Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-15-2017, 03:04 PM
MJFlores MJFlores is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 327
Likes: 104
Liked 310 Times in 111 Posts
Default Stop Babying Berrys!

I've posted this sort of point of view before, but an experience yesterday makes me want to share again. Plated bullets are a WHOLE lot tougher than people think, and there's an enormous amount of misinformation about them. I even recently read an article in "American Rifleman" about loading plated bullets, and if any of this stuff was true it's a wonder those bullets survive shipping Seriously, Ive loaded many thousands of Berry's plated bullets at this point, and my experiences dont match 3/4s of the garbage I read or hear.
Last evening, I was shooting a 629 and 240 grain Berry's plated flat nose bullets, moving along at roughly 1100 FPS. My range is right out my front door, so I shoot steel plates...and anything else I feel like. I took some dry firewood, which was hardwood beech and shot a few. The bullets cause each peice to split in two as of an invisible splitting maul was slammed into them. Notice the bettes path through such dense hardwood...notice the lack of deformation, the rifling marks, and my semi firm crimp line. Plated bullets, at least Berry's bullets are much tougher than people realize. I dont baby them, I crimp them hard, I load them to jacketed velocities, and have never experienced a single negative issue. I've shot them into all sort of things and have NEVER seen the plating "flake off", become damaged in any way, and am often shocked at how well they hold up when shot into very hard targets such as this hard wood, cinder blocks, metal objects, etc. Proof is always in the pictures. My point is, dont baby them or be scared away from them. Load em, push em, enjoy them...but dont feel the need to baby them.

here's some pics...240 grain flat point .44 cal Berry's plated bullet. Wood is dry, hard Beech wood.



Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-15-2017, 04:29 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 17,645
Likes: 7,201
Liked 8,229 Times in 4,028 Posts
Default

And your point being??

You stated you are running 1100fps

The max of that bullet is 1250 fps. The core is still soft swagged lead.

Description

Berry's Superior Plated Bullets are swaged and plated to final weight and re-struck
for accuracy and precision. They are more affordable than jacketed rounds and won't foul
your barrel with lead.
SAAMI MAX .44 Spl COL = 1.500"
SAAMI MAX .44 Mag COL = 1.610"
Can withstand velocities up to 1250 fps.
__________________
SENT FROM MY WIRED DIAL PHONE
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-15-2017, 04:40 PM
MJFlores MJFlores is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 327
Likes: 104
Liked 310 Times in 111 Posts
Default

My point is, it's not soft, and the plating isn't fragile. Soft lead would have flattened and not penetrated hard wood.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-15-2017, 05:51 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 17,645
Likes: 7,201
Liked 8,229 Times in 4,028 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJFlores View Post
My point is, it's not soft, and the plating isn't fragile. Soft lead would have flattened and not penetrated hard wood.
Nothing against Berrys or any plated. Good plated bullets can be loaded almost to FMJ loads as you say, They are not going to fall aprt, But they still are soft and plated, Yes you can crimp them but need to be careful not to crack the plating
They are not fine china

Your loads are below their max so all is good.

Take one and smash it with a hammer, then smash a Hard Cast lead bullet.


But THEY are SOFT lead. Swagged bullets by design are softer than cast bullets.

From Berrys own website:

Bad Request


Question: What is the difference between Plated/Jacketed/Cast bullets? Berry's Superior Plated bullets begin as a swaged lead core. The plating process works through electrolysis as the lead cores are tumbled in an electrically charged bath containing high-grade copper ingots. The copper clings to the lead and the longer the bullets remain in the bath, the thicker the plating. Our bullets are plated to the correct size and then taken out of the bath.

Jacketed bullets start with a copper cup, which is "drawn up" into the form of a jacket. Lead is then swaged into the jacket.

Cast bullets are made up of lead that has been poured into a bullet mould. These bullets come in various hardness levels depending upon the alloy of the lead. All of our cast bullets are lubed and all have the same hardness (about 20 bhu). We distinguish between Hardcast and Cowboy only in that our Cowboy bullets are often used in Cowboy Action Shooting events.

Comparison:

Jacketed Bullets: Generally are most expensive but can be shot at magnum velocities and require less cleaning than Cast bullets.
Plated Bullets: Not as expensive as Jacketed, cleaner than cast and will not lead your barrel. But you will have to stay away from magnum velocities when loading plated bullets.
Cast Bullets: Usually cost the least, but are very "dirty" and often cannot be used in indoor ranges

back to top
Question: Why is the bullet diameter 0.001" bigger than my load book recommends?
Berry's Mfg sizes our .32 cal, 38 Super, 9mm, 40/10mm and .45 ACP a thousandth larger than the standard FMJ round diameter. It is completely safe to load, as our bullet is constructed out of a soft lead and then plated with copper, which does not cause the pressure spikes that an oversized FMJ round would. The plated bullet pressure curve resembles that of the hard cast or lead bullets.
__________________
SENT FROM MY WIRED DIAL PHONE
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 07-15-2017, 07:33 PM
427mach1's Avatar
427mach1 427mach1 is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 743
Liked 1,675 Times in 531 Posts
Default

As long as you stay below the manufacturer's maximum recommended velocity, you will do fine. I've loaded some 210 grain plated bullets in my 41 mag to a little over 1300 fps and half the time I was getting two holes in the target with a single shot.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-15-2017, 07:55 PM
oneounceload's Avatar
oneounceload oneounceload is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 141
Likes: 77
Liked 59 Times in 34 Posts
Default

And different makers have different degrees of plating, not all are plated through electrolysis. Some are more of a "dusting".
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-15-2017, 08:10 PM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: North Texas
Posts: 436
Likes: 6
Liked 246 Times in 158 Posts
Default

Quote:
MJFlores wrote:
Seriously, Ive loaded many thousands of Berry's plated bullets at this point, and my experiences dont [sic] match 3/4s of the garbage I read or hear.
What garbage have you heard and were did you hear it?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:19 PM
Steve912 Steve912 is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 739
Likes: 765
Liked 575 Times in 321 Posts
Default

1100 fps? Quit babyin' em!

:-P
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:32 PM
snakeye's Avatar
snakeye snakeye is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 197
Likes: 3
Liked 56 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
Nothing against Berrys or any plated. Good plated bullets can be loaded almost to FMJ loads as you say, They are not going to fall aprt, But they still are soft and plated, Yes you can crimp them but need to be careful not to crack the plating
They are not fine china

Your loads are below their max so all is good.

Take one and smash it with a hammer, then smash a Hard Cast lead bullet.


But THEY are SOFT lead. Swagged bullets by design are softer than cast bullets.

[/B]
Granted it is usually discussed that lead is softer in plated bullets. Well if plated bullet lead is that SOFT I would think that a .44 cal bullet hitting a log of wood at 1100 fps would mushroom a least a little. The bullet the OP posted showed no mushrooming. The OP's post was about how hard the lead was and how the plating held up in those Berry's. Based on his results it seems manufactures maybe starting to harden the lead up and he may be on to something.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:39 PM
scooter123 scooter123 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 6,083
Likes: 140
Liked 3,006 Times in 1,559 Posts
Default

I have to side with the OP. I'll also point out that "Magnum" velocities out of a 4 inch or less handgun won't exceed 1250 FPS unless you are loading a lighter than typical bullet and most likely using a maximum or bit higher charge weight.

Yeah, you can get a 125 grain bullet up to 1400 fps out of a 4 inch revolver but doing that will require a slow burning powder and a maximum or near maximum charge weight. The end result of this particular type of load will be increased flame cutting of the top strap of the frame, increased erosion to the forcing cone, and excessive muzzle flash and blast borders on freakish. BTW, been there done that and won't do it again. If you want to load a 125 grain 357 Magnum to the maximum for H110 then use it in a rifle where you can receive full benefit from that powder charge.

Typical ballistics for a "hot" 357 Magnum from a 4 inch revolver is a 158 grain bullet running between 1150 and 1250 fps. If you want to exceed 1250 fps you either need a longer barrel or a powder charge that is a bit over the listed maximum charge weight. BTW, I am aware that in the mid 30's there were claimed loads that listed 1400 fps for a 158 grain bullet. However those were lead bullets and were tested using chronographs that likely weren't nearly as accurate as todays chronographs. In addition Piezo Electric pressure testing has revealed pressure spikes that were not detectable using the older copper crusher method and as a result powder charges today have been reduced from what they were in the days when the copper crusher was the only means to test for pressure.

Sum it up and today's quality plated bullets can actually stand up to most "Magnum" velocities if a 4 inch or shorter handgun is used. If you load just 1/3 of the range below maximum (a point I have found to consistently be the peak in accuracy) you can safely use these loads in a 6 inch revolver. Exceptions to this statement may be the 460 and 500 Magnum, I have zero experience with these calibers and don't even know what bullet weights or velocities are typical for these Super Magnums. If you want to load for these powerhouses I would suggest the use of a chronograph and careful adherence to that 1250 fps stated maximum velocity.

Another area of concern for plated bullets is when using them in a Rifle. Because out of a 20 inch Short Rifle with lighter bullet weights and powders a rather basic 38 +P load can exceed that 1250 maximum velocity. Personally my preference for Rifle loads in 357 Magnums is the Hornady XTP, primarily the 140 and 158 grain varieties. However I have actually loaded the 125 grain XTP to 2150 fps using H110 and it proved to be a distinctly flat shooting and fairly accurate load. I suspect that if I attempted to do the same with a 125 grain Berry's the bullet would come apart within a few feet of leaving the barrel.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:52 PM
oysterer oysterer is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 37
Likes: 5
Liked 72 Times in 22 Posts
Default

I shoot lots of extreme 148 plated WC and have shot 45 Berrys. They are both more like jacketed, from some that I recovered the plating is thick like a jacket.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 07-15-2017, 11:10 PM
MJFlores MJFlores is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 327
Likes: 104
Liked 310 Times in 111 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
Granted it is usually discussed that lead is softer in plated bullets. Well if plated bullet lead is that SOFT I would think that a .44 cal bullet hitting a log of wood at 1100 fps would mushroom a least a little. The bullet the OP posted showed no mushrooming. The OP's post was about how hard the lead was and how the plating held up in those Berry's. Based on his results it seems manufactures maybe starting to harden the lead up and he may be on to something.
Thank you!! That's exactly what I was trying to get at. My post had nothing to do with velocity. I'm just saying that the lead is a lot harder, and the plating is a whole lot tougher than what a lot of people think. Ive heard the song and dance about "be careful not to crimp them hard", expand your case mouths a bit extra to avoid chipping or peeling the plating off",...and many others. My point is, Ive deliberately tried to over crimp them, or damage the plating and I havent yet. My message is, load them, enjoy them, and shoot them. There's no need to worry about "over working" them at the loading bench.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 07-15-2017, 11:17 PM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 21,135
Likes: 24,818
Liked 16,906 Times in 8,454 Posts
Default X treme

Xtreme bullets seemed like jacketed to me. They are hard and tough and the plating seems pretty thick. Very good bullets. But not if you want soft ones. They are probably a good substitute for fmjs.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:19 AM
ovrbrdonammo ovrbrdonammo is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: CastroValley,ca.
Posts: 7
Likes: 8
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default

Good info. I was wondering about Berry`s . Any information on HSM plated? Also cannot find load data for 125gr. 38 special.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:41 AM
Dr.Lou's Avatar
Dr.Lou Dr.Lou is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 1,554
Liked 1,566 Times in 652 Posts
Default

I love Berry's Bullets. I've had zero problems with their .357, .44 and .500 bullets using mid-range loads.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:18 AM
Wise_A Wise_A is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,180
Likes: 789
Liked 1,422 Times in 620 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
Xtreme bullets seemed like jacketed to me. They are hard and tough and the plating seems pretty thick. Very good bullets. But not if you want soft ones. They are probably a good substitute for fmjs.
That is exactly how I use them in 9mm. Simply pick a powder, look up the FMJ data for the powder I want to use, and start halfway between min and max. Never had a load that failed to function right off the bat. Never had an ounce of leading, either.

Most loads selected that way match factory fodder pretty well.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:31 AM
cadmike cadmike is online now
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 182
Likes: 14
Liked 315 Times in 95 Posts
Default

Berrys are excellent bullets but the plating is very thin. Be sure to properly bell the case mouth before seating or you may deform or shave the bullet.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-16-2017, 06:30 AM
MJFlores MJFlores is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 327
Likes: 104
Liked 310 Times in 111 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmike View Post
Berrys are excellent bullets but the plating is very thin. Be sure to properly bell the case mouth before seating or you may deform or shave the bullet.
This is what I mean. No, in my experience I've never shaved the plating. It's very tough, as tough as jacketed. It withstood hardwood at 1100 fps. Treat them like any jacketed bullet.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-16-2017, 07:18 AM
cadmike cadmike is online now
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 182
Likes: 14
Liked 315 Times in 95 Posts
Default

I beg to differ. The plating is much softer than a copper jacket.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:23 AM
Collo Rosso's Avatar
Collo Rosso Collo Rosso is online now
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 598
Liked 1,260 Times in 504 Posts
Default

I've loaded some Berry's and lots of Xtreme plated bullets. I have roll crimped right through the copper plating. When you do you can't see it looking at the round with a loop, you have to pull the bullet to find it. Cut through the plating and that will lead the barrel. And as I found out, if your rounds are up there in FPS it will lead the **** out of the barrel!
I had some plated rounds (revolver) lead a barrel and when I pulled a bullet I had not cut the plating. I wondered if the bullet was elongating pulling the crimped band open. I could never find a fired bullet to prove this.
Plinking rounds with a slight roll crimp were never a problem. I know opinions differ but I noticed when using slow powders for more FPS the gun stayed cleaner with a stout roll crimp. For revolvers lately I'm pretty much only ordering coated bullets with a crimp band. Kinda makes my life easier.
For semi-auto I still buy Xtreme's plated RN's when they go on sale. They seat fine and I taper crimp to only remove the bell from the case. I've never had a problem with plated in semi-auto's.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:43 AM
BE Mike's Avatar
BE Mike BE Mike is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 426
Liked 987 Times in 450 Posts
Default

Many, many years ago I tried the Rainier plated bullets that were being sold through Dillon. I was most concerned with accuracy at the time. The accuracy was very disappointing. Lead bullets are much less expensive and I never found cleaning the barrel to be that much of a chore. Hard cast bullets of less than maximum loadings are very accurate out of my S&W 629, but I load copper jacketed too when I want to boost the velocity. If you like plated bullets from Berrys, then hooray, but as for me, I'll stick with swaged, cast and copper jacketed, in that order (volume of use).
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 07-16-2017, 10:22 AM
robertrwalsh robertrwalsh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Peoples Republic of California.
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 8
Liked 960 Times in 451 Posts
Default

I have loaded and shot a LOT of Berry's plated bullets. As long as you don't do anything incredibly stupid with them they preform just fine.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 07-16-2017, 10:42 AM
MJFlores MJFlores is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 327
Likes: 104
Liked 310 Times in 111 Posts
Default

Worrying about over crimping plated bullets is really unfounded, unless you're purposely way over crimping what any jacked bullet would even require. Think about it, the groves in the rifling cut far deeper that the case mouth when crimped. You can see about the rifling never cut and exposed lead, nor did the crimp ring. I'm just saying, you dont have to baby them. I keep hearing people claim all sorts of silly things when it comes to plated bullets, most of it simply isn't true. Buy em, load em, shoot em, and enjoy. They're cheap, accurate, and really clean.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:18 AM
BE Mike's Avatar
BE Mike BE Mike is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 426
Liked 987 Times in 450 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJFlores View Post
Worrying about over crimping plated bullets is really unfounded, unless you're purposely way over crimping what any jacked bullet would even require. Think about it, the groves in the rifling cut far deeper that the case mouth when crimped. You can see about the rifling never cut and exposed lead, nor did the crimp ring. I'm just saying, you dont have to baby them. I keep hearing people claim all sorts of silly things when it comes to plated bullets, most of it simply isn't true. Buy em, load em, shoot em, and enjoy. They're cheap, accurate, and really clean.
They aren't as cheap as hard cast lead bullets. As far as accuracy goes, the "modern" handgun shooters don't shoot at any meaningful distances to really "test" the accuracy of ammo and/or handguns. Clean? Meh. Still if, you like them fine, but I'm not sold.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:48 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 17,645
Likes: 7,201
Liked 8,229 Times in 4,028 Posts
Default

Many years ago I loaded Berrys Bullets. Back then they where one of the few plated bullet companies. The prices where good.Loaded them at FMJ loads, I never see the need for maximum loads anyway to kill paper.

Then the price began to rise and they where not much different than FMJ bullets. I then loaded Precision Delta FMJ in semi autos.

I had a bunch of Berrys 9mm that I decided to measure and weigh. I ended up with about 3 or 4 different piles of lengths and weights, I called Berrys and they were nice enough to send a call tag, pick them up and refund my money.

Have not used any plated bullets since then, actually that said, I still have some 30 carbine bullets. They shoot fine.

With the coated lead bullets now around I find them the best for overall range use. I still use regular lead in revolvers and the Precision Deltas in semi Auto.

On another forum there is some pretty detailed tests and comparisons of the different plated bullets out there, There is a difference. Does it matter? Probably not.

They serve a purpose and are fine to use. I do agree that you do not need to "baby" them, they are not fine Crystal
__________________
SENT FROM MY WIRED DIAL PHONE
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #26  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:24 PM
TAROMAN's Avatar
TAROMAN TAROMAN is offline
US Veteran
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The wet side of Oregon
Posts: 5,385
Likes: 5,744
Liked 5,278 Times in 1,765 Posts
Default

I shoot plated from my M1 Carbine at ~1900 FPS with no issues.
And Berrys double plated 124s at 1375 FPS in my 357 Sig. No problems there, either.
__________________
-jwk-
US Army '72-'95
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #27  
Old 07-16-2017, 06:32 PM
muddocktor's Avatar
muddocktor muddocktor is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 2,021
Likes: 3,353
Liked 2,348 Times in 969 Posts
Default

The only Berry's I've shot are their 9mm 115 grain RNHB Heavy Plate bullets and I liked them a lot. With their heavy plating I had zero problems with them at any loading power in my 9's. And generally I've had no problems with the Extreme bullets either except for their 38 caliber 125 grain bullets (not heavy plated). I've had plating stripping with them when loaded too hot, but that was my fault and not the bullet's fault for loading them hotter than they were designed to handle. The plating would strip and deposit at the junction of the barrel and the frame on my N frame 357 pistols and jam up the cylinder. I didn't have much leading of the barrel though.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:18 PM
Eddietruett Eddietruett is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 120
Likes: 37
Liked 186 Times in 55 Posts
Default

I shoot a lot of Berry's 38/357. While I'm not trying to baby them, I see no need to push them when target shooting. I'm looking for accuracy and the 158gr target hp and the hbwc are as accurate as any other bullet I've tried cast, coated or plated. The majority are loaded with 3gr of Bullseye and that combo shoots great in every one of the revolvers I've tried from 2" to 6". I've had similar results with Xtreme and Ranier, but Berrys is hands down the most accurate. With this load, crimping is not a factor. I do like how clean the plated bullets shoot and load. Ive just extended my "home range" where I can shoot 50 yards and I may find the need to "hop up" the velocity at longer distances so I'm glad to know they can be ramped up.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:34 AM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 5,935
Likes: 162
Liked 3,139 Times in 1,635 Posts
Default

The standard Berry plated is rated at 1250fps and the hollow base is at 1500fps.

My first test with a 5" 9mm maximum load was without a Berry plated bullet.
I only had the lower fps Extreme 115gr plated rated at 1200fps and I pushed
it up to 1350fps on a average and a second load at 1305 fps, with full loads.
There were no plating "Specks" in the paper target, which tells me they held together
being 150fps over there recommended speed.

I will not do this again but it did work for my chrony testing of six powders.
Bullseye, w231, Green Dot, Unique, BE86 and HS6.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:05 PM
mikld's Avatar
mikld mikld is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: S. Orygun
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 674
Liked 519 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Good OP (some of the follow up threads stink though). I have only use mebbe 1,000-1,100 plated bullets and have found they aren't enough better than my cast bullets to purchase any more. My cast lead bullets fit my guns so I experience very little, if any leading. I am not sloppy with my casting, sizing, lubing so plated has no advantage there. I don't shoot in an indoor range so there's no "range rules" against smoke, and I clean my guns every time I use them. My cast bullets are very accurate in my guns, so plated bullets are of no advantage to my reloading/shooting. If someone gave me a bunch, of course I'd use them but paying for them and waiting for delivery just don't do it for me...

The only problem I've seen with plated bullets though is the lack of easily found information for plated bullets. I see many, many questions posted by new reloaders about powder charges and crimping...
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 07-17-2017, 02:15 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 17,645
Likes: 7,201
Liked 8,229 Times in 4,028 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikld View Post

The only problem I've seen with plated bullets though is the lack of easily found information for plated bullets. I see many, many questions posted by new reloaders about powder charges and crimping...

The only problem is that people post about loading plated bullets have not done the simple thing of looking at the bullets website!

The link below does work

FAQ - Berry's Manufacturing

Bad Request
__________________
SENT FROM MY WIRED DIAL PHONE

Last edited by Rule3; 07-17-2017 at 02:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-18-2017, 02:06 PM
mikld's Avatar
mikld mikld is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: S. Orygun
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 674
Liked 519 Times in 338 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
The only problem is that people post about loading plated bullets have not done the simple thing of looking at the bullets website!

The link below does work

FAQ - Berry's Manufacturing

Bad Request
That'w why I said "easily found information". It takes a bit of thought...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #33  
Old 07-18-2017, 03:22 PM
venomballistics's Avatar
venomballistics venomballistics is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Escaped WI, Omaha NE
Posts: 7,234
Likes: 3,420
Liked 4,121 Times in 2,140 Posts
Default

The OP seems to be digging in on an indefensible position.
You cannot look at just one single application and call something the last word .... I can assure you that a barrys plated 32 caliber bullet will have miserable results from a full house loaded 32 Winchester Special.
In a role such as this, anyone interested in trying it will have to baby a plated bullet to make it work.
Gas checked cast is far better ... but this too will reach its practical limits long before we hit full power loads in a 300 Winchester Magnum. this is what jacketed bullets are for ....
Jacketed will not fair all that well in a 50 BMG based 338 wildcat. This demands a copper solid with perhaps steel cores to hold up to being fired in such a ridiculous cartridge.
Meanwhile, such a bullet would give up a great deal of performance in a 9MM
__________________
it just needs more voltage
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #34  
Old 07-18-2017, 03:24 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 4,283
Likes: 846
Liked 1,832 Times in 1,196 Posts
Default

Why do people shoot into wood & think that is some measure of a bullet??
The real issue with plated bullets is they are mor fragile during the reloading process, than jacketed. Don't bell enough, you knick the base & accuracy goes to ****. Over crimp & the accuracy goes to ****. I've seen it dozens of times in friend reloads.
Your loads are well within the vel range for plated. Yet crank them to 1350fps or so, accuracy again goes to **** as the plating starts to strip under rpm in the bbl. I've proved this often loading for my 357sig. Then I have never shot them into any wood.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #35  
Old 07-18-2017, 03:28 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 4,283
Likes: 846
Liked 1,832 Times in 1,196 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
Granted it is usually discussed that lead is softer in plated bullets. Well if plated bullet lead is that SOFT I would think that a .44 cal bullet hitting a log of wood at 1100 fps would mushroom a least a little. The bullet the OP posted showed no mushrooming. The OP's post was about how hard the lead was and how the plating held up in those Berry's. Based on his results it seems manufactures maybe starting to harden the lead up and he may be on to something.
Again, wood is a poor test medium. Yes the core on a plated bullet is pretty damn soft. Smash one with a hammer, pretty easy to flatten them, not so with say hard cast. Unless you don't have a saw, shooting wood has little point.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #36  
Old 07-18-2017, 03:36 PM
venomballistics's Avatar
venomballistics venomballistics is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Escaped WI, Omaha NE
Posts: 7,234
Likes: 3,420
Liked 4,121 Times in 2,140 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Why do people shoot into wood & think that is some measure of a bullet??
The real issue with plated bullets is they are mor fragile during the reloading process, than jacketed. Don't bell enough, you knick the base & accuracy goes to ****. Over crimp & the accuracy goes to ****. I've seen it dozens of times in friend reloads.
Your loads are well within the vel range for plated. Yet crank them to 1350fps or so, accuracy again goes to **** as the plating starts to strip under rpm in the bbl. I've proved this often loading for my 357sig. Then I have never shot them into any wood.
Pinocchio didn't fair so well after his movie career ended.
I heard he was hangin out in dark alleys with pintrest fail pallets. No one has ever seen him when he wasn't shellacked either. Bullet performance in wood is good to know .... just in case
__________________
it just needs more voltage
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #37  
Old 07-18-2017, 04:02 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 4,283
Likes: 846
Liked 1,832 Times in 1,196 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics View Post
Pinocchio didn't fair so well after his movie career ended.
I heard he was hangin out in dark alleys with pintrest fail pallets. No one has ever seen him when he wasn't shellacked either. Bullet performance in wood is good to know .... just in case
Yes, if I want to know how much wood a bullet can penetrate, then I know what size tree to hide behind in a gun fight.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #38  
Old 07-18-2017, 07:27 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 17,645
Likes: 7,201
Liked 8,229 Times in 4,028 Posts
Default

Lets not forget tests when the Water Jugs and Wet Newspaper attacks begin!
__________________
SENT FROM MY WIRED DIAL PHONE
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-18-2017, 09:59 PM
Twoboxer's Avatar
Twoboxer Twoboxer is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Eastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 838
Likes: 240
Liked 540 Times in 297 Posts
Default

Honestly, I think the critiques of the OP's opinion of (Berrys) plated bullets are more than a bit over-blown.

Those (Berrys) plated bullets are pretty hard to damage in the reloading process, unless you are really ham-handed. And if you are, the accuracy of any other cartridge you'd create is unlikely to be consistent.

He's not recommending shooting wood - just saying the plating survived. He's not recommending they be used for SD, but who the hell cares if the bullet can be smashed by a hammer if you're gonna smash it against a steel plate. And they do go through paper without issue.

No one should expect the regular (Berrys) plated bullets to do well over 1200fps . . . although they can exceed that modestly . . . or the TPs over 1500fps. If that's your load, you'd have to lack reading comprehension to have used a plated bullet for that application in the first place.

My own tests showed me (Berrys) plated were just as consistently accurate for me as Hornady 9mm or Remington 9mm/380ACP from a rest at 20yds. If I were shooting longer range with match grade pistols, I probably wouldn't use any of those choices in the first place.

There is a need to stay within the advertised parameters, but IMO there's no need to baby Berrys plated bullets.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #40  
Old 07-18-2017, 10:56 PM
snakeye's Avatar
snakeye snakeye is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 197
Likes: 3
Liked 56 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Again, wood is a poor test medium. Yes the core on a plated bullet is pretty damn soft. Smash one with a hammer, pretty easy to flatten them, not so with say hard cast. Unless you don't have a saw, shooting wood has little point.
Your not seeing my point. The OP said he believed the lead was harder than normal in the Berry's and the one he dug out of the wood was not damaged and the plating was still good. All I was saying that if a .44 had a softer lead core it would have probably have some mushrooming even at 1100fps. Your using a hammer as a comparison to wood is ludicrous and certainly is a better point that your hammer theory. At least in the wood he could see some immediate results and compare it. Your hammer theory is like shooting at steel plates at 7-10 yards, nothing but shrapnel is left. Try understanding what the OP was trying to observe it isn't really hard to understand.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #41  
Old 07-18-2017, 11:44 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 4,283
Likes: 846
Liked 1,832 Times in 1,196 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
Lets not forget tests when the Water Jugs and Wet Newspaper attacks begin!
Well lets not go too far. Water & wetpack have some correlation to bullet expansion, wetpack more so than water. Bullets dont expand in wood, deform maybe, but not exPand.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-18-2017, 11:49 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 4,283
Likes: 846
Liked 1,832 Times in 1,196 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
Your not seeing my point. The OP said he believed the lead was harder than normal in the Berry's and the one he dug out of the wood was not damaged and the plating was still good. All I was saying that if a .44 had a softer lead core it would have probably have some mushrooming even at 1100fps. Your using a hammer as a comparison to wood is ludicrous and certainly is a better point that your hammer theory. At least in the wood he could see some immediate results and compare it. Your hammer theory is like shooting at steel plates at 7-10 yards, nothing but shrapnel is left. Try understanding what the OP was trying to observe it isn't really hard to understand.
Well i still dont know what the op is trying to say. Fwiw, i made no such comparision of hammer to wood. Only that a plated bullet is soft enough to easily smash with a hammer. Not theory, just fact. Plated do load diff than jacketed or lead if you want best results. That is fact not theory. So what i get from the op post is he shot a berry's bullet, at a low vel into a piece of wood & that somehow suggests that the 100s or 1000s of people reloading them & their observations are BS? So no, still dont get it. Next he'll test a HST hp in wood & be stunned it didnt expand.
Btw, what does babying even mean?
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Last edited by fredj338; 07-18-2017 at 11:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #43  
Old 07-18-2017, 11:56 PM
m657's Avatar
m657 m657 is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: sunny Orygun
Posts: 2,786
Likes: 208
Liked 224 Times in 144 Posts
Default

Berry's lists their lead hardness at 20 on the links above. That's pretty hard cast in itself.

In the thousands of Berry's I've shot into all sorts of targets, never once had an incident of fragmentation of the boolit/plating. Often have marveled at how well they perform in all calibers I've used up to the 1250 line....and with most of my recipes it would be hard to get faster than that.

I too have had incidents of reloading errors nicking the plating & result in discarded round.

Unsure accuracy has been much of a measurable issue as nearly all my pistol rounds are at the short distance range games. For feeding my 380 seems to like plated better, as did Glocks until I finally rid myself of those demons. Somehow I get the impression my 10m like plated better than cast and poly coated better than either. There's an odd smell with the plated ignition that is annoying to me though.

I'm even beginning to think Berry's target hollow nose actually DOES give me better groups.....
__________________
Dum vivimus Vivamas
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #44  
Old 07-19-2017, 08:20 AM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 17,645
Likes: 7,201
Liked 8,229 Times in 4,028 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Well lets not go too far. Water & wetpack have some correlation to bullet expansion, wetpack more so than water. Bullets dont expand in wood, deform maybe, but not exPand.

Go back to post #4.

I suggested smashing with a hammer

No, shooting a bullet or two into wood proves nothing and no conclusion can be drawn that the lead inside is hard or soft.

Of course this can lead to the minutia of different types of wood and their relative hardness compared to bullet density and velocity.
__________________
SENT FROM MY WIRED DIAL PHONE
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #45  
Old 07-19-2017, 03:13 PM
venomballistics's Avatar
venomballistics venomballistics is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Escaped WI, Omaha NE
Posts: 7,234
Likes: 3,420
Liked 4,121 Times in 2,140 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
Go back to post #4.

I suggested smashing with a hammer

No, shooting a bullet or two into wood proves nothing and no conclusion can be drawn that the lead inside is hard or soft.

Of course this can lead to the minutia of different types of wood and their relative hardness compared to bullet density and velocity.
these things still get messy ... don't they.
bullet composition, bullet construction, target medium blah blah blah blah .... all blind you to the brass tacks of the matter ... holes in paper, or metal in meat.
Does a paper target respond to bullet hardness? No .. absolutely not. A primer only propelled wax wad cutter can do that job just as well as a full house JHP load.
outside the range and into field application, things start to matter. However, not nearly as much as various ad campaigns would have us believe.
Would a deer shot with a 45-70 405G flat point fall over more dead from a 20 BHN bullet than from a 12 BHN? I don't think there'd be that much practical difference, and the results would likely favor the softer round.

My personal approach to the 44 magnum has pretty much book ended the OP's load out of existence on my bench.
for most uses, I favor a lighter bullet at higher velocity most of the time.
if there is a crossover velocity where bullets turn on the terminal upset ... its about 1250 FPS in my observations. In the 44 magnum, that is exceedingly easy to achieve with a powder in the burn rate range of unique and any bullet between 200 and 225 grains. it's a pleasure to shoot at 1250 - 1350 as it is lighter and more economical in the long run. it also does more damage than just poking a hole through things.
Full strength 200G XTP over H110 still holds a place of honor in the special collection. a 1500 FPS, the thing can grind some organ meat like few other loads can.

On the other end of the spectrum are the full house heavy hitters ... 270 - 300 grain, 1100FPS or more. Here we trade off terminal upset to favor penetration.

in between ... the classic 240G gets outdone on either end and fades to extinction.
There is nothing that a 1100 FPS 240G can do that a 1100 FPS 270G can't do better. and for the same energy theres nothing it can do that the 200G won't reduce to a crimson mist.
__________________
it just needs more voltage
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-19-2017, 03:18 PM
mikld's Avatar
mikld mikld is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: S. Orygun
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 674
Liked 519 Times in 338 Posts
Default

When I was "testing"my SD loads I used wet news paper. I learned exactly what my loads would do when I shot at wet news paper. I had read about this being a good medium for testing but soon realized it could only tell me what happened when I shot wet news paper and not how the round would act when shot at flesh and bones...
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-19-2017, 03:35 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 17,645
Likes: 7,201
Liked 8,229 Times in 4,028 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics View Post
these things still get messy ... don't they.
bullet composition, bullet construction, target medium blah blah blah blah .... all blind you to the brass tacks of the matter ... holes in paper, or metal in meat.
Does a paper target respond to bullet hardness? No .. absolutely not. A primer only propelled wax wad cutter can do that job just as well as a full house JHP load.
outside the range and into field application, things start to matter. However, not nearly as much as various ad campaigns would have us believe.
Would a deer shot with a 45-70 405G flat point fall over more dead from a 20 BHN bullet than from a 12 BHN? I don't think there'd be that much practical difference, and the results would likely favor the softer round.

My personal approach to the 44 magnum has pretty much book ended the OP's load out of existence on my bench.
for most uses, I favor a lighter bullet at higher velocity most of the time.
if there is a crossover velocity where bullets turn on the terminal upset ... its about 1250 FPS in my observations. In the 44 magnum, that is exceedingly easy to achieve with a powder in the burn rate range of unique and any bullet between 200 and 225 grains. it's a pleasure to shoot at 1250 - 1350 as it is lighter and more economical in the long run. it also does more damage than just poking a hole through things.
Full strength 200G XTP over H110 still holds a place of honor in the special collection. a 1500 FPS, the thing can grind some organ meat like few other loads can.

On the other end of the spectrum are the full house heavy hitters ... 270 - 300 grain, 1100FPS or more. Here we trade off terminal upset to favor penetration.

in between ... the classic 240G gets outdone on either end and fades to extinction.
There is nothing that a 1100 FPS 240G can do that a 1100 FPS 270G can't do better. and for the same energy theres nothing it can do that the 200G won't reduce to a crimson mist.
Certainly does get messy!

I find good results shooting Wet MDF or Particle board, It kind mushes all over the place.

My tests against Laminated beams and 3/4 exterior ply not so much. A true test is Hickory or Oak,

I found these test results to be very good.

.44 Special tree trimming
__________________
SENT FROM MY WIRED DIAL PHONE

Last edited by Rule3; 07-19-2017 at 03:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #48  
Old 07-19-2017, 04:33 PM
venomballistics's Avatar
venomballistics venomballistics is offline
Member
Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys! Stop Babying Berrys!  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Escaped WI, Omaha NE
Posts: 7,234
Likes: 3,420
Liked 4,121 Times in 2,140 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
Certainly does get messy!

I find good results shooting Wet MDF or Particle board, It kind mushes all over the place.

My tests against Laminated beams and 3/4 exterior ply not so much. A true test is Hickory or Oak,

I found these test results to be very good.

.44 Special tree trimming
Napalm .... it sticks
__________________
it just needs more voltage
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #49  
Old 07-19-2017, 07:07 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 4,283
Likes: 846
Liked 1,832 Times in 1,196 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikld View Post
When I was "testing"my SD loads I used wet news paper. I learned exactly what my loads would do when I shot at wet news paper. I had read about this being a good medium for testing but soon realized it could only tell me what happened when I shot wet news paper and not how the round would act when shot at flesh and bones...
Well sort of. Before gel, bullet manuf used wetpack to test bullets. Why, because it does give good results, sim to what happens in flesh. Penetration is slightly less, but actual expansion, pretty damn close. The bullets below are 210gr NP driven 2800fps. One pulled from wetpack, one from a 600# bull Kudu. Tell me which is which?
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Last edited by fredj338; 07-19-2017 at 07:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
125 gr Berrys and a 15-2 feets Reloading 6 10-04-2013 10:46 AM
Berrys bullets and C.O.L.? csdmann Reloading 3 08-03-2013 11:11 PM
Help. Cant get Berrys to crimp C17 Reloading 36 06-10-2013 08:27 PM
new berrys 45 cal. gsfxst Reloading 0 12-01-2012 06:52 PM
HELP!! what over all lenght for berrys 158 gr hp M2A2 Reloading 18 07-12-2011 11:01 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:45 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)