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  #51  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DRAINSMITH View Post
If your true goal is to load only 300 an hour any of the Dillon presses can handle that.

Now I clean and maintain my doc's 1050, 2each 650, and a 550 and they all can easily do 300 in an hour.

Now as far as pros and cons. The Dillon folks are going to give every pro they can think of, but very few cons. They have to justify their cost some how.

If you really want to find the cons go to WWW.dillonprecision.com and at the bottom of the page there is "form". Click on that. But before you do keep practicing the phrase "Holy **** on a cracker".

Now, I just loaded 100 each of 9mm, .45, .223, and 308.
9mm took me 4:30
.45 took me 4:40
.223 took me 3:55
308 took me 4.55
Now I reload on 4 each Hornady Ammo Plants. Now, do they have any cons? HELL YEA! But they all can be fixed.

I have not seen any 100% Dillon be able to keep up with my 100% Hornady.
What ???
All I noticed here,, is that the Dillon guys are happy with their Dillon presses and don't bad mouth the other brands of presses. The non-Dillon folks seem to think their press is the greatest thing since sliced bread and the Dillon is a ***.. Quite interesting.

The reason the Dillon guys are all Pro and no Con is they are Very happy with the Blue Cool Aid... If you look at the USPSA Front Sight magazine on equipment used by the shooters,, you will see that 90+ % of them use Dillon reloader .. These are folks that go thru thousands of rounds of ammo a year... And if it didn't work they wouldn't be using it...

SO, If you have a Red , Green, Purple, or what ever press and are happy with it ,,, I think that's great... Reload and enjoy life...

But , I think I will have another glass of the Blue Cool Aid , thank you,,

Last edited by old&slow; 08-26-2017 at 05:50 PM.
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  #52  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:56 PM
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I have a 550 and 650. The advantages of the 650 are the extra hole for powder checker, self-indexing and the case feeder. It's faster than the 550, no doubt. The only drawback is if you load with powder that nearly fills the case, I find the 650 to be a little bit "jerky" and a little powder could come out the top of cases. I've tried just about every do dad and trick to smooth the operation, but the cases still tend to jerk into position.
A Bullet feeder solves most of that problem.
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Old 08-26-2017, 06:01 PM
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[QUOTE=DRAINSMITH;139722307
Now as far as pros and cons. The Dillon folks are going to give every pro they can think of, but very few cons. They have to justify their cost some how.
[/QUOTE] I'm one of those old geezers who remember when Star and Phelps were pretty much king of the hill. They are still nice presses, but back in the day they were extremely pricey and aren't nearly as adaptable to different calibers. When I got really active into competitive pistol shooting, Dillon finally came along. I started with a 450 and upgraded it to a 550B. I got my 650 used for a very good deal. It was missing a few parts, but a call to Dillon got me more than I asked for to get it up and running. Dillons aren't perfect (mine sure aren't), but they are the standard that all the others are rated against. There really isn't a huge difference in base prices of comparative model progressives. Dillon has always been about their progressive presses and reloading. The others have some catching up to do.
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Old 08-26-2017, 06:52 PM
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I noticed in a picture of a 650 earlier in this thread than they also have a blue stool, now I've got to replace my chair and get a blue stool.
I've noticed primer feeds sometimes causing an issue. I've never had any issues but I still use the mega flipper tray and not the auto filler to load the primer tubes, that might be why. I also, at the end of every loading session brush the turret and primer slide area clean with a clean "acid brush" commonly used to apply soldering flux in plumbing. They work perfectly and each of those cheap brushes lasts maybe 15-20 reloading sessions, before I retire it and start with a fresh one. I buy them at just over .11 each by the gross. I'm on my 1st gross since 1988-89. Keep the press clean, properly lubed and adjusted and you will never have a problem.
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Old 08-26-2017, 08:08 PM
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Just for your information ,, My USPSA May/ June 2017 issue of Front Sight has an equipment survey for the 2017 Optics National.

Carry Optics Division : 61% used handloads , 39 % used factory ammo. 84% used Dillon ,,5% RCBS,, 3% Lee ,, 3% Hornady

Open Division : 90% handloads , 10% factory. 95% used Dillon, 5 % Hornady.

PCC Division : 66 % handloads, 34 % factory. 90% used Dillon,,, 10 % used other.

It was the only Front Sight I found laying around that had a equipment survey in it..
Plus I figure some people know what they know and don't want to be confused with the facts, anyway..

I figure what ever press makes you happy,, be it Red,, Blue, or Green is fine by me.. Have fun & enjoy life ..
  #56  
Old 08-26-2017, 08:54 PM
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Dear Mr. old&slow
First point Never did I or have I ever bad mouth the Dillon presses or case feeder. I think they are not only good but are great. But I did want to point out that there are cons. That is what the OP was asking for.

Point two. "Dillon guys don't bad mouth other presses." Please go back and reread post #15, 25, 27, 28, 30, and 34.

Point three. 90+% of USPSA shooters use Dillon. Now if Dillon and the Hornady AP came out at the same time, it would be like Coke and Pepsi.

Point four. You noticed that I inferred that Hornady was a great press. But I also pointed out that it has cons.
  #57  
Old 08-26-2017, 09:13 PM
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Hey,
BE Mike brought up the Star and Phelps machines. They're awesome classics, and a testimony to the real machinists who designed and built them.
They were also really, really expensive and hard to get. In today's dollars, they'd probably cost 50-100% more than Dillon's top machine, the 1050.
Relatively speaking, Dillon was considered a real bargain, price-wise. Just something to keep in mind.

OK, time to stop clacking away here and crank out some loads!
Enjoy!
Jim
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  #58  
Old 08-26-2017, 10:07 PM
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I got my Dillon 500 (upgraded to 550) in 1988 in 9MM. I've added; .38/357, .44 Spl, 44 Mag, .45 Auto and ,45 Colt

If ANYTHING breaks, Dillon replaces it. it's fast. I've never had a cailber that loaded under 300 RPM with 9MM at 500+!
  #59  
Old 08-27-2017, 06:42 AM
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I've been reloading since the late 70's still have and use the rock chucker.
Over the years i've picked up and use a Lee pro 1000 Dillon 550 and Hornady AP.
As has been said keep them clean.
When I start to think about how many rounds an hour I can reload it's time to stop and recheck everything make sure everything is clean.
And I weigh every powder charge, never had a bad reload and hope to keep it that way.
Reloading is a relaxing hobby that I enjoy.

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  #60  
Old 08-27-2017, 08:18 AM
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My reloadiung started way back in the late 50s..mostly shotshell for the first 5 years. For metallic I used single stage RCBS(A style presses). I could not afford a Star of Phelps. Dillon's 1050 is a much modified Star that uses standard dies. but no matter. The 550 is a great machine...no doubt about that. It will load beacoup different calibers. but..there is little need to load 100s or 1000s of most rifle rounds(for the average shooter that is). The number of competitive shooters needing 1000s of rounds of high power rifle ammo is truly small. The handgun scene is where the progressives shine. It really doesn't matter what machine you load with as long as you are happy with it. I was a P-W distributor for many years. The best machine out there for shotshells for oh so many years. I have literally loaded a million rounds on P-Ws..bought my first around 1967 or so. I tried the Dillon 900. Good machine but when I got my first Spolar it turned out to be the best shotshell machine I have ever used other than factory loads. I have used almost every metallic progressive made. I have many now. There are many folks who load more than I do...as my round count is way lower than when I was younger. My criteria for progressive machines are very easy to understand. Reliability is number one...2nd is ease of use 3rd is easy repairs if needed...I do not want to have to tinker to keep a machine working well. 4th is ergonomics or ease of use and production numbers for the least amount of work. Sorry Lee users The lee fails miserably on 3 counts there. Hornady fails on 2 counts...in my experience. Too much tinkering and not as easy to fix problems.. Not quite as reliable as my Dillon machines. I've had Star and Phelps and while good, machines are expensive and parts are not all that easy to get. RCBS runs a distant 3rd or 4th on progressives. They don't actually have a real progressive these days. Do Dillon machines ever have any problems..well of course. On ANY progressive the main variable that causes the most problems is...you guessed it...the operator. If there was a way to mess things up..I could find it. Personally I find that the 650(and 1050) are the best metallic progressives on the market. Every Dillon I have is worth more than when I bought it. Sadly I can't say that about the Hornady or the Lee machines(anybody need a mostly complete Loadmaster? lol or a CH MkIV?) I'm not trashing the Hornady as it works ok for most folks but for me the priming system of the 650 is way better. otherwise the quality is comparable to the Dillon...speed of production..not so much but close. So for all intents the 2 best out in the real world for us (hand) loaders is the Hornady and Dillon. Long live Red and Blue....but I will lean to blue

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Old 08-27-2017, 08:34 AM
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Speed has never been a goal when I switched to progressive loaders. I enjoy the time I spend reloading and still load my rifle ammunition on an RCBS RC IV. For me, it was comfort - I have arthritis as well as two non-repairable torn rotator cuffs and the continual rotations of my shoulders when loading hundreds of rounds of handgun ammo at a sitting was painful. The Dillon 650 gets the job done with far fewer rotations of the handle which is very easy to cycle especially when you consider how many things you are doing with each rotation.

This will sound crazy but I bought Dillon mainly because I couldn't find RCBS or Redding dies for my .38 Super anywhere. I called my media contact at RCBS and learned that dies for that cartridge were not on the production schedule for at least the next three months. I went to Dillon's website to order dies and got to thinking about how nice it would be to assemble my handgun loads the same way I load my shotshells - on a progressive. The seed was planted.

I called RCBS back about buying their progressive (I'm sort of loyal to the "green" brands) but was told the current one was out of production because a new one was forthcoming. Not wanting to be a test mule (went through that with the RCBS Grand shotshell loader), I called Dillon. $1,800 later, I was the proud owner of a 650, five complete tool heads, dies, caliber conversion kits, spare parts kit, tool set with holder and roller handle. The only thing I regret buying is the handle.

Here's a plus with regard to their dies. Get a case stuck (I somehow did even with carbide dies) and you simply pull a pin, separate the die into its two halves and remove the case!

Yeah, I drank the blue kool-aid. But I really enjoy using my 650, especially since it happens without discomfort.

Ed
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:45 AM
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I've been reloading since the late 70's still have and use the rock chucker.
Over the years i've picked up and use a Lee pro 1000 Dillon 550 and Hornady AP.
As has been said keep them clean.
When I start to think about how many rounds an hour I can reload it's time to stop and recheck everything make sure everything is clean.
And I weigh every powder charge, never had a bad reload and hope to keep it that way.
Reloading is a relaxing hobby that I enjoy.
I started reloading in 1977, but with an RCBS Junior. I also still have that press but use it very rarely. I also have a Lee hand press that I'll use to load .45-70 black powder loads.

Over the years I've heard people say the Dillon presses are not good for precision hand loads. However, I've found my 550B will load sub MOA ammunition in both .22 Hornet and .308 Win with just a few tweaks:

1. I use Dillon's 3/4" powder measure adapter to install my Redding BR-3 powder measure when loading precision ammunition. I may hand weigh the powder depending on the powder and the load. The Dillon easily accommodates that by letting you remove a pin from the shell plate and weigh the powder on either the powder or seating station.

2. I use a clamp kit for the tool heads. (Actually, I have installed clamp kits on most of my tool heads, even for pistol ammo, particularly as I also use 9mm in a PCC and .38 and .357 magnum in rifles - all of the above will shoot 2.0 to 2.5 MOA at 100 yards, and clamp kits are cheap.)

3. I use a floating tool head to ensure precise alignment of the sizer and seating dies.

----

The 550B is progressive, but as a non indexed press, you have the option of using it in:

A) progressive mode, with 4 cartridges on the plate; or

B) turret press mode, with 1 cartridge on the plate running through all 4 stages before another case is placed on the shell plate; or

C) single stage press mode, running each cartridge through one operation before moving to the next operation. You can also get a third party kit that quickly sets it up as a traditional press with a single shell holder in the center of the ram and a tool head holding a single die.

Consequently, the RCBS Junior is mostly enjoying its well earned retirement.

The Junior was a great press to learn on, and except for full length case forming operations on rifle sized cartridges, it never came up short. But I did out grow it.

People often fail to think outside the box and are prone to saying that learning on a progressive is a bad idea - and if they are talking about a fully indexed progressive press, they are correct. However given the flexibility of the 550 and the ability to use it in other ways it can easily be used as a learning and teaching tool for a new reloader like any single stage press - with the difference that the new hand loader will never outgrow it.
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DRAINSMITH View Post
Now if Dillon and the Hornady AP came out at the same time, it would be like Coke and Pepsi.
IMHO, if Dillon had never produced progressive presses, Hornady would never have produced one either. Hornady just saw an opportunity to compete for a share of the marketplace which Dillon created. I've never used a Hornady, but have looked at them and after a lot of changes over the years, they seem to have a good machine. If Star had never been invented, Dillon would have retired as a pilot.

Last edited by BE Mike; 08-27-2017 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 08-27-2017, 09:46 AM
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Blue vs red? I say GREEN!

I had one complaint about my 550B. The factory instructions for assembly and use were awful. Thank God for youtube.
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Old 08-27-2017, 10:20 AM
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Here's another thought I have about Dillon. Their 1050, 650, and 550 have been in production for over 20 years. In that time, I haven't noticed any changes or redesigns to cheapen these products. And, they're still 100% made in the USA!
How many things can you really say that about today?
All too often, manufacturers ruin their own fine products by compromising in one or more areas....discontinued for the "new & improved" model, production outsourced to "bring you the (supposedly) best product for the lowest price", etc.
And, we rightly complain: "if only they left well enough alone, I'd be happy to pay more..."
Wouldn't it be great if S&W still made the Triple Lock, and made it to the same quality and beauty as the original? Think about what the price would have to be! And, I bet a lot of people would pay it, too!
Sure, Dillon's stuff isn't cheap. But, put into context, they're still a great value.

Jim

(PS: Yes, I know they outsource the electronics and textiles.)

Last edited by 6string; 08-27-2017 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:17 PM
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All this talk about the "best" Dillon and no one mentions the Dillon M134D the fastest Dillon of them all!

3,000 rounds per minute!

All these reloading presses are made from scraps made from the M134D and is a by product for Dillon.

https://dillonaero.com/product/standard-m134d/

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Old 08-28-2017, 12:10 AM
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Personally I would never by a Dillon. They are a great press but so way way over priced. My Hornady LNL is a lot better value in my mind. When I want to change calibers all I have to do is swap shell plate and dies 3-4 minutes max!! AND I don't have to buy new this and new powder measures and so forth. Just a great press to consider. Look at the features for the same money. Blue is only a color
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Old 08-28-2017, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by DRAINSMITH View Post
If your true goal is to load only 300 an hour any of the Dillon presses can handle that.

Now I clean and maintain my doc's 1050, 2each 650, and a 550 and they all can easily do 300 in an hour.

Now as far as pros and cons. The Dillon folks are going to give every pro they can think of, but very few cons. They have to justify their cost some how.

If you really want to find the cons go to WWW.dillonprecision.com and at the bottom of the page there is "form". Click on that. But before you do keep practicing the phrase "Holy **** on a cracker".

Now, I just loaded 100 each of 9mm, .45, .223, and 308.
9mm took me 4:30
.45 took me 4:40
.223 took me 3:55
308 took me 4.55
Now I reload on 4 each Hornady Ammo Plants. Now, do they have any cons? HELL YEA! But They all can be fixed.

I have not seen any 100% Dillon be able to keep up with my 100% Hornady.
False comparison. Since you are using a bullet & case feeder. Add any, even a hornady, bullet feeder to a 650, 650 wins. Been there done that.
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Old 08-28-2017, 08:24 AM
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I use a LNL and have for years. All by friends (bullseye shooters) seem to prefer Dillon, but for me, the LNL has some advantages. First, the Hornady powder measure is more versatile than the "Lee" ripoff that comes on the Dillon. Second, I have 13 or 14 shellplates for the press, and 14 conversion kits for Dillon cost more than I paid for my Hornady press. If one or two calibers were all I was ever going to load, I might have bought the Dillon.
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Eddietruett View Post
I'm looking to upgrade my loading process. Currently using a Lee Classic 1000 which I love with the exception of the primer loading. Just not fast enough. Been considering a Dillon 650. But open minded. Would like a press to give around 300 rounds per hour which the Dillon should handle easily. Any reviews or suggestions of other brands?
,,, Aren't you glad you asked ??

Good luck on deciding ,,

Last edited by old&slow; 08-28-2017 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:18 AM
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GREEN! Pick GREEN!
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Old 08-28-2017, 11:52 AM
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Personally I would never by a Dillon. They are a great press but so way way over priced. My Hornady LNL is a lot better value in my mind. When I want to change calibers all I have to do is swap shell plate and dies 3-4 minutes max!! AND I don't have to buy new this and new powder measures and so forth. Just a great press to consider. Look at the features for the same money. Blue is only a color
Again, equip the same, the 650 is $75 more. Caliber swaps are just as fast on a 650, yes you pay a tiny bit more for tool head vs the lnl bushings, but the bushings are a pita, they do come loose, why hornady makes shims for them. Extea powder measures are optional, Not mandatory.
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Old 08-28-2017, 12:38 PM
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Again, equip the same, the 650 is $75 more. Caliber swaps are just as fast on a 650, yes you pay a tiny bit more for tool head vs the lnl bushings, but the bushings are a pita, they do come loose, why hornady makes shims for them. Extea powder measures are optional, Not mandatory.
Can't speak for anyone else but the only bushing that came anywhere close to being loose on my LNL was the one for the powder measure which the Hornady shim took care of. Makes sense when you think about it as there is a lot of weight and torque on it. None of the others come loose and most certainly not a pita for me.
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Old 08-28-2017, 03:34 PM
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Can't speak for anyone else but the only bushing that came anywhere close to being loose on my LNL was the one for the powder measure which the Hornady shim took care of. Makes sense when you think about it as there is a lot of weight and torque on it. None of the others come loose and most certainly not a pita for me.
Well if one can come loose the others can & do, hence the Hornady shim fix. Thx for confirming there is a problem. I had one loosen on the sizing die, sheared the locking lugs off. Yes, PITA. I like solid mounted dies, I have no use for the bushing systems popular with Hornady & Lee, ss press or progressive. Bushings offer nothing over conventional lock rings. They are not faster by much to swap out & have that come loose issue. Compared to a tool head swap, like 10sec max???
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Old 08-28-2017, 03:40 PM
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Well if one can come loose the others can & do, hence the Hornady shim fix. Thx for confirming there is a problem. I had one loosen on the sizing die, sheared the locking lugs off. Yes, PITA. I like solid mounted dies, I have no use for the bushing systems popular with Hornady & Lee, ss press or progressive. Bushings offer nothing over conventional lock rings. They are not faster by much to swap out & have that come loose issue. Compared to a tool head swap, like 10sec max???
You're very welcome though I would like to see a picture of the locking lugs sheared off.
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Old 08-28-2017, 07:02 PM
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Again, equip the same, the 650 is $75 more. Caliber swaps are just as fast on a 650, yes you pay a tiny bit more for tool head vs the lnl bushings, but the bushings are a pita, they do come loose, why hornady makes shims for them. Extea powder measures are optional, Not mandatory.
You knock the press, you knock the case feeder, and now you knock bushings. Now Hornady came out with a fix and it doesn't cost you one red cent. And that is a problem?

When is Dillon coming out with a bullet feeder?
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Old 08-28-2017, 07:48 PM
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You knock the press, you knock the case feeder, and now you knock bushings. Now Hornady came out with a fix and it doesn't cost you one red cent. And that is a problem?

When is Dillon coming out with a bullet feeder?
Hornady's fix is a *******g shim. How about, oh, design the bushings so the tolerances match up with the tool heads?????? Yes an issue when trying to match 5 holes. Yes a single tool head is superior to 5 bushings. No I am not really knocking the LNL. I have stated if I never wanted a case feeder, then I would consider it. I have loaded on one, I have measured all the critical dims with my machinist buddy on his press. So I have pretty good exp with both, the 650 is a better tool IMO. I just hate hearing the BS about being cheaper, it isn't all that cheaper, $75 all in, not worth the price for a slightly inferior priming & case feeder & more flex in the press than I like.
Why are you so hung up on the bullet feeder thing? I can put any bullet feeder I want on the 650, Hornady, RCBS or MBF. Since the MBF is slightly superior to the Hornady & RCBS, it would be my choice, but I am not that lazy, don't really need to spend the $300-$400 to up my speed over 700rds/hr & complicate my press even further. My buddy has run all three on his LNL & his 650, the MBF runs the best on either press. I just don't care for them. If I was running dedicated 1050 for every caliber, then sure why not, I am not having to get everything retuned when switching calibers.
A LNL by itself is a simpler press to use hand feeding everything, why I would consider it over a 650 w/o case feeder, & said this many times. The priming system alone on the 650 though is worth the extra $$ but then you really need to run it with a case feeder to be efficient. Stopping to put cases in the tube sucks up a lot of start & stop time.
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Old 08-28-2017, 08:00 PM
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You're very welcome though I would like to see a picture of the locking lugs sheared off.
My buddy sent the bushing back to Hornady for inspection, his press I was loading on. You only have to google this stuff, I am not making it up. Bushing suck when you have to use quite a bit of force, like large rifle cases. So any misalignment is gonna play havoc with them. It was a solution to a non existent problem IMO, swapping dies out. Conventional lock rings are fine & once adjusted, never come loose & only takes hand torque to secure them in any press & remove them.
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:21 PM
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I got the 550 because the Dillon shop is an afternoon drive from here, past some great gun shops. I didn't know anyone who loaded so I was going to have to figure it out. The Dillon was really straight forward and the 550, being more manual, made it easier to keep track of stuff . And talking to guys in the shop, it looks like they will replace anything anytime free!
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:47 PM
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My buddy sent the bushing back to Hornady for inspection, his press I was loading on. You only have to google this stuff, I am not making it up. Bushing suck when you have to use quite a bit of force, like large rifle cases. So any misalignment is gonna play havoc with them. It was a solution to a non existent problem IMO, swapping dies out. Conventional lock rings are fine & once adjusted, never come loose & only takes hand torque to secure them in any press & remove them.
Well what I know about bushing issues is Hornady had a batch of defective press bushings several years ago that would break the tips off. Mostly in stations one and three. Anyone who had this issue and contacted Hornady myself included got new press bushings.
Its mechanical and one can do the "should have could have would have" but it happened and Hornady fixed it. Other than that issue I have had no other issues with the bushings. As far as using the shim for the powder measure I never really did but saw that Hornady had shims for it so had them send them.
Those that have Dillon say its the best. Ok sure though all the reloading oem's have good and bad for their price.
I load on a 650 as well as my LNL.
I like things about my friends 650 and he likes things about my LNL. I don't like things about his 650 and he don't like things about my LNL.
Life is just too short for me to worry about this stuff.

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Old 08-28-2017, 10:48 PM
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With the amount of success Dillon has had over the years, I think the competition wishes they had a slice of Dillon pie but they don"t.
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Old 08-28-2017, 11:46 PM
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I started loading on a Herters single stage machine around 1966. Sorry I sold it for an RCBS Jr., but the Jr was a better looking press. I managed to buy a 450 sometime in the 1980s then sold it and bought the 550B in the late 80s. I have loaded thousands of .38, .357 and .44 Mag and Special over the last 25 plus years. Most of the time it runs like a well oiled machine, but it will sometimes stumble and have to be adjusted, cleaned etc to get running again. No big deal as this does not happen often. Its like getting your car serviced, just needs to be done regularly.
The 650 and other machines arrived after I owned mine, and it has provided great service for a good many years. It does all I need to do.

I have not used other machines, so will not comment, but I'm glad I have a Dillon and have been more than pleased with it.
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:05 AM
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I also started in 1966 with a Herters single stage. In the mid 80's I splurged $79 on a Dillon Square Deal. The first time I wore the nylon bearings out in it Dillon had me return it and it came back as new, for Free! Now they have the spare parts kit with those things. I still load all my 38Special/357 Mag,44 Mag and 45 Colts on it. 1998 or 99 I bought a 550 and load almost every other caliber on it and have zero problems.
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:16 AM
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With the amount of success Dillon has had over the years, I think the competition wishes they had a slice of Dillon pie but they don"t.
Others do, but outfits like Lee sell a bunch of theirs, then eventually the majority will buy a dillon. Pretty poor economics buying twice imo, but free country.
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Old 08-29-2017, 06:57 AM
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Hornady's fix is a *******g shim. How about, oh, design the bushings so the tolerances match up with the tool heads?????? Yes an issue when trying to match 5 holes. Yes a single tool head is superior to 5 bushings. No I am not really knocking the LNL. I have stated if I never wanted a case feeder, then I would consider it. I have loaded on one, I have measured all the critical dims with my machinist buddy on his press. So I have pretty good exp with both, the 650 is a better tool IMO. I just hate hearing the BS about being cheaper, it isn't all that cheaper, $75 all in, not worth the price for a slightly inferior priming & case feeder & more flex in the press than I like.
Why are you so hung up on the bullet feeder thing? I can put any bullet feeder I want on the 650, Hornady, RCBS or MBF. Since the MBF is slightly superior to the Hornady & RCBS, it would be my choice, but I am not that lazy, don't really need to spend the $300-$400 to up my speed over 700rds/hr & complicate my press even further. My buddy has run all three on his LNL & his 650, the MBF runs the best on either press. I just don't care for them. If I was running dedicated 1050 for every caliber, then sure why not, I am not having to get everything retuned when switching calibers.
A LNL by itself is a simpler press to use hand feeding everything, why I would consider it over a 650 w/o case feeder, & said this many times. The priming system alone on the 650 though is worth the extra $$ but then you really need to run it with a case feeder to be efficient. Stopping to put cases in the tube sucks up a lot of start & stop time.
OH GRASSHOPPER WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO LEARN? Could you not tell that "When is Dillon going to come out with a bullet feeder?" Was a setup question?

If you notice I will not attack you unless you attack me. If you attack my press I will attack back. If you attack my case feeder I will attack back.

Now I noticed no one had mentioned the MBF. So I opened the door. I had hoped that some one would have said "I have a BMF and I love it" But no you had to say that the BMF is "superior".

Well here are some facts for you: You noticed that I said that I loaded 100 rounds of 9mm in 4:30. There is a reason for this.

Two weeks ago I had my 60-year-old physical, and after the blood test was gone over I mentioned that I thought that I might have "tennis elbow" He came over to me and lifted my shirt and grabbed my belly and shook it, he then lifted my pant leg and looked at my chicken legs. He then said "I don't think you have played tennis in 40 years. I think you have "reloader elbow". Slow down." He never looked at my elbow.

But with my case feeder loading 100 cases in 1:55 and my bullet feeder loading 100 RN in 3:35 I might get that down to 3:15. ( Already 30 bullets in the tube.) And if I am running a bet you can believe that I will ignore the Docs advice.

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Old 08-29-2017, 11:04 AM
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Once many years ago I decided to do all my shotshell reloading for the year in one month. March in fact. I did end up with tennis elbow from running reloading presses. Ponsness Warrens. I loaded a bit over 80 cases. Cases not flats. Only 5 cases of 12 ga(for doubles shooting). It took over a year to get rid of that tennis elbow. So I made that conscious decision to buy a hydraulic drive setup..or two. It was the neatest thing,,,when it worked correctly. Which was most of the time. But it was a bit too finicky on the 410.So I sold it..and just decided to take my time loading. Heck they could turn out 500 shells an hour anyway. The bullet feeders for the Hornady are nowhere as good as the MBF in my opinion..and I have a Big Green bulletfeeder for 223 I don't use. I decided I didn't need a bullet feeder for any of my presses as, again, they load plenty of rounds per hour without them...and most won't do cast bullets as well anyway. I never tried these newpaint coated bullets in one though. Guess I'll put the RCBS feeder and that ammo plant on ebay or something. I did set the LnL I have in 45 Colt. I don't load as many of them anyway....Yesterday..I had someone call me about a couple of presses and some stuff they have for sale. So after visiting the doctor went and looked at them..2 complete Dillons in exc condition. a 550 and a 650. Bunch of brass included for 500 bucks. Fellow just wanted all that stuff out of his garage. So I had to buy them..I'll keep the 650..sell the 550. Unfortunately he had given all the powder and primers, bullets etc away
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Old 08-29-2017, 02:35 PM
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OH GRASSHOPPER WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO LEARN? Could you not tell that "When is Dillon going to come out with a bullet feeder?" Was a setup question?

If you notice I will not attack you unless you attack me. If you attack my press I will attack back. If you attack my case feeder I will attack back.

Now I noticed no one had mentioned the MBF. So I opened the door. I had hoped that some one would have said "I have a BMF and I love it" But no you had to say that the BMF is "superior".

Well here are some facts for you: You noticed that I said that I loaded 100 rounds of 9mm in 4:30. There is a reason for this.

Two weeks ago I had my 60-year-old physical, and after the blood test was gone over I mentioned that I thought that I might have "tennis elbow" He came over to me and lifted my shirt and grabbed my belly and shook it, he then lifted my pant leg and looked at my chicken legs. He then said "I don't think you have played tennis in 40 years. I think you have "reloader elbow". Slow down." He never looked at my elbow.

But with my case feeder loading 100 cases in 1:55 and my bullet feeder loading 100 RN in 3:35 I might get that down to 3:15. ( Already 30 bullets in the tube.) And if I am running a bet you can believe that I will ignore the Docs advice.
You are now just rambling. So I can use the ok Hornady bullet feeder on my "better" 650, easily matching the LNL output & with less adjustment issues swapping calibers. Sorry you feel attacked, some sort of inferiority complex? I am only pointing out the fallacy of your argument that somehow LNL is cheaper or better because they make a bullet feeder, which will fit the 650 too? Or a better bullet feeder can be had for a little more $$.
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:22 PM
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You guys need to take a shower , Talking/arguing about what presses are better is like politics and religion, it's a "no win" argument/discussion because in most cases the minds are made up before the discussion/argument and no amount of talking/arguing is going to change anyone's mind. The end result in usually bad feelings. Chill out guys and hand load with whatever equipment you want.
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:27 PM
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Personally I would never by a Dillon. They are a great press but so way way over priced. My Hornady LNL is a lot better value in my mind. When I want to change calibers all I have to do is swap shell plate and dies 3-4 minutes max!! AND I don't have to buy new this and new powder measures and so forth. Just a great press to consider. Look at the features for the same money. Blue is only a color
The advantage of multiple powder measures is you keep them preadjusted and ready for your favorite load. Makes changes much faster
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:45 PM
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The old adage was, "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM".

And in the reloading world is seems "Nobody ever repents buying a Dillon..."

With the possible caveat of "...After they get over the shock of looking at the invoice"

I've been an RCBS single stage reloader for 38+ years and will probably remain with an RCBS single stage presses for life, but if I were in the market for a progressive press, the first place I would look would be Dillon.
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Old 08-29-2017, 05:13 PM
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The advantage of multiple powder measures is you keep them preadjusted and ready for your favorite load. Makes changes much faster
Or buy the Unitech microm for the Dillon. I have two powder measure for more than 12 calibers I load on the Dillon's. One for rifle & one for pistol. You have to check the measure anyway, every time you setup, so dialing it in for a caliber change isn't much time, couple minutes. That is Any measure BTW.
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Old 08-30-2017, 02:26 AM
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Well in post #25, #27, #74, and #79, Grasshopper stated that the price difference between the Hornady with case feeder and the Dillon with case feeder was only $75.00. Well, that just didn't sit right with me so I did a price comparison between the two. With only one case feeder plate (the Dillon is $11.00 more for each plate) was $96.00. So by buying the Hornady with my 4 Ammo plants, I saved $384.00.

Now I figured that if he was so far off on this I figured that he might be off on his estimate on his claim that the MBF was between $300.00 and $400.00. in post #79. Well, guess what, the cheapest BMF is $470.00. Now I went back and priced every thing for my 4 Ammo Plant bullet feeders and the total was $1,409.00. Now the total cost for the BMF for the same thing is $2,084.00. The difference is $675.00. Now the total savings is $1,059.00. Now for that amount of savings, I could buy a complete Ammo Plant.

But, wait...wait...wait, it get's better. If you buy 4 Ammo Plants you get 2,000 free bullets, So while the Dillon boy's are buying bullets I am buying a couple pounds of powder, a couple 1000 of primers a couple 100 new brass and a pair of new shoes for the wife.

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Old 08-30-2017, 08:25 AM
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The dillons just plain work well. I have 2 650s set up for my high volume stuff like 40 s&w for uspsa shooting. I keep one with the large primer(45acp) and one with the small primer system(40 sw and 9 mm). I have 3 550s set up for lower volume stuff, 2 with large primer and 1 with small. Right now they are 44mag, 41mag and 357 mag. I purchased the 1st 550 new in 1985 or 1986 and the 650 new about 2000. The others I got in pawn shops or from individuals for great prices. Caliber changes when needed are a snap with my setup as the priming system change is what slows you down. One thing I would not recommend is the 550 case feeder. I picked one up a long time ago and have had problems with reliability . The 650 needs a case feeder and I would not be without one. The hornady would likely be fine once you learn it's system but I started with blue before hornady was even on the radar. Most of us high volume competitive shooters like blue especially 650s since they run so good and mostly trouble free. Dillons warranty is definitely no bs as well

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Old 08-30-2017, 09:01 AM
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Yep, you can buy a Cadillac or a Ford Fiesta. I haven't driven a Fiesta. But I figure it is well made,, will get you from point A to point B,, and is alot less money.
And if you are happy with your Fiesta, I think that's Great.. Probably a nice little car..

But at the end of the day ,,, it is still a Fiesta..

Oh I'm sorry ,, Wrong forum .. Never mind..
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Old 08-30-2017, 09:37 AM
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Just bought a 650 a few months ago with casefeeder...total cost if I bought a MBF with it would have been 1225 bucks. An ammo plant is approx. 1100 set up the same way. 125 bucks... lets say 150. Comparing the two shows something in real world facts. Quality on the MBF is truly much better than the Hornady feeder. I HAVE used both. As far as the case feeder. The shell plates interchange but the Dillon plates are smoother in operation as is the case feeder. The Hornady works but with a few hitches compared to the Dillon. I am certain the Hornady feeders... both case and bullet can be tweaked to be more reliable. I don't see even a couple hundred dollars as being a large difference in the long run... especially when one will be worth more than you paid if you decide to sell. Ease of use and reliability right out of the box IS a big factor too. BTW those free bullets aren't actually free either. Got to pay shipping. Hornady gives 'em to you as a kind of a bribe to get you to buy their product. Marketing is what they call it. Trying to attain a larger share of a limited market. Not saying Hornady's machine sucks but compare them side by side on the same bench equipped the same. You still end up with a somewhat inferior machine for a somewhat lower price. For under 150 bucks you get a better value with a better case feeder and a much better bullet feeder. What's the old saying? Emulation is the most sincere form of flattery. Hornady is trying
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Old 08-30-2017, 11:14 AM
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O.K. let me explain this one more time. My press will run faster than I can pull the handle. My case feeder will fill cases faster than I can pull the handle. My bullet feeder will fill bullets faster than I can pull the handle. So why would I want to pay 1/4 more for one of your "superior" presses? If I liked both Coke and Pepsi, and Pepsi cost $1.00 why would I pay $1.25 for Coke?

Now as far as "Marketing". Wouldn't you want to pay $11.00 for 500 bullets, or $13.00 for a calendar will a large chested gall on it?
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Old 08-30-2017, 12:46 PM
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O.K. let me explain this one more time. My press will run faster than I can pull the handle. My case feeder will fill cases faster than I can pull the handle. My bullet feeder will fill bullets faster than I can pull the handle. So why would I want to pay 1/4 more for one of your "superior" presses? If I liked both Coke and Pepsi, and Pepsi cost $1.00 why would I pay $1.25 for Coke?

Now as far as "Marketing". Wouldn't you want to pay $11.00 for 500 bullets, or $13.00 for a calendar will a large chested gall on it?
I don't know how the customer service is on the Hornady. Maybe you can fill us in. I don't hate the Hornady presses or the company. I will say that if one shops around, he can get a used Dillon for a good price. I had a 650 with a lot of extras just about fall into my lap, for a song. I was missing a couple of little parts and called Dillon. They sent me an updated primer system and a few other things for free. Yes, I'm bragging on my good deal (I don't usually have that kind of luck) but also on Dillon's customer service. I do think that if in fact the Dillon presses cost a little more, in the long run, you get more than your initial extra cost in outstanding customer service. Having started out with a Dillon, way back with my first 450, they earned my continued business. BTW, I'm thrilled that you are happy with your Hornady.
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:21 PM
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I don't know how the customer service is on the Hornady. Maybe you can fill us in. I don't hate the Hornady presses or the company. I will say that if one shops around, he can get a used Dillon for a good price. I had a 650 with a lot of extras just about fall into my lap, for a song. I was missing a couple of little parts and called Dillon. They sent me an updated primer system and a few other things for free. Yes, I'm bragging on my good deal (I don't usually have that kind of luck) but also on Dillon's customer service. I do think that if in fact the Dillon presses cost a little more, in the long run, you get more than your initial extra cost in outstanding customer service. Having started out with a Dillon, way back with my first 450, they earned my continued business. BTW, I'm thrilled that you are happy with your Hornady.
Thank you, sir, good write-up. I am going to give Dillon the credit for the GREAT customer service across the industry.

And like you I am a customer with loyalty. As far as I am concerned it shows your character.
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Old 08-30-2017, 02:45 PM
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Anyone buying a press for 500 free bullets, not of your choice btw, well I don't know what to say. Kind of like giving free gas to buy a Yugo?? Most get it, a few do not, is the nature of humanity. Have at it, free country.
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Old 08-30-2017, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAINSMITH View Post
Thank you, sir, good write-up. I am going to give Dillon the credit for the GREAT customer service across the industry.

And like you I am a customer with loyalty. As far as I am concerned it shows your character.
Sorry, I laughed so hard I spit out my coffee. Brand loyalty is nothing to do with character. Loyalty to your friends & family, maybe the country but to a brand?? More like blind faith. I buy products because they work better than something else. This is cars, tools, guns, whatever. Nothing to do with character just common sense. Who would continue to buy something that was **** because of the brand?
I own reloading equip form every manuf. Some offer a better tool or I can compromise on QC for something I don't use often. I run a mix of Dillon & Hornady & RCBS on my 650. RCBS & Lee & Dillon on my 550. It's about what works best, not some ideological brand loyalty. Brand loyalty is just myopic.
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