.

A GOOD reloading outfit can certainly be purchased for $1500.00 or so. If you save $15 per box over name brand Factory ammo (average of course - some more some less) and you take the $1500 equipment cost and divide it by the savings per box ( 1500 / 15 = 100 boxes of ammo) you will break even and pay for all your equipment after 100 boxes or 5,000 rounds.

While I don't know how long it would take you guys to shoot 5,000 rounds I know I go through that in about 6 months. So that is my perspective on just how fast reloading equipment and components will pay for themselves. Slightly longer if you buy super premium equipment and slightly less if you buy budget stuff. I suppose it also depends on what bullets you shoot but for Target shooting I have no problem using lead cast bullets.

OTHER THAN DOLLARS AND CENTS NOW:

Many guys like myself are serious target shooters and like shooting very accurate and slightly lighter recoiling bullets. I load my target ammo to respectable velocities but not up to defensive ammo velocities. So you can custom tune your own loads to your personal needs.

Many guys find reloading relaxing and enjoyable (I am not really one of them and usually load in bulk - then cover the press again). That's a personal opinion of course.

Once components are procured you never loose the ability to roll your own no matter what the political climate is. Since components last virtually forever if stored properly, you can but in bulk when one of the larger suppliers runs a sale and offers free shipping and NO Haz-Mat fees.

So there is my take on re-loading for those of you who are thinking about taking the plunge!

Regards,
Chief38
You are greatly over estimating the cost of factory ammo. I can find quality 45 ACP factory fresh not reloaded for well under $20.50 a box which is what it would have to cost if I am saving $15 a box and it costs me $5.50 to make.

1000 round case - 45 Auto 230 grain FMJ Sellier Bellot Brass Case Ammo - SB45A | SGAmmo.com

$.258 a piece = 12.90 a box delivered for 45 ACP and that took 10 seconds to find.

38 special costs about $.277 a piece shipped so $13.85 a box.

Prvi Partizan - 38 Special, 500 Rds, 158 Grain LRN Ammunition | SGAmmo

Numbers are closer on the 45 Colt.

I will also say that you can reduce the cost of your reloading components but I think my point still stands. Your factory ammo prices are not accurate which skews all your numbers to suit your initial premise. Again not saying to not reload ammo I reload 2 of the 3 calibers you site but if you want to make a complelling argument you need to have accurate info and pricing.
__________________
Use should dictate gear!

Last edited by WVSig; 07-03-2017 at 09:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 07-03-2017, 11:10 AM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,546
Likes: 2,213
Liked 7,150 Times in 3,183 Posts
Default

For one, I am unable to find .45 Colt 255 grain RNFP for under $40 bucks a box OF 50. (many are sold in boxes of 20). Second, I own genuine Colt SAA revolvers that are on the older side and like to keep my "Cowboy Loads" lighter so they last as long as possible. No need to stress out old guns to put holes in paper with the amount I do shoot them.

I am unaware of any Factory loaded ammo for the .45acp with 230 grain RNL "LEAD hardball" at any price. The two indoor Clubs I belong to will not allow the use of jacketed ammo so if I want to shoot them indoors I HAVE TO re-load. I will NOT shoot others reloads. While outdoors I can shoot anything, I do not want to load two different types of ammo (Jacketed and lead).

When I used the number of $15 per box savings that was an AVERAGE PRICE. Yes you can get sale priced ammo in bulk, but it may be 130 grain or in a configuration you simply don't want. I like shooting the same exact ammo every time out of a designated gun - as I am into as much accuracy as I am capable of.

The examples and math I posted are from what is trending on the national websites and in my LGS's. If you can buy a specific load in bulk cheaper - great. The numbers I posted are real for me and most here, but if you just are not into re-loading I can understand that as well. I also reload 45-70 and 38-55 Rifle which are not only ridiculously expensive, most LGS don't even carry it! Add that into the mix above and reloading saves even more than I posted.

Reloading is NOT for everyone - I get that. There are some who would not reload even if they were GIVEN a brand new Outfit and free components. For those of us who shoot very often and are interested in a consistent ammo supply and in making that ammo as accurate and consistent as possible, reloading makes sense - assuming you have the time & desire to do so. I'm a Serious Target Shooter and like to know exactly where each one of my firearms hits and like the consistency. Hey, it works for me. .

The reason for this post was because there are MANY who are interested in getting into re-loading and I tried to be as realistic as possible. One can always pick apart a post for this or that, but in general I stand by my numbers and facts and think it's pretty accurate. YMMV.

Last edited by chief38; 07-03-2017 at 11:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-03-2017, 11:29 AM
WVSig's Avatar
WVSig WVSig is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 291
Liked 1,462 Times in 540 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
For one, I am unable to find .45 Colt 255 grain RNFP for under $40 bucks a box OF 50. (many are sold in boxes of 20). Second, I own genuine Colt SAA revolvers that are on the older side and like to keep my "Cowboy Loads" lighter so they last as long as possible. No need to stress out old guns to put holes in paper with the amount I do shoot them.

I am unaware of any Factory loaded ammo for the .45acp with 230 grain RNL "LEAD hardball" at any price. The two indoor Clubs I belong to will not allow the use of jacketed ammo so if I want to shoot them indoors I HAVE TO re-load. I will NOT shoot others reloads. While outdoors I can shoot anything, I do not want to load two different types of ammo (Jacketed and lead).

When I used the number of $15 per box savings that was an AVERAGE PRICE. Yes you can get sale priced ammo in bulk, but it may be 130 grain or in a configuration you simply don't want. I like shooting the same exact ammo every time out of a designated gun - as I am into as much accuracy as I am capable of.

The examples and math I posted are from what is trending on the national websites and in my LGS's. If yo can but a specific load in bulk cheaper - great. The numbers I posted are real for me and most here, but if you just are not into re-loading I can understand that as well. I also reload 45-70 and 38-55 Rifle which are not only ridiculously expensive, most LGS don;t even carry it! Add that into the mix above and reloading saves even more than I posted.

Reloading is NOT for everyone - I get that. There are some who would not reload even if they were GIVEN a brand new Outfit and free components. For those of us who shoot very often and are interested in a consistent ammo supply and in making that ammo as accurate and consistent as possible, reloading makes sense - assuming you have the time & desire to do so. I'm a Serious Target Shooter and like to know exactly where each one of my forearms hits and like the consistency. Hey, it works for me.
See now the argument is changing. Reloading makes sense for your very specific needs which are far from universal yet you proesented the case for the dollars and cents of reloading as if they were. If you are paying $20 a box for 45 ACP you are getting ripped off. You can do better than that at any big box retailer. You will be shooting 230gr but I would be willing to bet 95% of 45 ACP Shooter's are shooting 230gr loads.

Again the same tread continues when it comes to these arguments for cost savings from reloading. If you have very specific needs or requirements from your ammo or you shoot less mainstream calibers reloading makes sense on many levels but as a gerneral rule people are not going to see the savings you are claiming. That is not even taking into account the cost of labor. It will take the bag shooter a lot more than 100 boxes of ammo you calculated to recoup $1500 in reloading equipment.

Again I am not saying not to reload but what I am trying to point out is the circular reasoning used to "prove" that it saves money is not logically sound. You are cherry picking data to prove your predetermined conclusion which does not hold up to objective scrutiny.

I agree 100% that reloading makes a lot of sense for you and I hope you continue to do it and enjoy it but I guess I just don't agree that it yields universal savings when you consider time and the fact not everyone has the same ammo requirements you have.

I believe your analysis fits your individual needs and requirements but it fails as the universal truth you present it as.
__________________
Use should dictate gear!

Last edited by WVSig; 07-03-2017 at 11:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-03-2017, 11:56 AM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,546
Likes: 2,213
Liked 7,150 Times in 3,183 Posts
Default

OK, I guess we look at Reloading from two different points of view - to each his own, so I guess each prospective re-loader will have to decide what's best for them. My intent was in putting the numbers out there as MANY don't understand how to figure it out (initially) or what components cost in the first place.

Yes, you are correct in the fact that I am NOT including labor/time. I would not include labor/time here or with any hobby as it is one of the reasons we choose such hobbies in the first place. If I placed labor and time on how long it takes me to detail my vehicles, I'd never wash and wax them myself - but it's great exercise and gives me a great sense of pride and satisfaction to do so. Plus I do a MUCH better job
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #44  
Old 07-03-2017, 12:21 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 17,879
Likes: 7,368
Liked 8,704 Times in 4,200 Posts
Default

I told my Wife that she should get a Dillion 1400 or Binford 4500 needle pointing machine.
She could save so much time and finish her crafts in minutes.!!

All that "wasted time" she spent just sitting there stitching away!

Next it should be spray paint instead of those little brushes!
__________________
SENT FROM MY WIRED DIAL PHONE
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-03-2017, 12:55 PM
TomkinsSP's Avatar
TomkinsSP TomkinsSP is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: E of America's Great Lake
Posts: 301
Likes: 39
Liked 237 Times in 109 Posts
Default

Nobody asked, so I thought I would chime in...

I figure buying GOOD quality equipment is like buying a house in a good neighborhood, its not going to depreciate in value. My brass in 38 special lasts until I accidentally crush it being the first round after having forgotten to reset something, with normal loads it should last... forever.

So I figure my cost of making ammo is projectile+powder+primer, less than 10 cents a unit for .38 special. ($5.00 box of 50).

I can buy good commercial lhbwc or lswc for $21.00/box when in stock (and sometimes subject to a two or three box limit).

Considering the time I spend making ammo and that $16.00 differential I am 'paying myself' almost $60.00 an hour to make ammo.

And I could load 2.7 for gun A, 2.8 for gun B, 2.9 for gun C if I wanted to with a minimum amount of time to adjust the hopper. I can use any bullet I can find, or any powder in any combination.

And if I was just starting out and money was a concern, the SLGS (semi-local gun store, nothing is close to here) has a Lee hand press for $60.00, starline brass for $18.00/100, Lee .38 dies for $35.00, a ultrasonic cleaner for $15.00, solution for $5.00, 100 bullets for $9.50 (500 for $40) W231 or Bullseye for $22.00, S&B primers $23.00 for 1000, forgot to price a tray- lets say $5.00. So $175 for the first 100, $225 for 500, $ 385 for 1000... Already below $21.00 per box on that first thousand, you have the press, dies, cleaner, lots of powder and solution...
__________________
Its better without the...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #46  
Old 07-03-2017, 01:33 PM
Duckford Duckford is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 298
Likes: 347
Liked 418 Times in 147 Posts
Default

The thing is, all real things are valuable, but not always interchangeable. If you buy a $2 sack of potatoes and try to sell them someone else, you may not even find a buyer at all. Stand outside with a "Will work for cash" sign or look for a part time job, and maybe nobody will hire, maybe there is a limit to your income, maybe you can't always turn time into money, and maybe money can't buy everything. Run over the curb and crush somebody's flower pot, and they claim "That was a $100 pot and flower" and how do they come up with this, cash replacement value, original cash cost value, original cash cost value plus theoretical inflation, or someone trying to convert subjective emotional damage into cash value?

The main point is working for yourself for free doesn't actually cost you a half penny, and if it saved you ANY amount of cash that you would have paid someone else, it literally means you saved money and there is no other way to literally take it any other way. Even if the savings are meager, even if you worked for a theoretical wage that is in par with 3rd world shoe makers, you can't say you lost money, you still saved money, and to say otherwise is to ignore the objective reality before us. Even if i dick around changing oil for 2 hours at a non serious pace to avoid paying the local shop $20 for the same job, and I "paid" myself $10 an hour, unless I lost a paying job with wages superior to this, it is literally impossible to claim my oil change is more expensive when one cost money and the other was free.

Its not flawed logic, its logical fallacy. Working for free for yourself is free, its a cost of time, not of money, so there is no way even logically possible to argue that it doesn't pay money. You exchanged your time to save money, it can't cost you money.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #47  
Old 07-03-2017, 02:44 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 17,879
Likes: 7,368
Liked 8,704 Times in 4,200 Posts
Default

Don't forget they want the Min Wage to be $15/hr now!!

So we must at least amortize that into our cost accounting.

Hows that for the stupidest concept? . Why not just make it $20/hr??
__________________
SENT FROM MY WIRED DIAL PHONE
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #48  
Old 07-03-2017, 02:54 PM
mikld's Avatar
mikld mikld is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: S. Orygun
Posts: 1,176
Likes: 702
Liked 536 Times in 350 Posts
Default

Costs of reloading is the last/least important factor in my reloading. I figger it's my hobby (how many people ask a musician, not professional, how much their piano costs, or a fisherman to compare the costs of his equipment vs. the cost of fish from the market?). I'm not rich, but I don't count pennies for my hobbies. If I were to count costs for reloading I would have to count shipping fees for components bought on line, I'd have to figger costs of powder purchased in 1990, or the actual costs of primers I bought on sale in 2002. Then to be accurate I'd have to figger utilities into the costs too (power for lighting, heat, CD use. Water for quenching, clean up, bottled tea for thirst quenching in a warm shop while reloading). Then there is counting times to the LGS and figgering costs of my vehicle (gas, wear and tear) and compare the times I went to the store for reloading components and the times I might go to the store for factory ammo.

Or I could just sit on my stool in front of my Co-Ax and enjoy...

Last edited by mikld; 07-03-2017 at 02:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #49  
Old 07-03-2017, 04:34 PM
WVSig's Avatar
WVSig WVSig is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 291
Liked 1,462 Times in 540 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikld View Post
Costs of reloading is the last/least important factor in my reloading. I figger it's my hobby (how many people ask a musician, not professional, how much their piano costs, or a fisherman to compare the costs of his equipment vs. the cost of fish from the market?). I'm not rich, but I don't count pennies for my hobbies. If I were to count costs for reloading I would have to count shipping fees for components bought on line, I'd have to figger costs of powder purchased in 1990, or the actual costs of primers I bought on sale in 2002. Then to be accurate I'd have to figger utilities into the costs too (power for lighting, heat, CD use. Water for quenching, clean up, bottled tea for thirst quenching in a warm shop while reloading). Then there is counting times to the LGS and figgering costs of my vehicle (gas, wear and tear) and compare the times I went to the store for reloading components and the times I might go to the store for factory ammo.

Or I could just sit on my stool in front of my Co-Ax and enjoy...
Exactly I much prefer this to the false narrative that reloading saves everyone who does it money. I know just as many people who bought equipment hated it and sold it's a loss or never use it as people who love reloading.

If you look at it as a hobby it makes much more sense to me. I don't know about anyone else but I lose $$$ on all my hobbies. LOL

The other part that is missing from the false narrative is that most people who shoot regularly have a budget to spend on their hobby. X $$$ a month or a year can go towards a hobby like shorting. Reloading does not shrink that budget it allows you to shoot more for the same money. Actual savings in your pocket doesn't happen because you take the saving and buy more components or load and shoot more rounds. It's not like the "savings" goes into your 401k.
__________________
Use should dictate gear!

Last edited by WVSig; 07-03-2017 at 04:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #50  
Old 07-03-2017, 04:47 PM
TomkinsSP's Avatar
TomkinsSP TomkinsSP is offline
Member
THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION THE DOLLARS AND &quot;SENSE&quot; OF RE-LOADING AMMUNITION  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: E of America's Great Lake
Posts: 301
Likes: 39
Liked 237 Times in 109 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WVSig View Post
Reloading does not shrink that budget it allows you to shoot more for the same money. Actual savings in your pocket doesn't happen because you take the saving and buy more components or load and shoot more rounds. It's not like the "savings" goes into your 401k.
Agreed, but its lke two for one beers at the local watering hole. Sure me and my buddy could go there and have one each, my treat today his next time; what will happen is we each have two.

Technically we aren't saving a dime, just having twice as many sips. But while I don't have a hard $73.26 limit to spend on this hobby this month, I, and I think everyone does have some self-imposed limit on what they spend for anything. If you don't mind the extra effort, or if it's fun, reloading lets you do more shooting for the same coin.

And that is saving money in a sense.
__________________
Its better without the...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"A Sense of Evil" Karnivore The Lounge 155 09-16-2016 09:59 AM
HSM 158 grain .38spl LSWC Police Ammunition marked "Service Load" Four Eyes Ammo 4 03-22-2015 01:55 PM
CCW/EDC 3" 65-3 .357/.38 or 3" 629 .44Mag/.44Spec which makes more sense? cxglock26 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 55 09-27-2014 10:30 AM
"Reloader" or "Boutique Ammunition"? blujax01 Reloading 21 07-31-2013 07:45 AM
"Haz-mat classification" for shipping and common sense. Andy Griffith The Lounge 2 06-15-2009 04:49 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:56 PM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)