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Old 07-20-2017, 02:35 PM
Chacam Chacam is offline
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Default 9mm crimp

I will soon be loading 9mm with a 145 gr lead cast bullet. My brass is range brass and case lengths vary by +/- .005 or so. Using the Lee seating die, it seems like if I set it for oal, that some will be getting more or less crimp. Is that something i need to be concerned about? I am thinking that I set the crimp first and then the oal? Thanks!
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Chacam View Post
I will soon be loading 9mm with a 145 gr lead cast bullet. My brass is range brass and case lengths vary by +/- .005 or so. Using the Lee seating die, it seems like if I set it for oal, that some will be getting more or less crimp. Is that something i need to be concerned about? I am thinking that I set the crimp first and then the oal? Thanks!
Not at all. Look at 0.005" on your calipers, it is barely visible. A bigger issue may be mixed brass & 0.356-0357" bullets fitting the chamber.
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Old 07-20-2017, 03:33 PM
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First, limit the case mouth flare to "just enough" to seat a bullet without the case mouth shaving it on the way in. This preserves case tension on the bullet. Then all the crimp you'll ever need is "just enough" to iron that flare back out.. Lastly, over crimping can and will lessen neck tension and cause bullet set back which in a cartridge like the 9mm, already a high pressure round to become dangerously high.
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Old 07-20-2017, 03:59 PM
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I load lots of 9mm with Lee dies on a progressive press and all I do is set the seating die to just take the flare out. If I load cast bullets I do make the flare a little more though.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:23 PM
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Sounds like you're attempting to seat and crimp in the same step. If you are, try separating the steps, seat all then readjust the die and crimp all. Just use enough taper crimp to straighten out the case mouth, and have the cartridges pass the "plunk test"...
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Old 07-21-2017, 04:21 PM
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Your 145 gr lead is a little bigger than my last 125gr LRN that I
loaded in the 9mm but it should not cause any problems.

You need to know the maximum and minimum OAL for that style of bullet
before you get into loading.

The maker of my 125 RN said that 1.06 was listed for their data.
At this short OAL, I did get the maximum fps from my powders
but a OAL of 1.12" had the best accuracy.

With a 145gr bullet, you might even get good accuracy from a
OAL of 1.165" if it will work in the magazine and feed w/o problems.

My 147gr plated gets good accuracy at 810fps out of my 3.5" pistol.
Good luck with your new bullet.
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:03 PM
Thomas15 Thomas15 is offline
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The bullet is held in place by case tension not the crimp. What you need to do is remove the bell on the case mouth that was applied before you seat the bullet.
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Old 07-22-2017, 12:13 AM
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The bullet is held in place by case tension not the crimp. What you need to do is remove the bell on the case mouth that was applied before you seat the bullet.

You mean after you seat the bullet??
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Old 07-22-2017, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacam View Post
Using the Lee seating die, it seems like if I set it for oal, that some will be getting more or less crimp.
The "more or less crimp" is inevitable with cases of various length, but like mikld said, if you're using a 3 die set go ahead & upgrade to a 4th die by ordering a 9mm Lee FCD die, which taper crimps only. The adjustment knob on it let's you tweek the crimp on the fly for the cases that are off more than the others. It'll be even more helpful whenever you load jacketed bullets. Don't forget to adjust the seating/crimp die to "only seat" if you go to a 4th die.

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Old 07-22-2017, 07:22 AM
ripvanwinkle ripvanwinkle is offline
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+1 what mikld said, and don't forget the "plunk test" when working up a new cartridge.
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:33 AM
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There is no issue at all.
Every 9x19 I have will take up to 0.358" lead bullets in EVERY case without issue.
Next, you aren't shooting long-distance rifle where very small variables "might" actually have some effect.
In fact, most shoot at such short distances that nothing much matters except the shooter's ability to aim.
Finally, taper crimp is KNOWN to NOT be sensitive to case length, over the range you are likely to see. Even roll crimps just aren't as sensitive as so many think.
As long as every case has the case mouth flare removed so the round can feed and chamber, you have ALL the "crimp" you need.
First shoot per instructions and then see if there is a problem.
There is one area where 9x19 appears to be unique: some cases with very thin case walls.
Be sure to always do a push test after seating a bullet by applying thumb or finger pressure to bullet meplat as you try to push the bullet into the case. If the bullet moves at all, reject the round.
this could be true of every cartridge, so you should test them, but only 9x19 has it happen with regularity (say, 1 in 500 rounds of pick-up range brass).
Step back and think for a minute:
We have been loading 9x19 for over a century, using mixed cases and jacketed bullets from 0.355-0.357" and lead bullets from 0.355-0.359" without any issue, and you are suddenly afraid that you've discovered something every one missed?
I guess it is true: every generation thinks it's invented sex and reloading.
Re: COL and Plunk Test
Your COL (Cartridge Overall Length) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.
Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).
Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood (or a few mils higher than where the head of an empty case aligns with the barrel, as all cases are too short and I prefer to minimize head space). After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.
You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop this round in the barrel and rotate it back-and-forth.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) Scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) Scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) Scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) Scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) Scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

Last edited by noylj; 07-22-2017 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:40 AM
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Setback on the 9mm is actually pretty rare, especially with larger dia lead bullets. Its not unique to it either, any caliber can suffer setback if soecs on the dies or bullets are off.
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Old 07-22-2017, 12:06 PM
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Every 9x19 I have will take up to 0.358" lead bullets in EVERY case without issue. ( per post 11 )

My C9 was a little different.
the 125gr RN coated bullet at .356 and .357 chambered w/o any problems.

For some odd reason the largest test bullet at .358 dia. would not chamber in my pistol.
It must have been just a little large or my chamber from the factory was drilled maybe a little small?

No big deal....... the J frame .38 liked them.
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Old 07-22-2017, 04:33 PM
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Seat the bullet first, then do the crimp. Do the plunk test both for COL and for crimp. My Springfield EMP 3" won't plunk the 9mm rounds all my other guns accept. It wants a tighter taper crimp to plunk and feed.
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Old 07-26-2017, 12:24 PM
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As per that crimp......

My Speer 1970 manual shows a 125 gr soft point RN bullet with a cannelure.
The can on this jacked bullet was quite large and deep, back the.
They also mention to seat the bullet at this depth and to crimp it
for the correct bullet depth and OAL for their bullet.

One of the few places where a real roll crimp is mentioned for 9mm loads.

Today, a lot of the 9mm bullets are smooth w/o any "can" so
I am thinking the crimp in these loads with todays manuals are
to be preformed via the taper crimp, style.

My question is........
with the "New" 2000 dies for 9mm, can you actually do a "Roll crimp" on a case
or are the insides of the die a straight drilling w/o a shoulder ?
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