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Old 02-16-2015, 09:55 AM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is offline
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Default Lowest temp for Storing Powder?

I reload in my garage, which is attached to the house. We're having a brutal winter here, but the garage is never lower than about 55 degrees. The powder is stored under my reloading bench in one of those metal garage cabinets you can get at Lowes. I know metal is not what they recommend, but this cabinet is plenty vented. Has slots on sides and back.

So should I move the powder into the house until the weather gets better and the garage is not as cold?
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:22 AM
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It is cold up here all winter long, every winter. That said, all of my powder is stored in an attached garage which is maintained at 40 degrees. I'm careful to gradually temper it when moving into the basement for reloading. I believe that moisture in the form of condensation is harmful to powder, not the cold temperature.
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:23 AM
ronnie gore ronnie gore is offline
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I keep mine in my insulated workshop along with all my reloading gear.
I have been doing this for 30 years without problems. I do not have heat in my shop. cold does not affect powder but extreme heat can make the powder have higher pressure.
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:26 AM
Garintheair Garintheair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
I reload in my garage, which is attached to the house. We're having a brutal winter here, but the garage is never lower than about 55 degrees. The powder is stored under my reloading bench in one of those metal garage cabinets you can get at Lowes. I know metal is not what they recommend, but this cabinet is plenty vented. Has slots on sides and back.

So should I move the powder into the house until the weather gets better and the garage is not as cold?
I hope not! I'm just north of you and it was -6 actual air temp yesterday. The majority of my powder is stored in an unattached shed winter and summer. I haven't noticed any issues over the years.
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Old 02-16-2015, 11:00 AM
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Alliant Powder - Storage & Handling
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Old 02-16-2015, 11:24 AM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is offline
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I read that before I posted this. All it says is cool dry place. Doesn't mention actually temperatures.
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Old 02-16-2015, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
So should I move the powder into the house until the weather gets better and the garage is not as cold?
No. A tightly sealed original container in a dry 55 deg environment is in the "perfect" range for smokeless powder storage. Heat and moisture cause chemical changes.
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Old 02-16-2015, 01:14 PM
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I agree that 55 F & dry is about perfect for smokeless or black powder. I stored some my powders in the barn until last year, and down to -10 never hurt them and a couple of canisters of 748 were there for 25 or more years, and a 12 pound canister of 231 was in a wooden locker for over 20 and they are all good. Several years ago I had some Ball C-2 and H380 go bad in just a few years (3 or 4). I think there was something wrong with them when I bought them! (I never got expected results from those lots in early usage) My 1 pound cans of 748, have surface rusted the caps on so I had to cut them open (kind of scary!) but the powder was fine and loads perform as expected/compared to loads from when brand new. In times past, Black powder wasn't considered ready to use until it was on the shelf for more than six months and many of my friends preferred it to be 2 or 3 years old! The storage shed was a small free standing wooden building that resembled an out house, without seats! It was extremely well ventilated, the wind seemed to blow through it. Ivan
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Old 02-16-2015, 02:26 PM
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Think off the range for a moment and think field ....
Deer hunting in some parts, include stories of dragging a carcass up hill in 150 MPH winds at 300 below in whiteout conditions for 50 miles across mine fields and barbed wire .... depending on who is telling the story.
I have yet to hear of a cartridge, exposed to some of these bitter, sub zero conditions, failing.
Gun powder is some impressive stuff that way.
it remains quite stable over a range of temps that'd kill ya on either end.
The real core of the issue is performance while at a given temperature where hot conditions raise pressures some.
Storage ... the stuff is pretty forgiving as long as you can keep it sealed
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Old 02-16-2015, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
I agree that 55 F & dry is about perfect for smokeless or black powder. I stored some my powders in the barn until last year, and down to -10 never hurt them and a couple of canisters of 748 were there for 25 or more years, and a 12 pound canister of 231 was in a wooden locker for over 20 and they are all good. Several years ago I had some Ball C-2 and H380 go bad in just a few years (3 or 4). I think there was something wrong with them when I bought them! (I never got expected results from those lots in early usage) My 1 pound cans of 748, have surface rusted the caps on so I had to cut them open (kind of scary!) but the powder was fine and loads perform as expected/compared to loads from when brand new. In times past, Black powder wasn't considered ready to use until it was on the shelf for more than six months and many of my friends preferred it to be 2 or 3 years old! The storage shed was a small free standing wooden building that resembled an out house, without seats! It was extremely well ventilated, the wind seemed to blow through it. Ivan
I live in South Louisiana....no such thing as 55 degrees and dry,
maybe one day a year like that. I've resorted to keeping small containers ( 8 oz. and 1 lb.) in a closet inside my heated and cooled house. Storing larger quanities in a garage and shed would expose it extreme swings in temperature and a lot of humidity.
Gary
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:17 PM
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Nearly everything is recommended to be stored "cool and dry". I think powder mfgs. have to say that because of those that may keep powder and stuff in their flooded basement when temps. reach 99+ day temps. and -99 night time temps...

The temp range that I stored my powder in has run from low 30s to over 105 degrees air temp (prolly hotter in the shed). No problems in many years of storing/loading modern gun powders.

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Old 02-16-2015, 06:56 PM
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Consider this, Chemical Reactions generally proceed SLOWER at reduced temperatures. Since gun powder degradation is a Chemical Reaction I believe that it would be reasonable to conclude that smokeless powder stored in a shed in Antarctica would last much longer than the same powder stored in a shed in the Sahara Desert. I would not be the least bit concerned about cold temperatures above about 50 below damaging smokeless powders. However I would NOT take powder from a cold storage location and open it in a warm home until it had at least 24 hours to come up to temperature.
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Old 02-16-2015, 11:06 PM
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What a coincidence! ... I have a powder storage facility in Antarctica.
If anyone wants to send me their powder I'll be happy to take it.. uh.. I mean store it
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:20 AM
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I keep much of my powder in a root cellar that is no longer in use for that purpose.It has gotten to 35 below and as high as 106 here. But Humidity is truly low when it is hot. 2-6% is typical..when it rains the humidity may be 75 % LOL. I also have powder(HiVel #2 comes to mind) that I am using to load 30-30 recently. The can is dated 1937. Keep it dry and don't let it Sweat . On another note...I bought an estate of reloading stuff from a lady I know. When I got all the stuff she had filled 18 cans of powder with water because that powder might "blow up". I dumped the water out of all the ball type powders and dried it..Tried a load in the 22 Hornet with 12 gr of Lil gun..Statistically the same as the new can..seriously. I was amazed. I just had to try it. At the gun show yesterday I got 2 cans of Hercules Red Dot in the square metal cans..Paid 10 bucks for 'em. I am going to use the red dot and then sell the cans for at least 10 bucks. One can still has the metal seal on it. I dried a couple cans of green dot that lady filled with water and am going to try a load or two with it soon.. I will report on it's use in a few days.
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Old 02-17-2015, 03:58 AM
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Dang! Freeze dried gunpowder. What a concept.
Reminds me of the flash in the pan powdered alcohol (and gasoline) schemes that come and go.
I'll take another teaspoon full!

===
Nemo

P.S.
120 proof Knob Creek is actually pretty good without being dehydrated.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:36 PM
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Default I don't think powder.....

don't think powder has any water in it, more like ether and alcohol depending, as long as it's not in an over sized container water/humidity shouldn't be a factor. If I had a quarter of an 8 pound jug I might consider throwing a silica pack in there or tape it to the lid if it gets freezing.
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Old 02-17-2015, 05:36 PM
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If I had a quarter of an 8 pound jug I might consider throwing a silica pack in there or tape it to the lid if it gets freezing.
Thats a great idea there rw. Would work well for all powder storage environments, I would think.
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Old 02-17-2015, 08:21 PM
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I'm not going to tell you how I store my powder because that's not the question you asked.

While I'm not a chemist, I don't think subfreezing temps will chemically alter (i.e. damage) the powder. What I would be concerned with is long term storage in temps that fluctuate +/- 50*F. I would think this would be enough to cause condensation in an opened container. Again, I'm not a chemist, but I would think adding water to your powder would damage it. Hence the expression "keep your powder dry". I have zero science behind this, just what my thought filter tells me.

Why not move it into your house, and stop worrying about? Do you have so much you think there is reason to fear fire hazard?
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Old 02-17-2015, 09:27 PM
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Why not move it into your house, and stop worrying about? Do you have so much you think there is reason to fear fire hazard?
Some guys have wives. Some guys have wives that object to having gunpowder in the house.

I have one that shoots. She understands when the LGS calls up and asks if I can spare a pound.
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:25 PM
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Some guys have wives. Some guys have wives that object to having gunpowder in the house.

I have one that shoots. She understands when the LGS calls up and asks if I can spare a pound.
HAHAHAHA!

That's good stuff right there.

If you seriously have distribution volume, might be a good idea to climate control the storage.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:34 PM
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I wouldn't put powder in the freezer, but down to 30deg or so, should be fine.
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Old 02-18-2015, 01:32 AM
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As I understand this, only sunlight causes powder to go bad. I keep mine in a cabinet in my shop that isn't heated. Never have had a problem.
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Old 02-18-2015, 09:58 AM
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I buy my =powders"from wholesalers who keep powders in magazines that hold up to 5000 pounds they are located out in a field..unheated no windows usually concrete block. If powder containers are kept sealed there is no real danger of the container sweating internally. I bought an 8lb of Alcan 7 that had been stored in an outdoor magazine for32 yrs. Still good... and last month bought a 15 lb keg of Bulls-eye..stored in a garage unheated since the late 70s...still good. Cardboard keg too. I use a powder magazine for powders stored in the house. An old freezer with the plug cut off. That was actually an approved powder magazine by the NFPA many years ago. It was supposed to have a lock put on it to keep out unauthorized people(kids goobers) but I never did that. You can keep up to 50 pounds in one. If you keep powder in the house in any larger quantity it should be in some kind of powder magazine..even one that is home made.

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Old 02-18-2015, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
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As I understand this, only sunlight causes powder to go bad. I keep mine in a cabinet in my shop that isn't heated. Never have had a problem.
And moisture. Putting anything in the freezer usually dries it out.
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Old 02-19-2015, 02:42 AM
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Some guys have wives. Some guys have wives that object to having gunpowder in the house.

I have one that shoots. She understands when the LGS calls up and asks if I can spare a pound.
I have a few pounds at my feet right now in my living room. Wife doesn't complain until the pile reaches critical mess.
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Old 02-19-2015, 01:14 PM
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If you keep your powder in the cold, keep it sealed when you bring it inside until it warms. Otherwise water will condense in it. The same applies to guns after shooting out in the cold. Leave them cased until they warm up.
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:32 PM
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Actually I've read that powder manufacturers store samples of powder lots under water, which preserves them perfectly. I have no idea how they do it or if it actually gets wet, but it is stored underwater
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Old 07-22-2017, 09:42 PM
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"Keep your powder dry" refers to black powder. Smokeless powder has no soluble components. Alliant (or Hercules) ran an ad a number of years ago about a 100 year old lot of Unique that was stored under water. They would occasionally dry out a sample and test it. It's performance was the same as a modern lot of Unique.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:50 AM
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Some of my powder spent several years in an outbuilding where the temps ranged from 0 to 100°. Doesn't seem to have affected it.
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Old 07-24-2017, 03:26 PM
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I have always stored my powder and primers in a garage; either in Northern Arkansas or North Texas where temperatures range from 10 degrees in the winter to 105 in the summer. The oldest powder I still have was bought in 1983 and when opened recently performed exactly the same as it did on rounds loaded in 1983 and exactly the same as new powder loaded using the same recipe.

The only powder I have had deteriorate was some 1980's vintage Green Dot that still smells fresh when you open the can, but which delivers velocity about 40% less than when it was fresh.

Some powders exhibit temperature sensitivity, but that sensitivity largely has to do with the temperature at which it is used, not how it was stored in ages past. That said, a powder may be sensitive to the temperature at which it is stored, so check with the manufacturer.

Back in the pre-internet days there was a story circulating that IMR-4198 if stored below 10 degrees (F) would undergo a change that would cause it to produce dangerously high pressures. This was a real concern to me because I had just loaded nearly a thousand rounds with it. Eventually, I heard it was a myth and carefully tried some of those rounds and they never showed pressure signs.
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Old 07-24-2017, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
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An old freezer with the plug cut off. That was actually an approved powder magazine by the NFPA many years ago. It was supposed to have a lock put on it to keep out unauthorized people(kids goobers) but I never did that.
The door, I presume, is supposed to blow off in the event of combustion, unless there's some other way to vent the pressure buildup.
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Old 07-25-2017, 11:13 AM
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The sides of the container must be able to give way at low pressures so there is no build-up of pressure in a fire--and that build-up is FAST (think air bag deployed despite have HUGE vent holes in the bag—you can't have your magazine "deploying").
You could store at liquid nitrogen temperatures.
I have Red Dot, Unique, and Herco from the '70s that has only been stored in garages with no temperature control, in CA and AZ, and powders are still good as the day I bought them.
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