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Old 07-07-2017, 05:22 PM
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Default 9mm HP seating problem....

I'm seating soft 158 grain HPs in 9mm Luger, which is what I'm experimenting with. I'm using RCBS dies and I'm going to call them tomorrow, to see if they can help but I'm not optimistic from what I see on their website unless they make something custom. I have a RN seater plug but that squashes the nose of the bullet down and the ogive gets to be about 9mm dia. I doctored them a little but they catch on the ramp, or get caught in the chamber and won't eject. Since I'm experimenting with these I need to know the final shape of the bullet to know what COAL I'm using.

My next solution would be the 'mold sealing wax to fit the bullet.

I was thinking of drilling a cone into the end of my Gold Dot seater plug, which is broad and flat.

Do you know a brand/type of plug that would do the job here?
What would be your solution for this?

Thanks!
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Old 07-07-2017, 05:44 PM
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A seating plug from a 38/357 die should work. You may have to take the Dia. down about a .001 or so. Chuck it up in a hand drill and use sand paper backed by a piece of wood.
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Old 07-07-2017, 07:15 PM
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You can build a custom plug. Just get some JB weld. Put it in the seating plug & set the bullet on it straight. Put some mold release on the bullet 1st, most oils will work for that. Then chuck it in a drillpress & dress it smooth. Custom seating plug for that bullet only.
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:06 PM
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Separate seating and crimping dies.
I cast soft lead with no problems
Three die set will wreck soft lead
Use a 4 die
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:57 PM
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My old 9mm RCBS came with two seating tips........... I think?
At least I have a flat and a round nose, now...............

I would think if you are forcing that lead bullet into that 9mm case that much, to change its tip.............
you are doing something wrong.

Either open up that case more or get a larger case expander.
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Old 07-07-2017, 09:50 PM
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Could you show a pic of the 158 bullet to help us?
I was thinking of a deeper plug that does not touch the nose but rides the shoulder below the nose??

Also mentioned was why there was so much force to seat needed that it is damaging the bullet profile? Is the bullet over sized?
Karl
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Old 07-08-2017, 04:15 AM
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Really, pictures would be nice.
Order a custom seater plug that touches as low down the bullet's ogive as possible and doesn't touch the meplat at all.
In 40 years, a generic RN seating plug that contacts the meplate has NEVER been the best choice.
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Old 07-08-2017, 04:32 AM
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Default Great suggestions, everybody....

You are ALL right!

I think it WOULD be a good idea to open the case more than I would a 'normal' bullet, but even with that, the nose is too delicate unless the seating punch really fits the ogive w/o putting any pressure on the hollow point.

I'll put some pictures in soon. It's an interesting exercise, anyway.

I expect SOME damage to the nose, but I wasn't expecting to be swaging a 'button' wadcutter.

PS The bullet is perfect the way I want it because I'm looking for expansion at low velocities. I tried this with some plated bullets that where hard as brickbats and wouldn't expand at all. Also finding a COAL that feeds and the depth of the big bullet as well as the load are more problems to surmount.

PPS: This is an extension of the thread I started about 'making a 9mm act like a .45". I'm anxious to do velocity and penetration testing with these, but I have to make something that will shoot first.
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Old 07-08-2017, 05:09 AM
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Default Pitiful pictures...

These are awful. You can see that the ogive smushed into an extra band, so when I tried to leave a 'fingernail' of the shoulder above the case mouth, The 'shoulder' was much bigger than when I started.

In desperation, I tried sanding some of the extra 'shoulder' off, but all I got was a mess. I got some bullets to plunk in the barrel and in the Wilson gauge, but they still wouldn't feed for beans.

Pictures are of course, lousy. I'll try to get better if needed.
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:23 AM
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If you reach an impasse

Pm Forrest r
I bet he has tried something similar with all of his fancy hollow points
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Old 07-08-2017, 08:28 AM
JHB51 JHB51 is offline
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A Lyman M expander die for starters. Then a custom seater plug make one from JB weld. You can use paste shoe polish for a release agent and crimp separate from seating.
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:01 AM
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One suggestion.

First, be aware that 38 special seater dies will work just fine for 9mm. Due to the variety of bullets I use in 38 special I ordered a batch of RCBS seater dies to save on shipping costs and ended up with a couple of spares. When I started loading 9mm that came in real handy because 9MM RN and 9mm XTP's have a drastically different setup for the seater die so I pulled a 38 special spare off the shelf and dedicated it to seating XTP's.

Point is that the RCBS seaters come with 2 different plugs, one for flat points and one for RN. It would be rather easy for a machine shop to take one of these plugs and machine a cavity in it that fits your bullet perfectly. BTW, these plugs are unhardened steel that is very easy to machine, I have one I used a center drill on to "build"a custom seater for the Hornady FTX 38 caliber bullets. Doing that was about a 1 minute job in a small lathe.
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:37 AM
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I have a picture of a Rainier 158gr HP seated at 1.06" in the 9mm case.
Why not seat that bullet of yours all the way out to 1.165" and see what happens.
You can always shorten up the OAL if things don't work out.

You could grind down the lead tip on the bullet..........
if things got down to the last straw ?

Later.
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:58 AM
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Default Thanks again......

I've successfully used Xtreme's plated 165 gr RN bullet, and the velocity was ok, but they were too hard to represent anything I wanted in a penetration test in wet pulp. I even 'modified' them by flattening the tip and drilling a hollow point in them. I shot them into a stack of copy paper (had nothing else). Penetration was good but only one shot out of 8 shots 'expanded', which was more like the mangled end got a half inch in diameter. So I'm getting there slowly, but didn't realize how many problems would have to be worked out.

Also, I'd like to try them at maximum COAL, for obvioius reasons, but getting them to feed is a bear.
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Old 07-08-2017, 12:09 PM
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I'd try a different bullet.
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Old 07-08-2017, 12:41 PM
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Default 158 gr. In 9mm.

You already know that's a heavy bullet for a 9, but 147 isn't a lot less. Good luck with 158 test, good advice from other posters. Same deal with 200 gr. 38, but not so much as it's a longer case. But 200's were a factory load for 38, not so with 9mm. Been loading since the late 70's, never tried more than 147.
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Old 07-08-2017, 12:50 PM
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Default 158 gr. In 9mm.

I had the same problem when seating 148 gr. wad cutters in 357 in a Colt Python, 357 cases and Speer swaged bullets. Ended up seating them out or reaming inside 357 cases! Gawd
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:13 PM
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?Also, I'd like to try them at maximum COAL, for obvioius reasons, but getting them to feed is a bear. " Quote;

You might also try to adjust your magazine a little......
to let the bullets tip ride a little higher..... it my be digging into the ramp?

Remember, a little at a time, don't get into a hurry, if you try this.
Hope you get it figured out.
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:50 PM
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Default Call it a 'wild hair'......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coaltminer View Post
You already know that's a heavy bullet for a 9, but 147 isn't a lot less. Good luck with 158 test, good advice from other posters. Same deal with 200 gr. 38, but not so much as it's a longer case. But 200's were a factory load for 38, not so with 9mm. Been loading since the late 70's, never tried more than 147.
I just got this wild hair that maybe this type of bullet in a 9mm could get the required penetration AND good expansion.

Also, these are the bullets that I want. Soft SWC with a big hollow point because I want to get expansion at low speeds for a 9mm. Having started out with very hard 165 grain RN plated bullets, I could get the velocity, but expansion was...well, they didn't.

Actually, I suppose I could get the same with a soft RN hollow point, but for some reason I was stuck on SWCs and for some reason thought they might be more available.

I really like the 124-147 gr bullets for nine and I double if anybody could make me change my mind on that.

OH, I do have an 'M' die in my 9mm die set. I just need to try it deeper than the minimum amount of flare I usually give cases.

All this is coming together. I'm going to get some JB Weld 'Water Weld' because it comes in a stick and is stiff enough to hold together. I've got everything else ready. I had a shellplate 'extender' (My Rockchucker was originally used as a despooler in a lab concerning dying yarn) that I'm using to put a nominally seated bullet on, that I plan to ram up into the and shaping the tip on the end of the greased bullet against the bottom of the 'Gold Dot' seater plug.
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