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Old 09-05-2017, 08:54 AM
Buzzsaw Buzzsaw is offline
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Default .357 or .38 special brass???

Another question that's probably been beat to death.

My gun will be a .357 mag

For general light loads wad cutter and semi wad cutter. Which cases are best to load? magnum or Special.

worried about jump to lands with the specials
worried about amount of "room" in the magnums

or am I just over thinking it?
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:02 AM
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If you charge .357 brass with .38 spcl loads you don't have that irritating ring of residue to clean out of the cylinders.
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:08 AM
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^^^^ Agree. 38 special brass goes in .38 special guns. 357 brass goes in .357 guns. The "extra space" is not an issue. You can load them to whatever level suits your need. Just be aware that small amounts of fast burning powder such as Bullseye or HP-38 require extra diligence to be sure you get the intended amount of powder in the case.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:24 AM
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Everyone seems to assume that the extra bullet jump involved when a .38 Special cartridge is fired in a .357 Magnum chamber is somehow detremental to grouping performance. I once tested this personally (using a Colt .357 model with 6" barrel) with equivalent full wadcutter MV loadings differing only in the cases used (.38 Special and .357 Magnum). Results? No difference in grouping occurred. If this is a concern, the best thing to do is to perform a similar grouping comparison test yourself using your own revolver.

If you clean your .357 chambers using a brass brush after using .38 Special loads, you will never have a problem inserting .357 cartridges. I'd say 95+% of the shooting I do with my .357s is with mild .38 Special loads. To me it is pointless to use full .357 loads when they are not needed.

Last edited by DWalt; 09-05-2017 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:34 AM
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I have been using .38spl brass in .357 chambers for competition (short cartridges speed load easier) and all you need is a Brownells "Tornado" brush to simply and easily clean the chamber.
There is no difference to accuracy, durability, or cleaning time between using .38 and .357 cases. I've tried it all, and compared it to my Model 14 bullseye gun for accuracy.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:41 AM
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Been shooting .38's out of .357's for near 40 years without ever an issue. Yes, you are over thinking it.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:49 AM
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Use whatever you have on hand. The lands start in the barrel, and either way the bullet will be well out of the case before entering the rifling of the barrel.

Billions of rounds of 38 Special have been shot in .357's. It's not a big deal. If you shoot enough rounds you might have to clean the carbon ring out of the cylinder...
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:53 AM
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All of our competitors who shoot magnum guns (66/19) don't use 357 brass.

All load 38spl brass to what ever the requirement is. (158grn doing 780fps get you there normally) Shorter brass loads faster.

I haven't loaded magnum brass for my pistols in a long time. I have for my marlin. But still don't shoot it much.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:57 AM
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The main difference is that you will need more powder in the .357 case to get equivalent velocity as a .38 Special case. The smaller space of the .38 case is more efficient for target loads.

I'm getting good accuracy even using .38 Short Colt cases (same length and case volume as 9mm) in a .357 chamber. The reason is that the throat of the chamber at the front of the cylinder lines up the bullet before it enters the barrel, regardless of case length. If the gun is mechanically as it should be and the bullets are the right size and not leading, there should be no problems.
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Old 09-05-2017, 12:56 PM
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It boils down to personal choice. Some say "don't use Specials in Magnum guns 'cause of the dreaded carbon ring". Some say, "go fer it". I got y first 38 Special in '69 and started reloading for is shortly after. I got my .357 Magnum in '75 and since I had a bunch of 38 brass, most of my reloads for the 357 were in 38 brass. I cleaned my gun after every shooting session. I have fired as much as 150 rounds of Specials in my Magnums before the crud became noticeable (it depends on the load, cast bullets dirtiest). After I acquired a bunch of 357 brass I started using more 357 brass than 38 brass in my 357 revolver and I even used plain old 38 Special data in my 357 Magnum brass. I can't remember any problems in my varied reloading and I still have all the guns involved...

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Old 09-05-2017, 01:12 PM
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I carry a Mdl 60 .357 and target shoot my Mdl 15. I practice with 38spl in my Mdl 60.. No drama...
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:33 PM
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Another thing to consider is ejecting empty cases....the specials are knocked clear , the magnum length cases sometimes have to be cajoled clear, the specials are a fast reload.
I bought 100 brand new Starline 357 magnum to shot out of a 1971 Ruger Blackhawk, I've had it since 1972 and 99.8 % of the time shot 38 special cases in it....at the range I suddenly remembered what I didn't like about 357 cases, they didn't want to easily exit the chambers....I'm going back to 38 special brass.
I have never noticed the dreaded ring but I clean my guns after shooting...accuracy isn't affected. Some selected 38 loads will out shoot some 357 loads. 2.8 grains Bullseye in 38 special case with any cast bullet between 148 and 160 grains is a tack driver.
Don't overthink it and don't worry about jump or ring ...it's a non factor. Get an assortment of ammo and try them all !
Gary
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:50 PM
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Don't over think it. It's been done by many so many times before you. Just grab whichever size brass you have handy and load away.

As for me, I can't remember the last time I reloaded anything but 38 spl cases for any of my 357's. 1990 maybe??
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:30 PM
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I use magnum brass for all my loads because I have more of it.
If you have a lot of 38 brass, use it.
Whatever keeps you from buying brass.
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
I use magnum brass for all my loads because I have more of it.
If you have a lot of 38 brass, use it.
Whatever keeps you from buying brass.

And on the flip side I use 38 special brass because I have a lot more of it and only a limited supply of 357.
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:26 PM
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Majority of the loads which I run through my Ruger BH 4 5/8 inch are 38 Spl +P using Power Pistol and 158 gr SWCs (velocity approx 940 fps). Good accuracy with enough power for my shooting pleasure.

I occasionally use a 1,100 fps "strong" mid range 357 Mag loading using 357 Mag brass and 158 gr H&G 51 SWC (Stateline bullets) or 158 gr Bayou SWC with Power Pistol (this is my most accurate loading in the Ruger BH, using either 38 Spl or 357 Mag cases).
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:36 PM
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...clarify... my 357 Mag loading mentioned is more accurate that my 38 Spl +P loads but I'm sure I can develop an equally accurate loading in 38 Spl cases if I wanted to. I did have a 38-44 158 gr loading using old Lyman # 44 manual data and 2400 powder which was my accuracy champion regardless of the case type using S&W N frame revolvers. Power Pistol with published reloading data is all I use now...great performance using less powder, clean and very measurable as well.
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Old 09-05-2017, 05:25 PM
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All of my .357s shoot .38 reloads, in .38 cases, well.
Normal cleaning has always removed any .38 chamber ring.
I don't stress about it.
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:00 PM
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Although I only reload 357 brass for my 357's, I always buy bulk packs of .38 when it's a good price. I've fired untold thousands of 38 spl out of 357 magnums and never have an issue. To be truthful, I've never even experienced the "crud ring" people talk about. I always soak the cylinder with ballistol for an hour or so...3 passes through each hole with a bronze brush, and it's clean as a whistle. Dont think too much on it...just shoot em!
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:54 PM
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all of my 357 mag get a steady diet of 38 cal. I will load them with 357 mag over the counter ammo when I carry them for personal protection, I do reload 357 mag for my Henry 357mag rifle, as they are recommended for best performance.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:11 PM
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After I came into posession of a large quantity of 357 brass cases I set aside the 38spl cases I'd been using without any issues.

My 357 target load is 4.0gr of Titegroop under a 158gr hard cast bullet.

I also use 44 magnum cases in 44 magnum revolvers.I found no issue using 44spl cases prior to acquiring a good supply of 44 magnum cases.

Use what you have and develop loads using them.
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Old 09-08-2017, 08:57 PM
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Even in a .357 with .357 brass the bullet jump is quite long(get out of the brass,travel all the way out of the cylinder,jump the gap between cylinder and the long tube,engage the forcing cone and finally hit the rifling).I don't think that the 1/8'' difference between .38 and .357 brass all means by itself the difference between a grouping versus a patterning load.
Sometimes,yes,the most accurate load in a .357 will be with .357 brass but some other times,the short guy will win hands down.Like always in ballistics,testing is the way to find out.
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Old 09-09-2017, 12:16 PM
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You say your gun is going to be a 357 Magnum, so unless you have a 38 Special too, just get and use 357 brass. K.I.S.S....
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Old 09-09-2017, 01:30 PM
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I find that it is better to use .38 Sp. brass for light loads because the powder charges are smaller, and hence the air space between the base of the bullet and the top of the powder charge is less with .38 Sp. brass.

This facilitates the consistent burning of the charge, leading to less shot to shot variation and (hopefully) better accuracy.
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Old 09-09-2017, 02:25 PM
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It depends on the propellant. Some demand a 95 (TB) to 105 (CSB) percent case fill under the bullet for best accuracy. Others (BE) don't seem to care. Shooting the same 125 gn LRNFP with different propellants I get best accuracy in 1.75 to 3 inch barrels in .38 short colt, .38 "medium" (cut down long or special), .38 long colt, .38 s&w special, .357 rem mag brass.

PS: I load that same bullet in .380 (M380) and 9x19 brass (M940). A perverse consequence of finding one 'standard' bullet.

Using a mop full of No9 and a few patches after each use, I never had an issue with cylinder rings.
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Old 09-09-2017, 03:53 PM
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Have shot thousands of 38s in a number of different 357s.
Handloads, factory, GI, tracers, you name it!
Don't recall having any problems.
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Old 09-10-2017, 01:24 PM
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My own loads evolved into this particular set up:

I load my 357 mag brass to (nearly) full top end published recipes; no need to try to keep track of what load/where POA/POI may be;

I load my 38 brass to a couple of the lesser recipes in addition to the 'full meal deal' load. Yes, I write the recipe on the plastic box with a sharpie to keep track.

Mostly my 38s are for range games and there's little practical difference anyway.

Except for the speed/reloading game, where my 8 shot 627 prefers the shorter 38 cases as the longer ones can be more demanding for time on the clock.

For my general use I don't actually have much need for the advantages of 357 mag loads. And, I don't like the sound wave from them. 41 mag is what gawd had intended when she invented shot & shell in the first place, and I use it more than any 357 on hand.
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Old 09-10-2017, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
Whatever keeps you from buying brass.
When at the range I look in the trash.

Recently scored 100 once fired .357 brass.

and 100 once fired 10mm nickel.
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Old 09-10-2017, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post
When at the range I look in the trash.

Recently scored 100 once fired .357 brass.

and 100 once fired 10mm nickel.
Nice score!
When I shot a Glock 20 I loved the nickel brass, so much easier to find in the grass and it looked better after spending a winter under the snow.

I never, ever find 357 brass at the range, and my main batch of Winchester 357 brass is starting to wear out (after 15 years of continuous use). Case mouth splits.

I might be forced to run 38s for a while, oh no!
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:06 PM
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No real reason to inventory both brasses if you are only shooting in a .357 cylinder.
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:39 PM
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"I never, ever find 357 brass at the range,"
....try to count the 41 mags you come across....
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:00 AM
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Default Good reason....

Each range trip gets started with shooting .38, whether out of .38 or .357. When I switch to shooting all .357 they won't chamber. I don't want to spend range time brushing cylinders, so I just shoot all .357 cases in the .357 whether the load is .38 special or .357.

PS: If you don't develop crud rings, that's great, but I guess I load some really dirty ammo and I think the lube-in-groove gets into the mix
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