Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:01 AM
DennisE DennisE is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Posts: 114
Likes: 5
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Default 38 loads in 357 brass?

I have a S&W 640-3. For target practice is it safe to load and shoot 38 special loads in 357 magnum brass? Thanks!
__________________
S&W 66-4, 640-3 357s
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:13 AM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,181
Likes: 1,749
Liked 3,306 Times in 1,525 Posts
Default

Of course; just look for light loads in the .357 load tables, picking loads with the slow speed you want. Ultra light .38 loads in .357 brass potentially may stick bullets. Just stick to the tables and you will be fine.
__________________
Science plus Art
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:18 AM
colt_saa's Avatar
colt_saa colt_saa is offline
SWCA Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 5,835
Likes: 282
Liked 6,981 Times in 2,245 Posts
Default

Yes it is a safe practice

Due to the slightly larger case capacity 357 Magnum a tiny bit more powder will be required to reach the velocities advertised for the 38 special loading
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:22 AM
DennisE DennisE is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Posts: 114
Likes: 5
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Default

I understand but can I use the loads in the 38 special tables in 357 brass?
__________________
S&W 66-4, 640-3 357s
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:25 AM
Toolguy Toolguy is online now
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 666
Likes: 2,232
Liked 648 Times in 302 Posts
Default

If you stick to the med. to higher loads and avoid the bunny fart wadcutter type stuff.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:28 AM
federali's Avatar
federali federali is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 9,534
Liked 4,851 Times in 1,426 Posts
Default Don't Do It

There is a danger of very light loads in large cases detonating. Best to stick with published data. There isn't anything you might want to try that someone hasn't done before and written about it.
Light Loads can Explode Page
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:41 AM
mike campbell's Avatar
mike campbell mike campbell is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: rural western NY
Posts: 262
Likes: 27
Liked 670 Times in 131 Posts
Default

Yes, you can. Until you gain experience, it's best to pick a powder/bullet combo that bridges both cartridges.

For instance, with a 125 bullet, Alliant shows
38 SPL: 5.7 grains Unique @ 980 fps

38 +P : 6.0 grains Unique @ 1082 fps

357 MAG: 9.6 grains Unique @ 1343

So any charge of Unique from 5.7 - 9.6 would be safe. As others mentioned, the greater volume of the 357 case would reduce pressure/velocity, so to avoid a load that's too weak, the +P data might be the better choice.
__________________
Carry- hope is not a strategy.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:47 AM
29aholic's Avatar
29aholic 29aholic is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hermitage, MO
Posts: 5,505
Likes: 1,037
Liked 1,264 Times in 494 Posts
Default

To add I would stick with a bulky powder to reduce the risk of a double charge.
__________________
C M Brier CPA, CIA, CFE
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 08-30-2017, 11:33 AM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: North Texas
Posts: 552
Likes: 27
Liked 313 Times in 195 Posts
Default

Quote:
federali wrote:
Best to stick with published data.
Correct.

And I think that's pretty much what everyone has told DennisE he should be doing. The advice provided by OKFC05 and Mike Campbell to pick loads that bridge the two cartridges seem particularly apt.

Quote:
Light Loads can Explode Page
This legend has been around for far too long.

The site linked to posits several distinct mechanisms to explain a single phenomenon that has yet to be experimentally demonstrated. The section dated 29 December 1996 suggests an experiment to verify the phenomenon, but for the intervening 20 years that experiment has apparently still not been carried out.

If have a link to an experimental demonstration of the detonation phenomenon, please post it. If have a link to a well-documented forensic examination of an explosion attributed to this phenomenon please post it.

As it is, all I am aware of is anecdotal evidence that can be explained as careless reloaders wanting to avoid taking responsibility for overcharged cartridges destroying their guns and maiming themselves.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 08-30-2017, 12:44 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 2
Liked 655 Times in 386 Posts
Default

Is there a particular reason you prefer .357 brass over .38 Special?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-30-2017, 12:54 PM
DennisE DennisE is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Posts: 114
Likes: 5
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Yes I've got lots of 357 brass and not many 38s. Also I avoid that 'ring around the collar thing. Dennis,
__________________
S&W 66-4, 640-3 357s
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 08-30-2017, 01:13 PM
mikld's Avatar
mikld mikld is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: S. Orygun
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 702
Liked 536 Times in 350 Posts
Default

I have used 38 Special data, right out of my manual's 38 Special section, in 357 Magnum brass. I've used many 38 Spec. loads with 150 gr. DEWC in 357 Mag. brass and had no squibs. Just realize the velocities listed in the 38 data will be faster than the same loads in 357 brass.

FWIW. Develop safe reloading habits now, right from the beginning and you can use any powder you feel is suited to the caliber you're reloading. I had a squib from no powder in a round in '70 (I had been reloading for just a few months) and since then I have looked in every case I charged with powder to make sure there is powder in there and it isn't a double charge. I choose powders that perform best in my reloads, not how bulky they may be...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 08-30-2017, 02:04 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 2
Liked 655 Times in 386 Posts
Default

If you wish to shoot cast bullets, there is safe, published .357 data in various Lyman manuals using Bullseye powder and maybe some others. These are lighter loads developed in .357 Magnum brass, probably comparable to some .38 Special loads.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-30-2017, 02:45 PM
Calliope Calliope is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: On the Mississippi.
Posts: 278
Likes: 39
Liked 89 Times in 55 Posts
Default

Yes, in general you can use 38 data in 357 brass. It works better with 158 lead bullets than it does with 125 jacketed. Low charges and light jacketed bullets generally are a bad combo in magnum brass.

Using medium speed powders (Unique/N340/HP-38) and light jacketed bullets I like starting 357 data minus 1 grain, which saves a lot of working up from 38 loads.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-30-2017, 03:50 PM
elpac3's Avatar
elpac3 elpac3 is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Mpls, Minnesota
Posts: 527
Likes: 76
Liked 388 Times in 189 Posts
Default

couple of options here, I have done both.

1. Shoot .38 specials in your .357 and clean the gun as well as the cylinder.

2. Load the .357 case with the top end load listed for the .38 special load.

Been doing this for 40 years now and never had an issue. Used to shoot a lot of .38 through the model 19 for matches when I was an LEO, cleaned the gun well and never had any issues.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 08-30-2017, 04:39 PM
DennisE DennisE is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Posts: 114
Likes: 5
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Just loaded 10 rounds of 357 and 5 rounds of 38 with 4.8 gr of Hodgdon CFE powder. Using158 grain coated bullets. Shoot them tomorrow
__________________
S&W 66-4, 640-3 357s
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-30-2017, 04:41 PM
DennisE DennisE is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Posts: 114
Likes: 5
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Bullets are coated (action) Missouri Bullet Company SWCs.
__________________
S&W 66-4, 640-3 357s
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-30-2017, 04:48 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,038
Likes: 2
Liked 655 Times in 386 Posts
Default

For anyone with an oversized bore brush, the very minor cylinder ring left in a .357 cylinder after firing .38 Special cartridges is about a ten-fifteen second job for all six cylinder throats. It never hurts to run a brush through the cylinder throats anyway, even after firing .357 Magnum cartridges. This is just a part of routine cleaning to prevent fouling buildup.

I've never seen a ring as bad as described by some folks. If the ring gets to that point, it's a result of neglect.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-30-2017, 05:41 PM
Carrier Carrier is online now
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 152
Likes: 21
Liked 40 Times in 30 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisE View Post
I have a S&W 640-3. For target practice is it safe to load and shoot 38 special loads in 357 magnum brass? Thanks!
Yes you can. I shoot a lot of 158 lead SWC and 158 TC FCP plated under 3.0 to 3.5 grains of Bullseye in .357 cases in my 686 and are like lasers.
HDWIT is absolutely right.

Last edited by Carrier; 08-30-2017 at 05:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 08-30-2017, 07:11 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 30min SE Montreal
Posts: 876
Likes: 133
Liked 541 Times in 318 Posts
Default

A)if you load soft loads in .357 brass,use .357 data
B)I shoot aprox 4-500 rds between cleanings;some of my .357s see mostly .38spl loads and I've never experienced the carbon ring symptom whel I chamber .357 brass.Not saying it doesn't exist,just that I've never experienced it.
C)detonation from a light charge;there's simply not enough energy in say 2.7 Bullseye(one very popular for such a discussion)for the ''detonation''phenomenon.I think we should look for some other factor like double(or triple) charging to explain it.A misadjusted beam balance might be another candidate
Qc
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-30-2017, 08:20 PM
Wise_A Wise_A is online now
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 891
Liked 1,589 Times in 693 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qc Pistolero View Post
C)detonation from a light charge;there's simply not enough energy in say 2.7 Bullseye(one very popular for such a discussion)for the ''detonation''phenomenon.I think we should look for some other factor like double(or triple) charging to explain it.A misadjusted beam balance might be another candidate
Qc
Actually, QC, the "2.7 of Bullseye is deadly" myth got investigated a while ago.

Back then, everybody was loading that combo--2.7 and a 148/158. So if a gun blew up, everybody asked what charge it was, and the guy would answer something like "2.7 gr of Bullseye under a 158-gr LSWC"*.

What was actually happening is that certain brands of progressive presses made at the time were very prone to failing to index. They'd double, triple, or even quadrouple charge if the operator didn't pay attention.

It turns out that if you triple-charge 2.7 gr of Bullseye, and then seat the bullet a bit too deep, your gun comes apart.

*The "Glock Effect"--people just don't understand how statistics work.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 08-31-2017, 11:37 AM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 6,075
Likes: 164
Liked 3,239 Times in 1,690 Posts
Default

Yes down loading to 38 special loads out of a longer 357 case can be done........
but one has to make sure there is enough powder in the load to prevent a "Squib load" from happening.

A copper jacket bullet has more resistance than a soft lead bullet,
so care must be needed to use the correct data in these light loads.

I generally use the larger 158gr lead SWC for low end loads since
it is easier to see on my paper targets than most Jacket designs.

The big plus is being able to get 900fps with several powders
from data that is out there for loaders and are a little easier for
me to load than the smaller bullets.

Stay safe.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-31-2017, 11:41 AM
DennisE DennisE is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Posts: 114
Likes: 5
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Fired the 10 158 GR. MEI CAST LSWC with 4.8 grains and they preformed well. Will load up a bunch for Sunday shoot.
__________________
S&W 66-4, 640-3 357s
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 08-31-2017, 04:21 PM
johngalt johngalt is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 162
Liked 1,964 Times in 879 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisE View Post
I understand but can I use the loads in the 38 special tables in 357 brass?
Yes. I load 2.8 gr Bullseye + 148 gr Hornady HBWC in both .38 and.357 brass.
__________________
Common sense isn't so common.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-31-2017, 04:59 PM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 21,693
Likes: 25,568
Liked 17,584 Times in 8,733 Posts
Default The answer is absolutely yes......

Any load that is safe to shoot in a .38 gun with .38 brass is safe to shoot in a .357 with .357 brass.

No one has ever been able to duplicate or demonstrate what some call 'detonation' of very light powder loads in pistol cartridges with relatively large case volumes. What HAS been proven, however is that a load that isn't strong enough for a bullet to clear the barrel can obstruct the next show, which can be damaging to the gun and user.

A much more likely scenario for exploding guns is double charging a cartridge with fast powder, which is very easy to do in a cartridge with a relatively large case volume.

Even if I'm shooting .38 loads in my .357 I use .357 brass to keep from building up the crud ring that makes the slightly longer .357 brass harder to chamber. In my .38 guns I use .38 brass.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-31-2017, 05:09 PM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 21,693
Likes: 25,568
Liked 17,584 Times in 8,733 Posts
Default Well yes and no....

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
For anyone with an oversized bore brush, the very minor cylinder ring left in a .357 cylinder after firing .38 Special cartridges is about a ten-fifteen second job for all six cylinder throats. It never hurts to run a brush through the cylinder throats anyway, even after firing .357 Magnum cartridges. This is just a part of routine cleaning to prevent fouling buildup.

I've never seen a ring as bad as described by some folks. If the ring gets to that point, it's a result of neglect.
If I start a range session with a clean gun by shooting .38 cases in my .357 and do about 100 rounds, then switch to .357 mag cases, the cartridges won't seat due to the crud ring. This is not huge deal, as a little bit of scrubbing fixes the problem.

So that I won't have to take time to brush out my gun in the middle of a range session, I use .357 mag cases for all shots in the .357. There's no lack of hygiene here. I'd just rather be able to switch the ammo right over.
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #27  
Old 09-01-2017, 12:25 PM
mikld's Avatar
mikld mikld is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: S. Orygun
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 702
Liked 536 Times in 350 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisE View Post
Just loaded 10 rounds of 357 and 5 rounds of 38 with 4.8 gr of Hodgdon CFE powder. Using158 grain coated bullets. Shoot them tomorrow
Got a chrony? It would be interesting to see the differences, in real life, of velocities using duplicate loads...
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-02-2017, 02:20 AM
BruceM's Avatar
BruceM BruceM is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 7
Liked 503 Times in 293 Posts
Default

Quote:
There is a danger of very light loads in large cases detonating.
Oh man, not this fairy tale again!

Bruce
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #29  
Old 09-04-2017, 07:09 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
Member
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 490
Likes: 5
Liked 152 Times in 101 Posts
Default

Here is a load (per Speer) I like to use in 357 Magnum brass:

158 gr SWC
6.0 Grs Unique
CCI 500 primers
Velocity - 1,000 fps Ruger BH 4 5/8 inch

Load 38 Spl data in 38 Spl cases is my recommendation.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-05-2017, 12:41 AM
LostintheOzone's Avatar
LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
US Veteran
38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass? 38 loads in 357 brass?  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: WA.
Posts: 2,249
Likes: 1,618
Liked 1,931 Times in 941 Posts
Default

Cowboy action shooters load 357's light and have been doing it for years.

Alliant has load data for 850 fps using 357 cases and American Select which is a shotgun powder. They also have loads for Unique.

I'm going to try some myself when I get back from vacation.
__________________
That's just somebody talkin.

Last edited by LostintheOzone; 09-05-2017 at 10:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
38 or 357 Brass for Range Loads with 231 cds43016 Reloading 12 08-29-2016 10:14 AM
HBWC loads for 357 brass noshow Reloading 7 09-13-2015 11:04 PM
.38 loads in .357 brass? chaparrito Reloading 48 04-29-2015 06:29 PM
.38 Special loads in .357 brass? 617fan Reloading 25 10-03-2009 04:28 PM
HBWC loads in .357 brass AZ Mark Reloading 7 06-14-2009 08:31 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:29 PM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)