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Old 08-30-2017, 10:01 AM
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Default 38 loads in 357 brass?

I have a S&W 640-3. For target practice is it safe to load and shoot 38 special loads in 357 magnum brass? Thanks!
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:13 AM
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Of course; just look for light loads in the .357 load tables, picking loads with the slow speed you want. Ultra light .38 loads in .357 brass potentially may stick bullets. Just stick to the tables and you will be fine.
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:18 AM
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Yes it is a safe practice

Due to the slightly larger case capacity 357 Magnum a tiny bit more powder will be required to reach the velocities advertised for the 38 special loading
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:22 AM
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I understand but can I use the loads in the 38 special tables in 357 brass?
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:25 AM
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If you stick to the med. to higher loads and avoid the bunny fart wadcutter type stuff.
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:28 AM
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Default Don't Do It

There is a danger of very light loads in large cases detonating. Best to stick with published data. There isn't anything you might want to try that someone hasn't done before and written about it.
Light Loads can Explode Page
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:41 AM
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Yes, you can. Until you gain experience, it's best to pick a powder/bullet combo that bridges both cartridges.

For instance, with a 125 bullet, Alliant shows
38 SPL: 5.7 grains Unique @ 980 fps

38 +P : 6.0 grains Unique @ 1082 fps

357 MAG: 9.6 grains Unique @ 1343

So any charge of Unique from 5.7 - 9.6 would be safe. As others mentioned, the greater volume of the 357 case would reduce pressure/velocity, so to avoid a load that's too weak, the +P data might be the better choice.
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:47 AM
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To add I would stick with a bulky powder to reduce the risk of a double charge.
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Old 08-30-2017, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
federali wrote:
Best to stick with published data.
Correct.

And I think that's pretty much what everyone has told DennisE he should be doing. The advice provided by OKFC05 and Mike Campbell to pick loads that bridge the two cartridges seem particularly apt.

Quote:
Light Loads can Explode Page
This legend has been around for far too long.

The site linked to posits several distinct mechanisms to explain a single phenomenon that has yet to be experimentally demonstrated. The section dated 29 December 1996 suggests an experiment to verify the phenomenon, but for the intervening 20 years that experiment has apparently still not been carried out.

If have a link to an experimental demonstration of the detonation phenomenon, please post it. If have a link to a well-documented forensic examination of an explosion attributed to this phenomenon please post it.

As it is, all I am aware of is anecdotal evidence that can be explained as careless reloaders wanting to avoid taking responsibility for overcharged cartridges destroying their guns and maiming themselves.
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Old 08-30-2017, 12:44 PM
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Is there a particular reason you prefer .357 brass over .38 Special?
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Old 08-30-2017, 12:54 PM
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Yes I've got lots of 357 brass and not many 38s. Also I avoid that 'ring around the collar thing. Dennis,
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:13 PM
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I have used 38 Special data, right out of my manual's 38 Special section, in 357 Magnum brass. I've used many 38 Spec. loads with 150 gr. DEWC in 357 Mag. brass and had no squibs. Just realize the velocities listed in the 38 data will be faster than the same loads in 357 brass.

FWIW. Develop safe reloading habits now, right from the beginning and you can use any powder you feel is suited to the caliber you're reloading. I had a squib from no powder in a round in '70 (I had been reloading for just a few months) and since then I have looked in every case I charged with powder to make sure there is powder in there and it isn't a double charge. I choose powders that perform best in my reloads, not how bulky they may be...
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Old 08-30-2017, 02:04 PM
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If you wish to shoot cast bullets, there is safe, published .357 data in various Lyman manuals using Bullseye powder and maybe some others. These are lighter loads developed in .357 Magnum brass, probably comparable to some .38 Special loads.
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Old 08-30-2017, 02:45 PM
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Yes, in general you can use 38 data in 357 brass. It works better with 158 lead bullets than it does with 125 jacketed. Low charges and light jacketed bullets generally are a bad combo in magnum brass.

Using medium speed powders (Unique/N340/HP-38) and light jacketed bullets I like starting 357 data minus 1 grain, which saves a lot of working up from 38 loads.
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Old 08-30-2017, 03:50 PM
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couple of options here, I have done both.

1. Shoot .38 specials in your .357 and clean the gun as well as the cylinder.

2. Load the .357 case with the top end load listed for the .38 special load.

Been doing this for 40 years now and never had an issue. Used to shoot a lot of .38 through the model 19 for matches when I was an LEO, cleaned the gun well and never had any issues.
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Old 08-30-2017, 04:39 PM
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Just loaded 10 rounds of 357 and 5 rounds of 38 with 4.8 gr of Hodgdon CFE powder. Using158 grain coated bullets. Shoot them tomorrow
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Old 08-30-2017, 04:41 PM
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Bullets are coated (action) Missouri Bullet Company SWCs.
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Old 08-30-2017, 04:48 PM
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For anyone with an oversized bore brush, the very minor cylinder ring left in a .357 cylinder after firing .38 Special cartridges is about a ten-fifteen second job for all six cylinder throats. It never hurts to run a brush through the cylinder throats anyway, even after firing .357 Magnum cartridges. This is just a part of routine cleaning to prevent fouling buildup.

I've never seen a ring as bad as described by some folks. If the ring gets to that point, it's a result of neglect.
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Old 08-30-2017, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisE View Post
I have a S&W 640-3. For target practice is it safe to load and shoot 38 special loads in 357 magnum brass? Thanks!
Yes you can. I shoot a lot of 158 lead SWC and 158 TC FCP plated under 3.0 to 3.5 grains of Bullseye in .357 cases in my 686 and are like lasers.
HDWIT is absolutely right.

Last edited by Carrier; 08-30-2017 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 08-30-2017, 07:11 PM
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A)if you load soft loads in .357 brass,use .357 data
B)I shoot aprox 4-500 rds between cleanings;some of my .357s see mostly .38spl loads and I've never experienced the carbon ring symptom whel I chamber .357 brass.Not saying it doesn't exist,just that I've never experienced it.
C)detonation from a light charge;there's simply not enough energy in say 2.7 Bullseye(one very popular for such a discussion)for the ''detonation''phenomenon.I think we should look for some other factor like double(or triple) charging to explain it.A misadjusted beam balance might be another candidate
Qc
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Old 08-30-2017, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qc Pistolero View Post
C)detonation from a light charge;there's simply not enough energy in say 2.7 Bullseye(one very popular for such a discussion)for the ''detonation''phenomenon.I think we should look for some other factor like double(or triple) charging to explain it.A misadjusted beam balance might be another candidate
Qc
Actually, QC, the "2.7 of Bullseye is deadly" myth got investigated a while ago.

Back then, everybody was loading that combo--2.7 and a 148/158. So if a gun blew up, everybody asked what charge it was, and the guy would answer something like "2.7 gr of Bullseye under a 158-gr LSWC"*.

What was actually happening is that certain brands of progressive presses made at the time were very prone to failing to index. They'd double, triple, or even quadrouple charge if the operator didn't pay attention.

It turns out that if you triple-charge 2.7 gr of Bullseye, and then seat the bullet a bit too deep, your gun comes apart.

*The "Glock Effect"--people just don't understand how statistics work.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:37 AM
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Yes down loading to 38 special loads out of a longer 357 case can be done........
but one has to make sure there is enough powder in the load to prevent a "Squib load" from happening.

A copper jacket bullet has more resistance than a soft lead bullet,
so care must be needed to use the correct data in these light loads.

I generally use the larger 158gr lead SWC for low end loads since
it is easier to see on my paper targets than most Jacket designs.

The big plus is being able to get 900fps with several powders
from data that is out there for loaders and are a little easier for
me to load than the smaller bullets.

Stay safe.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:41 AM
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Fired the 10 158 GR. MEI CAST LSWC with 4.8 grains and they preformed well. Will load up a bunch for Sunday shoot.
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisE View Post
I understand but can I use the loads in the 38 special tables in 357 brass?
Yes. I load 2.8 gr Bullseye + 148 gr Hornady HBWC in both .38 and.357 brass.
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:59 PM
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Default The answer is absolutely yes......

Any load that is safe to shoot in a .38 gun with .38 brass is safe to shoot in a .357 with .357 brass.

No one has ever been able to duplicate or demonstrate what some call 'detonation' of very light powder loads in pistol cartridges with relatively large case volumes. What HAS been proven, however is that a load that isn't strong enough for a bullet to clear the barrel can obstruct the next show, which can be damaging to the gun and user.

A much more likely scenario for exploding guns is double charging a cartridge with fast powder, which is very easy to do in a cartridge with a relatively large case volume.

Even if I'm shooting .38 loads in my .357 I use .357 brass to keep from building up the crud ring that makes the slightly longer .357 brass harder to chamber. In my .38 guns I use .38 brass.
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Old 08-31-2017, 05:09 PM
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Default Well yes and no....

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
For anyone with an oversized bore brush, the very minor cylinder ring left in a .357 cylinder after firing .38 Special cartridges is about a ten-fifteen second job for all six cylinder throats. It never hurts to run a brush through the cylinder throats anyway, even after firing .357 Magnum cartridges. This is just a part of routine cleaning to prevent fouling buildup.

I've never seen a ring as bad as described by some folks. If the ring gets to that point, it's a result of neglect.
If I start a range session with a clean gun by shooting .38 cases in my .357 and do about 100 rounds, then switch to .357 mag cases, the cartridges won't seat due to the crud ring. This is not huge deal, as a little bit of scrubbing fixes the problem.

So that I won't have to take time to brush out my gun in the middle of a range session, I use .357 mag cases for all shots in the .357. There's no lack of hygiene here. I'd just rather be able to switch the ammo right over.
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Old 09-01-2017, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisE View Post
Just loaded 10 rounds of 357 and 5 rounds of 38 with 4.8 gr of Hodgdon CFE powder. Using158 grain coated bullets. Shoot them tomorrow
Got a chrony? It would be interesting to see the differences, in real life, of velocities using duplicate loads...
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Old 09-02-2017, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
There is a danger of very light loads in large cases detonating.
Oh man, not this fairy tale again!

Bruce
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Old 09-04-2017, 07:09 PM
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Here is a load (per Speer) I like to use in 357 Magnum brass:

158 gr SWC
6.0 Grs Unique
CCI 500 primers
Velocity - 1,000 fps Ruger BH 4 5/8 inch

Load 38 Spl data in 38 Spl cases is my recommendation.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:41 AM
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Cowboy action shooters load 357's light and have been doing it for years.

Alliant has load data for 850 fps using 357 cases and American Select which is a shotgun powder. They also have loads for Unique.

I'm going to try some myself when I get back from vacation.
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