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Old 09-08-2017, 10:27 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
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Default Coated bullets

I cast around 20K bullets a yea.I'm still in love with the regular lube in groove cast bullet but I must admit that I cheated a bit on my first love;I liquid lube with Alox from LS Stuff White Label all my .38 spl WC bullets.
But I'm wondering if the dinosaur part of me shouldn't try polymer coating for all other bullets(9mm,.357,.41,.44Mag and .45)I know,don't give me the ''cleaner shooting'' stuff.I want to discover it by myself.Question is,how fast is the process.Since I need Ks of bullets a year(read almost 400/week),I don't want to get involved with a process that takes 30 min to coat 250bullets.
So how do you guys do it?
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:40 PM
robertrwalsh robertrwalsh is offline
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I buy them that way. If I understand it correctly it is an industrial process that you can't, or at least shouldn't, do at home (Of course I could be wrong. My GF tells me I often am.)
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:56 PM
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I use Bayou Bullets 45 acp coated bullets and they work really well. I have seen people coat their own on you tube videos but don't know how well it works. Might be worth a try.
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Old 09-09-2017, 12:13 AM
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I'm sure someone with actual experience will step in momentarily, but you might look at powder coating. From what I understand, it's pretty easily done and the powder coating seems to be at least as durable as the Hi Tek polymer coating, if not more durable. I'm not sure how they apply the powder coating, but I know that they bake it in an oven after coating which sets and cures the coating. The people that do this seem to swear by the process.
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Old 09-09-2017, 03:57 AM
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I have shot powder coated bullets and bullets coated with Hi-Tek coating and they are not the same. The Hi-Tek coating is much harder while powder coating is more like paint.
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Old 09-09-2017, 06:44 AM
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I have shot powder coated bullets and bullets coated with Hi-Tek coating and they are not the same. The Hi-Tek coating is much harder while powder coating is more like paint.
Actually the hi-tec coating is paint.


It's a polyurethane based paint (a/b mix) that hard.

Powder coating (pc'ing) on the other hand is done with a dry powder that's polyester based that's a softer more forgiving coating.

They both use heat to cure the coating, that's where the similarity between the two different types of coating ends.

I use pc myself, have for 3/4? years now. Simple enough:
A #5 plastic container and airsoft bb's, add powder and bullets and shake for 30 seconds. The static created from the #5 bowl and the bb's cause the powder to stick to the bullets. I pick the bullets ot 1 at a time and set them upright on a tray. Others just dump the coated bullets into a tray made from wire mesh. They get cooked in a cheap oven for 10 minutes @ *400. I cook mine for 15 minutes.

Depending on the tray I can cook around 250 bullets on 1 tray. While the 1st tray is cooking I load the 2nd tray then it's wash/rinse/repeat. It's nothing to coat 1000 bullets in an hour & that's about all I care to do in 1 sitting.

Some of the coated bullets I size after pc'ing them with a lee push thru sizer. Others I don't bother, the pc'ing process adds around .00015" to the bullets diameter per coat. Go heavy and it adds .002" per coat.

Traditional pagan lubing/sizing rituals (tplsr) vs pc'ing

I've found that I get a bit more fps for the same load using pc'd bullets vs tplsr.
It's also easier to find accurate loads with pc'd bullets vs tplsr.
I won't even get into tplsr vs pc when it comes to how much smoke is generated from the loads or how much cleaner the firearms stay.

Velocity:
PC'd bullets tend to have more velocity. Typical results, playing around with pistol powders in a 308. same bullet/powder/rifle/brass/yada-yada-yada. tplsr (ben's red soft lube + 45/45/10 tumble lube + gc). These are 10-shot groups


Same everything including the bullet. this time just a pc coating and no gc (gas check).


Without getting into a long winded tread on why this happens, the watered down version.
tplsr ='s you have to have the right combo of alloy hardness/powder/load pressure to get the bullet to not only obturate. The pressure of the load pressurizes the lube forcing it outward sealing the bbl along with pushing it forward lubing/sealing the forward drive bands. When using the tplsr method of making bullets when I found an accurate load I would change the alloy (harder/softer) and retest the load. I was looking for an increase in velocity while still maintaining the same accuracy. Hence matching the bullets bhn to the lube (hard/soft/viscosity from heat & pressure) which in turn ='s accuracy. Ever wonder why so many people use the bullet/powder combo for their target loads? A picture of different recovered bullets. Was having a discussion on another website about sq vs round lube grooves. Was sent this picture, it shows the compression of the lube groove. You can clearly see the compressed lube grooves compared to the un-shot bullets pictured above them.

Get the alloy/pressure/lube wrong and the bullet flame cuts and accuracy is destroyed.

Long winded anyway, sorry. But this leads to the easier to find an accurate load part of the tplsr vs pc. Same everything again. Had the fiream/molds a long time and tested loads for years using the tplsr method. Was looking for a 25yd load that would hold the x-ring on a nra target ( 1 1/2"). Using 5 different bullets and 6 different powders I found 3 loads that would hold the x-ring using the tplsr bullets. After I started pc'ing bullets I decided to re-test the same loads/bullet combo's This time the only difference was the bullets were pc'd.

Ended up with 13 loads that would do 1 1/2" @ 25yds/nra x-ring. That's
13 vs 3 why?
Because the pc coating is already there sealing the bbl, no need for the right combo along with the coating never burns off or has any viscosity issues.
Hence the top pictures of the 308 targets.
a bullet that had a gas check to help seal the bbl along with a traditional lube in the lube groove and was also completely coated with a tumble lube.
vs a pc'd bullet with no gas check
The pc coating didn't burn off or is affected by pressure/viscosity issues. Which leads to the cleaner burning part of the tplsr vs pc.

Playing around with a 357 using standard 38spl loads, what the revolver looked like after 200 rounds.

No lube burn off, no smoke cloud. The coated bullets can be used/shot indoors/outdoors/anywhere. The pc'ing process coats the base of the bullets also making it a tmj bullet that uses polyester instead of a metal jacket.
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Old 09-09-2017, 06:53 AM
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Default I'll still use....

I'll still use lube-in-groove bullets, but Hytek coating is what I buy when I want bullets. I had one experience with powder coated bullets and it wasn't good. I can burn through 1000 bullets pretty quick, but it seemed those powder coated ones took forever to get rid of. I MAY still have some, but I'm not looking for them.

I don't mind lube in groove at an outdoor range with a little breeze, but I get negative vibes when I shoot them in an indoor range.

I think that coated bullets are a natural extension of the old Nyclad bullets that were ahead of their time.

Order of non jacketed bullets I like...

Hy tek coated

Plated

Lube-in-groove

powder coated (last resort)
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Old 09-09-2017, 04:05 PM
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Been casting my own for about 35yrs. I was really slow to coated. Since i started coating, i doubt i go back to lubed. It takes a bit of time, but you are getting basically a plated bullet for lead bullet cost.
Hi-Tek is probably faster, but a bit more cost. PC can be more hands on but you bake only once. HT meeds to bake twice, but less bullet handling. My conv pizza oven will do 250-300 at a time. Worth it to me time wise, but i am only shooting about 250 a week.
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Old 09-09-2017, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
I have shot powder coated bullets and bullets coated with Hi-Tek coating and they are not the same. The Hi-Tek coating is much harder while powder coating is more like paint.
Its going to depend on which powder you use, but i have found most pc is actially harder than HT. i can get to 2000fps with pc, about 1500fps with HT before accuracy degrades.
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Old 09-09-2017, 05:24 PM
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Thanks all of you who took time to answer/explain.You gave me the itch to explore something new(we casters are by definition ''explorers'').Think I'll start looking for an oven.Only problem is my shop is getting smaller and smaller as I keep adding new experiments to try!!!!
Qc
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Old 09-09-2017, 05:41 PM
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Go over to the cast bullet forum and read about shake and bake coating. It's simple, easy to do and it works. I'm shooting soft bullets cast from straight range recovery alloy coated with red Harbor Freight powder coating in my polygonal rifled H&K USP 45 with great success. Lubed bullets with the same alloy are a disaster. Having said that, I must add that it is a slow process. Tumble, stand bullets on end in a tray using forceps, bake, repeat.

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Old 09-09-2017, 07:09 PM
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If conventionally lubed bullets don't work, there may be problems other than alloy composition.
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:21 AM
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If conventionally lubed bullets don't work, there may be problems other than alloy composition.
Might be, but they work fine in five other 45's. I did vary size and lube with no success. This just seemed to be the easiest response and it worked.

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Old 09-10-2017, 08:27 AM
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I've had no experience with the painted or coated cast bullets, but if your conventionally lubed bullets worked well in other guns, then you likely took the best route. From what little exposure I've had with H&Ks, it appears the chambers might be a little tighter than other pistols; don't know about bore dimensions.

As for conventional lubes, particularly in handguns, I've found that changing them usually has the least effect of any of the variables we commonly deal with, unless extreme heat or extreme cold becomes a factor.
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:54 AM
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Which Hi Tek bullets are the best? factory made
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Old 09-10-2017, 11:58 AM
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You don't have to break the bank to try out your first coated loads.
You can buy as little as 100 bullets in 115 or 124 grains .

My first target load test with six different powders with a 125gr
coated bullet had a difference of just 19 fps in all the loads but...

the groups went from 1" all the way up to 2.66" and one that I
logged as a "Shotgun" grouping. (SG)
It took me a lot of loads and time with different OAL, fps and bullet
dia. (.356-358) to find out what my pistol liked.

They MAY or may NOT work out for you....
good luck.
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
If conventionally lubed bullets don't work, there may be problems other than alloy composition.
It isn't about cast not working but coated working better. Less crud, less smoke, both good things if there is no accuracy loss.
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
You don't have to break the bank to try out your first coated loads.
You can buy as little as 100 bullets in 115 or 124 grains .

My first target load test with six different powders with a 125gr
coated bullet had a difference of just 19 fps in all the loads but...

the groups went from 1" all the way up to 2.66" and one that I
logged as a "Shotgun" grouping. (SG)
It took me a lot of loads and time with different OAL, fps and bullet
dia. (.356-358) to find out what my pistol liked.

They MAY or may NOT work out for you....
good luck.
The variation could have been a size issue? Making your own allows you to control final size. Personally I haven't seen a degradation in accuracy. In some guns/calibers, accuracy was improved. Example, was full power 10mm in a stock G20. My groups are definitely smaller with coated vs lubed, both sized the same.
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:26 PM
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Default Hytek may be more like paint.....

...but I tells ya. The powder coated bullets I've bought are a thick coat that can chip off. Hytek LOOKS more like a varnish, smooth and thin. I've had lousy powder coat but never a bad Hy Tek bullet. I think the powder coat process may be a little more involved and subject to improper mixing, applying or curing. I've just had such a good time with Hytek, I don't have any reason to get powder coat. Somebody please come back and tell how good powder coating is so I can give it another try sometimes.
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
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...but I tells ya. The powder coated bullets I've bought are a thick coat that can chip off. Hytek LOOKS more like a varnish, smooth and thin. I've had lousy powder coat but never a bad Hy Tek bullet. I think the powder coat process may be a little more involved and subject to improper mixing, applying or curing. I've just had such a good time with Hytek, I don't have any reason to get powder coat. Somebody please come back and tell how good powder coating is so I can give it another try sometimes.
There are powder coated & powder coated. I make my own, pound them flat, no chipping of the coating. Process is everything, powder coated or HT. Get it wrong, the coating will chip or rub off.
With PC, it's about the powder & bake temp/time. With HT it is a proper mix of the components & bake temp/time. So actually easier to screw up HT IMO. Powder is just shake & bake. So only thing to mess up is use the wrong powder, all will not work, or bake too short or too cool a temp. The recommendation, & it has worked for me, is 15m in a preheated 400deg oven. The oven temp MUST be verified with an oven therm so that you get 400-420deg, 15-20m bake time. More than 20m you are likely to burn the coating some, less it won't cure & stick.
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:34 PM
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I hav been casting for about 40 years using alox, various kinds of lube, soft and hi temp. Have tried the spray on paint. I do not use harbor freight powder having tried it and found it lacking. Powder is obtained from powder by the pound, it's of higher quality and coats better. Cheap broiler used to cook with. basically the method is described in a previous post. it adds about 2/thousandths to the diameter. results? i have pushed 250grain out of a 375winchester rifle to about 1850fps, no issues at all, no leading, clean barrel.
in a handgun using a 310grain lee mould for 44caliber, i pushed that bullet at over 1200fps with a thompson contender. barrel looked like it hadn't had anything fired in it. the bullet went through seven gallon water fillled milk jugs bounced off a piece of plywood and was recovered. Looked like i could use the same bullet again. Your speed is mainly limited in the process by how big your oven is. Mind will do about 70 at a time at 15minutes. so, 4x70 i am doing 280 an hour. would be faster if i had a bigger oven. I live in phx, and it's hot. bullets store well, non messy like alox or lube in the heat. I can adjust somewhat the diameter coming out of the mold by the alloy, and with the powder coating get right to the diameter i want meaning no sizing. an example is a .452 bullet dropped from the mold, powder coated, it goest to .454 which is what i was after. You can use gas checks if wanted and i have powder coated with those on the bullet, but i just dont see any leading without them. I have done this with 358bullets up to 45/70 bullets. a pound of that good powder goes a long way, you don't need much if you shake them properly. i use as a container for that one of those plastic containers luncheon meat comes in. I dont want to go back to lube. i have a bright red for some 41magnum bullets i cast, a loaded round looks like my wifes lipstick container. sometimes i load red, white, and blue alternating just to be patriotic. typically use different colors for different weights. i do preheat, and i do check the temp other than what the toaster is saying. as another poster said, you can check how well you did by taking a powder coated bullet and hitting is flat with a hammer. done right it isn't gonna peel. this can be very exciting technology as in deep hollow points powder coated. they just really work well

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Old 09-11-2017, 03:42 PM
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check these 170grainer 41magnum various bullet types
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:46 PM
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check these out
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:50 PM
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some 265grain 41magnum
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:54 PM
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310grain 44magnum
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:19 PM
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PC allows you to use lead from unknown sources as the powder coating protects the bbl from the softer than usual lead. I have a lot of range pickup lead, wheel weights and soft lead and I can use it all. I've coated .45 bullets and .308 too with good results.
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