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09-21-2017, 06:23 PM
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Is it OK
Is it OK to load down 38 special all the way to Long Colt levels? I know the low end of 38 special load data is pretty light, but is like some really powder-puff loads, and I don't want to trim cases to Long Colt length.
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09-21-2017, 06:32 PM
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You don't want to download a round so low where you stick a bullet in the barrel.
The .38 Long Colt at top ends will do well over 700 fps. There are plenty of .38 Special loads that will safely do that and below.
Why do you want to do this? There might be a good solution.
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Last edited by ArchAngelCD; 09-21-2017 at 06:35 PM.
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09-21-2017, 06:45 PM
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Try a 125 gr. cast lead bullet at 650-700 FPS. You can find data in the "cowboy" loads section of the Hodgdon giveaway loading data phamplets. If this isn't light enough, you probably need to find a smaller gun. This is roughly .32 SWL power level.
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09-21-2017, 07:03 PM
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The direct answer to your question is yes. You can safely load the .38 Special as light as you like, but as ArchAngelCD points out, the lower limit is where you start leaving bullets in the bore. This not merely inconvenient, but dangerous, as it can lead to a burst barrel or even a wrecked gun. M29's advice regarding cowboy-level loads is sound - I second it. Good luck and happy shooting !
Larry
Last edited by lebomm; 09-21-2017 at 07:06 PM.
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09-21-2017, 07:04 PM
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You might find a Lyman load manual useful. Lots of loads, many of them light.
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09-21-2017, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M29since14
Try a 125 gr. cast lead bullet at 650-700 FPS. You can find data in the "cowboy" loads section of the Hodgdon giveaway loading data phamplets. If this isn't light enough, you probably need to find a smaller gun. This is roughly .32 SWL power level.
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My 5th edition Hodgdon Cowboy data lists the slowest 125 gr 38 special as 2.5 gr Clays@810fps. Are you using a newer edition?
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09-21-2017, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD
You don't want to download a round so low where you stick a bullet in the barrel.
The .38 Long Colt at top ends will do well over 700 fps. There are plenty of .38 Special loads that will safely do that and below.
Why do you want to do this? There might be a good solution.
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My wife doesn't mind shooting the 125 gr 38 special rounds I've trimmed to LC length @ about 650 fps. She doesn't like shooting any 38 special loads except maybe the minimum Trail Boss loads, but they'd be the upper end of what she likes.
As soon as I find a good deal on a 32 H&R magnum pistol, I'm going to buy her one. I had one all lined up and it fell through. The 38 long colts are about the same, and cheaper in the short term to get her shooting. So far it's the only thing she likes.
I want her to be comfortable shooting something she likes. I don't mind loading Long Colt rounds, I just don't have a lot of brass, and it's labor intensive to trim 38 special down with my hand trimmer.
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09-21-2017, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry
You might find a Lyman load manual useful. Lots of loads, many of them light.
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The only Lyman manual I have is #44. It has promising loads, but they are 121 grains, and powders I don't have on hand. I'll keep looking.
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09-21-2017, 07:37 PM
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One thing to be very careful of is to ONLY use lead bullets for your super light loads. Because copper has a much higher coefficient of friction that lead and trying to load a plated or jacketed bullet too light can really increase the potential for producing a squib.
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09-21-2017, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123
One thing to be very careful of is to ONLY use lead bullets for your super light loads. Because copper has a much higher coefficient of friction that lead and trying to load a plated or jacketed bullet too light can really increase the potential for producing a squib.
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Thanks. That's what I've been doing with most of my 38 special, and all trimmed to long colt length. Well, either cast or Hi-Tek coated.
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09-21-2017, 07:47 PM
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Hodgdon Powder Trail Boss
Bullet Diameter .358" 125gr lead
C.O.L. 1.445"
Starting Load
Grains 3.0
Velocity (ft/s) 753
Pressure 11,600 PSI
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09-21-2017, 07:57 PM
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You might try looking into hollow base wadcutters. They are basically set right down to the case. No bullet is sticking out of the case. They cut nice round holes in targets and most use very light loads. Look it up 38 special in hbwc rounds something like 2.5 grains of hp38. Very nice enjoyable round to shoot.
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09-21-2017, 09:22 PM
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Trail Boss powder is a good choice for super light target loads. For wadcutters, I have used 231/HP38 at 3.0 to 3.2 for many years. The equivalent Bullseye load is 2.8.
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09-21-2017, 09:36 PM
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If you want a really light, powder puff load, try loading a single round ball in the case, with a light powder charge.
I used to do that with .44 Spl and my Charter Bulldog was like shooting a .22 with these loads.
TBH, in .38 Spl, I'm happy with HBWCs or Hornady 140 grain Cowboy bullets loaded around 700 fps, for a mild load.
Makes the old Chief's Special more fun to shoot.
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09-21-2017, 10:38 PM
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OK guys, bear with me on this, and please let me know if I am in error on my thinking. If a 38 Long Colt round is safe to shoot in a 7.5" barrel without fear of sticking in the barrel, it should also be safe in a 2" or 4" barrel. So if I take a Long Colt round and chronograph the muzzle velocity, and then start with a minimum load 38 special, and ladder test down in charge until I reach the same muzzle velocity, wouldn't that round be just as safe in the same revolver? The pressure curve might be a little different, but from a 4" or less barrel, the bullet should still be accelerating somewhat as it reaches the end of the barrel
Last edited by Mr_Flintstone; 09-21-2017 at 10:39 PM.
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09-21-2017, 11:00 PM
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Lyman 49 has light loads jacketed and cast, varying weights.
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09-22-2017, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Flintstone
My wife doesn't mind shooting the 125 gr 38 special rounds I've trimmed to LC length @ about 650 fps. She doesn't like shooting any 38 special loads except maybe the minimum Trail Boss loads, but they'd be the upper end of what she likes.
As soon as I find a good deal on a 32 H&R magnum pistol, I'm going to buy her one. I had one all lined up and it fell through. The 38 long colts are about the same, and cheaper in the short term to get her shooting. So far it's the only thing she likes.
I want her to be comfortable shooting something she likes. I don't mind loading Long Colt rounds, I just don't have a lot of brass, and it's labor intensive to trim 38 special down with my hand trimmer.
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Hodgdon lists a 125gr LRN bullet at 625 fps to 770 fps for the 38 Long Colt. With a 125gr LRN bullet in the 38 Spl the velocities are quite a bit higher from the mid 800s to well over 1000 fps.
I agree you should be able to download your 38 Spl loads to ~650/700 fps and Lyman supplies data.
With a 125gr lead bullet here are 3 loads listed as Minimum.
2.5gr 700x - 647 fps
2.8gr Bullseye - 690 fps
3.2gr W231 - 693 fps
Those are the starting loads supplied by Lyman and any of the three should serve you need safely.
Good luck...
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09-22-2017, 01:36 AM
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I don't shoot powder puff loads in my 6" barrels........
I do however shoot low vel. loads out of my J frame snub nose
where I feel the chance of a Squib is not as likely.
I have had a lead 158gr RN as low as 505-534 for a 527 average but feel better
with this bullet doing 570fps to be on the safe side.
Powders from Bullseye to the slow HS-6 will work in the 2" barrel..........
and be as slow as you need.
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09-22-2017, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed
I don't shoot powder puff loads in my 6" barrels........
I do however shoot low vel. loads out of my J frame snub nose
where I feel the chance of a Squib is not as likely.
I have had a lead 158gr RN as low as 505-534 for a 527 average but feel better
with this bullet doing 570fps to be on the safe side.
Powders from Bullseye to the slow HS-6 will work in the 2" barrel..........
and be as slow as you need.
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I can not agree at all with using HS-6 in this application. HS-6 performs better at the upper end if the pressure range. Using it for very light loads increases the likelihood of a squib load or plenty of unburned powder delivering terrible results.
HS-6 is a hard to ignite slow ball powder that is not right for this job IMO.
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09-22-2017, 06:00 AM
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What powders, other than Trail Boss, have you used? What charges? What gun are we talking about?
A very lightly-crimped 158 or 148 (seated to the groove in the case of the WC, not flush) with 2.8 of Bullseye is just as light as you please.
Other considerations--does your wife suffer from arthritis? Has she ever had a bad experience with guns? Have you considered the possibility that she just doesn't like shooting, and doesn't want to tell you?
Also--why not a .22? There are tons to choose from. One of the most interesting I ever got to shoot was a Model 63 (I think)--gave new meaning to "no recoil". There are also Ruger SW-22s, Mk III/IVs, SW Victories, custom 1911-22s, 617s...anything you can imagine.
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09-22-2017, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A
What powders, other than Trail Boss, have you used? What charges? What gun are we talking about?
A very lightly-crimped 158 or 148 (seated to the groove in the case of the WC, not flush) with 2.8 of Bullseye is just as light as you please.
Other considerations--does your wife suffer from arthritis? Has she ever had a bad experience with guns? Have you considered the possibility that she just doesn't like shooting, and doesn't want to tell you?
Also--why not a .22? There are tons to choose from. One of the most interesting I ever got to shoot was a Model 63 (I think)--gave new meaning to "no recoil". There are also Ruger SW-22s, Mk III/IVs, SW Victories, custom 1911-22s, 617s...anything you can imagine.
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My wife isn't enthused with or opposed to shooting. Kinda indifferent. I let her decide when/if she wants to shoot, and what she wants to shoot. She has a .25 acp that she shot a few times. She doesn't like it because it's too small. I have a Mark IiI that I shoot frequently. She doesn't like it... It ugly she says. The one thing she did want was a Taurus Model 85 38 special. She likes it, but doesn't care for the flash and bang from the .38 special. I've loaded a variety of Long Colt, and a few Short Colt rounds with Hodgdon powders, and she likes anything around the 650-700 fps range. She didn't like any 148 HBWC rounds that ive loaded. This is what lead me to think that she might like a 32 H&R magnum. I'm going to buy her one (if she likes it) when funds are available, but in the meantime, I figured loading at the level she's comfortable with was the best option. I may just have to buy some LC brass until I can get her a .32 H&R.
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09-22-2017, 07:28 AM
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A few years back I discovered that IMR SR7625 is VERY position sensitive in a 38 special case. As expected I loaded my first test loads with the recommended starting charge of this powder. When I tested them at the range I found that if the barrel was pointed down prior to firing the resulting velocity was only 400 fps, with a plated 125 grain bullet. Point the barrel up prior to firing and the resulting velocity was 710 fps. BTW, this was using a 4 inch model 67-1 and I consider myself very lucky I didn't squib the barrel with those barrel down shots. However it does indicate that if you use a lead bullet you should be able to load in the range of 600 fps without any risk of a squib.
PS; odd thing was those loads had no observable variation in the point of impact at 30 feet even with that wide swing in velocity and the 400 fps shots felt like I was shooting my 617. So I do understand the appeal of loading light for someone who is recoil sensitive.
PPS; I will also note that I do NOT use SR7625 for any of my revolver loads, after discovering the degree of position sensitivity I change to loading with Vihtavouri 3N37. While it isn't cheap it is also not at all position sensitive and it is a great metering powder and clean shooting powder with superb accuracy.
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09-27-2017, 07:53 PM
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I've drastically....
I've drastically downloaded .38 special in a snub model 10 without coming close to sticking a bullet in the barrel. Jacketed bullets are bonded better nowadays so that losing a jacket in the barrel should be less of a problem.
I wish I had some data to share, but this was in the early 80's so I don't have anything to show.
I remember a friend loaded some 9mm bullets with really light loads in ,38 cases and they 'spit' out instead of shot.
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Last edited by rwsmith; 09-27-2017 at 07:56 PM.
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09-27-2017, 08:12 PM
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I think I've found a solution. I picked up some 90 grain round nose. Low side load data shows that the recoil should be like a 32 long. I'm going to make some up this weekend.
Last edited by Mr_Flintstone; 09-27-2017 at 08:14 PM.
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