Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-07-2017, 01:08 AM
S&W Rover's Avatar
S&W Rover S&W Rover is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,017
Likes: 775
Liked 693 Times in 330 Posts
Default Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass

I always pick up brass at the range! Mine, plus any other brass that has been left behind in my lane.

Last night, I picked up some 9mm brass headstamped POF 76 9MM 2Z. POF stands for Pakistan Ordnance Factory, I found out later with help from the Range Officer. 76 is probably the year of production!

Looking inside, I saw that the round had a Berdan primer, with two flash holes instead of one centered flash hole of the normally encountered Boxer primer. First I'd ever seen - so I'm sharing this as a new experience. Others may be familiar with this brass; there are a few postings about it on the internet going back a number of years.

The POF brass looked to be a slightly different, too: uniformly darker, almost brown in color compared to “regular” range mongrel brass. When cleaned up, it looks to be the same color as typical brass. Inside, it had a heavy ring of lacquer around the place where the base of the bullet was in the shell. The primer is lacquered in place, too.

If you are a reloader, Berdan-primed brass is probably something you need to watch out for, if you pick up brass on the range or buy bags of unsorted range brass from secondary vendors. Berdan primed brass could bend or snap the pin of the typical sizing/de-capping die.

According to the POF web page, these POF bullets are 115 grains, marked either MK1Z (or just 1Z) or MK2Z (or 2Z). The MK1Z is rated on their web page at 1119 fps. The MK2Z is labeled submachine gun ammo, rated at 1296 fps. The brass I found is marked 2Z.
Attached Thumbnails
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass-pof-headstamp-jpg   Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass-berdan-primed-shell-jpg  
__________________
S&W Rover

Last edited by S&W Rover; 09-07-2017 at 10:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #2  
Old 09-07-2017, 12:17 PM
e3mrk e3mrk is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 75
Liked 2,147 Times in 751 Posts
Default

I dont do it but I have read where people drill a hole between the two primer holes and then just reload as usual.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-07-2017, 01:15 PM
SMSgt SMSgt is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 652
Liked 1,650 Times in 828 Posts
Default

I wouldn't trust any ammo or brass from Pakistan.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 09-07-2017, 01:33 PM
Redford Redford is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 62
Likes: 168
Liked 34 Times in 18 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by e3mrk View Post
I dont do it but I have read where people drill a hole between the two primer holes and then just reload as usual.
Don't think you can do that the anvil is belt into the case not the primer

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 09-07-2017, 04:14 PM
muddocktor's Avatar
muddocktor muddocktor is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 2,142
Likes: 3,643
Liked 2,535 Times in 1,039 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redford View Post
Don't think you can do that the anvil is belt into the case not the primer

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
Yes, the anvil is built into the case. I guess that after you drilled the flash hole, you could get the rest of the anvil out with a primer pocket uniformer, but that sounds like wayyyy too much work for a common caliber.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-07-2017, 05:28 PM
mikld's Avatar
mikld mikld is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: S. Orygun
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 702
Liked 536 Times in 350 Posts
Default

Yep, Berdan cases ca be reloaded and yes Berdan cases can be converted to Boxer. But in the real world with tons of 9mm brass laying around the only use for Berdan primed cases is to sell for scrap. But some will reload/convert them just fer grins...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-07-2017, 05:50 PM
bigedp51 bigedp51 is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 138
Likes: 3
Liked 106 Times in 55 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMSgt View Post
I wouldn't trust any ammo or brass from Pakistan.
You must be almost as smart, good looking and modest as I am.

Below Pakistan .303 British click........................................bang ammo fired during a rapid fire mad minute.



Bottom line, wait a few minutes after the "CLICK" before opening your bolt.

Aim High Air Force
MAC 69-73
Yokota AFB Japan
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 09-07-2017, 07:32 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 19,945
Likes: 2
Liked 10,581 Times in 6,069 Posts
Default

The ONLY time I felt it was worthwhile to attempt reloading a Berdan-primed case involved a batch of fired 8mm Kropatschek cases. I drilled out the primer pocket to hold a shotshell battery cup primer. It worked fine, as these were low pressure loads.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-07-2017, 08:32 PM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: North Texas
Posts: 551
Likes: 27
Liked 312 Times in 194 Posts
Default

Quote:
SMSgt wrote:
I wouldn't trust any ammo or brass from Pakistan.
Why is that?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-07-2017, 11:02 PM
HCH HCH is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Hancock County Ohio
Posts: 573
Likes: 726
Liked 344 Times in 158 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMSgt View Post
I wouldn't trust any ammo or brass from Pakistan.

Making bullets (sic) in Pakistan.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 09-07-2017, 11:51 PM
jimbo728's Avatar
jimbo728 jimbo728 is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,443
Likes: 2,498
Liked 960 Times in 537 Posts
Default

Best answer to the why not in Pakistan question, for sure.
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-08-2017, 03:43 PM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: North Texas
Posts: 551
Likes: 27
Liked 312 Times in 194 Posts
Default

Quote:
SMSgt wrote:
Making bullets (sic) in Pakistan.
What does this garage shop in the Tribal Regions on the border with Afghanistan have to do with the Pakistani government's ordnance factory?

Last edited by hdwhit; 09-08-2017 at 03:49 PM. Reason: clarify location
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-08-2017, 03:56 PM
hdwhit hdwhit is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: North Texas
Posts: 551
Likes: 27
Liked 312 Times in 194 Posts
Default

Quote:
S&W Rover wrote:
Berdan primed brass could bend or snap the pin of the typical sizing/de-capping die.
That's why even though most of my reloading equipment is RCBS, I have a Lee decapping die with its collet-retained decapping rod.

Also, I sort my brass by headstamp. My miscellaneous box has three Boxer primed cases with POF headstamp. Since it is less than the normal size "batch" that I use, my miscellaneous brass is used for loads I know will be shot were I might not be able to find them again. So far, none of those miscellaneous cases has caused a problem.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #14  
Old 09-08-2017, 04:39 PM
bigedp51 bigedp51 is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 138
Likes: 3
Liked 106 Times in 55 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdwhit View Post
What does this garage shop in the Tribal Regions on the border with Afghanistan have to do with the Pakistani government's ordnance factory?
Surplus ammunition is outdated and sold off because it does not meet military standards. Meaning it may not be 100% reliable.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-08-2017, 05:07 PM
2152hq 2152hq is offline
Member
Pakistan POF Berdan-primed Brass  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,567
Likes: 243
Liked 2,258 Times in 1,128 Posts
Default

POF 303 Brit caliber ammo was pretty common and very cheap some years back. It had a terrible rep for hang fires and duds.
I suspect most of the problems came from poor long term storage in very overheated conditions there or some other place.
But the fact that it came from Pakistan was not lost on the not so happy buyers. Nick names like 'Pride Of Frankenstein',, 'Click-Bang' and others not quite so cutesy names were common.
I've never seen any 9mm POF, but I'm not surprised. Probably other calibers around too.
IIRC there some SMLE's of POF mfg'rd,, #4 rifles(?).

Several ways to convert Berdan to Boxer.
I used to cut the top surface of the fired Berdan primer off with an end mill leaving the side/ring still in the pocket. Then use a LR primer swage to form the pocket to LR size.
That pushed the old portion of the Berdan primer ring to shape still in the pocket and swaged the old Berdan anvil down flat in the bottom of the pocket,,it also usually swaged the anvil mat'l to close up the Berdan flash holes too. Final step was to drill a new flash hole in the center for the LR primer.
I did this with the 8x56RMannlicher (Straight Pull) Brass that was selling for about $2/box of 10rds at the time,,. It was good brass too.

Then later there came commercial boxer primed brass for the caliber, but by that time I had moved on from the shoulder bruisers.

The conversion using a 209 shotshell primer works well too. Keep the loads down.

All pretty much un-necessary these days with the availability of most any case w/ boxer primers
I've never found a local source for Berdan primers and the few I've worked with gave me enough experience with them to know I don't want to use them anymore! Some seem to have no trouble decapping them at all. I never got the hang of it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New primed .38 brass cougar14 Reloading 14 03-23-2017 09:42 PM
Berdan primed brass LostintheOzone Reloading 11 01-07-2014 10:46 PM
WTS: New 9mm brass (some primed)... alank2 Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 3 02-24-2013 10:23 AM
Berdan primed M1 30 Cal. Carbine brass ? swampersand Reloading 7 11-13-2009 08:24 AM
WTB - Berdan brass Trooperdan WANTED to Buy 0 05-13-2009 01:30 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:26 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)