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07-24-2017, 06:27 PM
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Load development - mechanical rests
Who uses mechanical rests (ie Ransom) when testing the accuracy and development of their loads?
I'm thinking of making the plunge.
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07-24-2017, 06:37 PM
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I have a ransom., but it's kind of a PITA to setup & use for just a few groups. I shoot mostly off sandbag rest. I can shoot just about as good of groups out to 25yds, just not for dozens of groups.
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07-24-2017, 07:07 PM
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You might do a search on Ransom rests; this is a fairly regular topic here and there should be a lot of comments and some factual information.
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07-24-2017, 07:14 PM
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I owned one for several years and sold it when my competitive days wound down. It requires a very stable (think concrete and steel) platform to mount it and there is a technique using the Ransom, but it does give a good idea of what is a good load and a bad load. It also has to be mounted to a wooden platform and tightened just so. It is good for competitive shooters who shoot handguns at distances of 50 yards and beyond, i.e. handgun hunters.
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07-25-2017, 07:18 PM
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Bought one, haven't found the time to build a heavy enough steel table to use with it yet, can't wait to try it. Remember that the difference of an eight inch at 25 yards is 1/2 inch at 100 yards, or 1/2 MOA. When I'm doing scientific stuff, you can't possibly be good enough, and you can't eliminate enough variables. When you are down to the wire, every little bit counts towards a final "this round averages X MOA".
I was inspired to buy one after getting a DFT Lead Sled, and it does come down to consistency in determining loads. Sure, I can shoot pretty good rifle groups with sandbags, but with the rest you do so consistently, and you know its the round and not you. Even if you are a good shooter, you as a variable will throw off the final average; if you are an average or poor shooter, you may have NO clue what the gun and load is capable of until you get a machine or weighted rest.
I remember an old NRA article on 28 Special wadcutter reloading and testing, and out of a machine rest they were able to average 2.5 MOA using factory swage bullets and 2.8 grains Bullseye, at 50 yards or less of course, meaning 1.25 inches at 50 yards and 3/4 inch center to center at 25 yards, something that gets to be a bit of a task without a machine rest. Combat handgun might be fine without a machine, but with match guns and reloads, i think the only REAL way to say for certain is with one, if you want to know how high your mountain was, or how deep your valley.
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07-25-2017, 09:02 PM
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Great information, thank you all!
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07-26-2017, 11:21 AM
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I do not have a rest of any kind. I shoot development loads in the same way that I would use them; offhand from a standing or kneeling position.
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07-26-2017, 11:33 AM
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I use two shot bags loaded with sand for my pistol shooting......
and add a bi-pod for my rifle shooting.
Good enough for me to get 1" groups or better, depending on the loads
and how good a day my breathing and old muscle tone is.
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07-26-2017, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdwhit
I do not have a rest of any kind. I shoot development loads in the same way that I would use them; offhand from a standing or kneeling position.
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With all due respect,a poor ay to test the gun/ammo. You need to remove as much human error as possible. Even If you are capable of 1" @ 25y, that means the gun/load can do better. If your goal is to develope the best load in. Your gun, bench or mech rest are really the only way.
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07-26-2017, 11:56 AM
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Our small (about 30 members) gun club bought one many years ago when bullseye was more prevalent. We got grip adapters for 1911, K Frame, N Frame, Mod 52, High Standard Victor, Mod 41. The understanding that anyone that wanted to use it for any other handgun would have to buy the grip adapter and donate it to the club for all to use. Only about 4 or 5 members have ever used it, (this is over about 20+ years). I used it in load development, but once I was satisfied, I didn't use it again for 7 or 8 years. I don't think it's been used for the past three years.
They are a great tool, but awful expensive considering the number of times you actually use it.
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07-26-2017, 12:43 PM
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The only justification for buying a Ransom Rest is for a devoted ballistic experimenter. As previously noted, you will need a VERY steady platform from which to use it. Carefully firing over sandbags from a bench (for hand support, not gun support) will produce about the same grouping results. As I have stated earlier, you are wasting your time making grouping performance judgements based upon five shot groups. Ten shot groups are vastly more reliable.
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07-26-2017, 05:32 PM
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Being cheap,I use another way to find out if the load is accurate or not;I know I can shoot handheld aprox 4'' at 25 yds.If the group of a new load(or from a new batch of bullets)prints larger than that,I stash the gun and ammo away,get my model 17 with Blazer or Win T22 and shoot with it.If my group gets back in the normal 4'' or less,I know my load doesn't cut it.If it is all over the paper,I know the trouble on that day is on the driver's seat!
But if I wouldn't be cheap,I'd probably get one too.
Qc
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07-26-2017, 06:06 PM
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A ransom rest is the "truist" way to take the shooter out of the system, but I've found resting my hands and arms on sand bags and blankets gives less than 1" groups at 25 yards for "good" load combinations assembled with care
Also, the shooter can practice consistant grip, breathing and trigger pull
on the sandbags and get used to the perfect sight picture......you don't get that on a Ransom rest
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I'd like to agree with you BUT
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07-27-2017, 05:32 PM
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Good points
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07-27-2017, 05:51 PM
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A mechanical rest is only good to find out the accuracy of a gun and it's ammo. You will never shoot as accurately as a mechanical rest. Point I'm making is; shoot your gun the same way you would hunting or target practice. That method will give the TRUE accuracy of said gun. I want my guns to hit what I'm aiming at!
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07-27-2017, 08:32 PM
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The point of using a Ransom rest or sandbags is to PURPOSELY remove the shooter (inasmuch as possible) as a variable so that you are testing the grouping capability (not accuracy) of the gun and ammunition and/or adjusting the sights. Unless you are a very experienced and capable competitive shooter, you are wasting your time in attempting to test ammunition by firing it unsupported.
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