is H4227 and IMR4227 the same? Do they load the same?

Go to the Hodgdon web site and send them an email. Hodgdon distributes both of them.
Best guess - they're one and the same.

I use a fair amount of IMR 4227 in 44mag. I have never had to change a load (I have a couple go to loads), going from the "old" IMR to the "new" IMR.

I never used H4227, but supposedly there is/was a time when the new IMR is/was H4227.

Almost every book I have specs identical loads for H & IMR for MOST, but not all loads.

Clear as mud!

Hodgdon distributes both! My recollection is that Hodgdon announced sometime after acquiring the distribution rights for IMR powders that going forward from that time IMR-4227 and H-4227 would be identical. Before then H-4227 had a slightly faster burning rate and data was different.

With older manuals it was perfectly acceptable to load IMR-4227 using H-4227 data, but not the other way around.

Interestingly Hodgdon does not list H-4227 in the powder descriptions of the 2017 Annual Manual. In spite of this H-4227 is shown in the loading data pages and IMR-4227 is not, with very few exceptions. Just skimming the data, in the one case where I could find both IMR and H-4227 data for a cartridge/bullet the data was identical.

To be safe, if you have either of these powders in the old packaging, before the black plastic bottles, I would refer to older manuals for data rather than assume the two are interchangeable!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

From what I've read around the net, the old H4227 is the new IMR4227. When Hodgdon bought up IMR, they discontinued the original formula IMR4227 and renamed the H4227 to IMR4227 to consolidate powder lines carried.

Do your own research on this to satisfy yourself or send a query to Hodgdon about the loads shown on their data website and ask about this.

Hodgdon insists that H4895 and IMR4895 are NOT the same powder. I believe that they are very similar, but not EXACTLY the same.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

No.


The numbers are the same, but the powders are not. If you want to prove this to yourself, just look at any of the recent reloading manuals that still list both powders with the same cartridge, like Hornady #8 (released in 2010, several years after the Hodgdon acquisition of IMR) and for loads like 357 Magnum, it shows both powders but with different amounts producing the same velocity and different maximum loads.

When in doubt, always check your reloading manuals or the powder company's on line site. I check my manual before reloading to be sure I'm using the proper amount of powder for the bullet I want it to push.
I'm sure you've heard, "measure twice before cutting," well, that's true for reloading too, check twice before dropping the powder.

I don't believe any performance difference is significant. I made up some .300 Savage lead bullet loads several months ago using 23 grains of IMR4227 (the original duPont IMR powder) and some older H4227. While the powders did not "feel" the same and did not use the same powder measure setting, the average MV was essentially identical, around 2000 ft/sec, as fired from my Remington Model 81.

My Aug-2014 communications with Hodgdon on it:

BD37:
I only see IMR 4227 available in the stores anymore but your on-line reloading center seems to only have data for H4227.
Are I4227 & H4227 the same now?
I'm loading for a 460 Magnum.


HDG:
They are not exactly the same but you can use the same loading data using the starting load and working your way up watching for pressure signs.


BD37:
I got to looking around at your data & while you say they are not the same can you explain why some of your online reloading data shows it is exactly the same?
{357Mag (125gr & 158gr HDY XTP) & 44Mag (240gr Nos JHP -see attached-) in the rifle section}


HDG:
- No reply back -

.

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Waiting for the break of day

In the 1980 A commercial loader was adding powder to his press and two cans of H-4227 (from the same lot) were different colors. A call to Hodgdon with the lot # and he was told they had run out of H-4227 and finished the packaging batch with IMR-4227. This was reported to happen all the time. The powders were the same, but from different factories, and you could expect normal Lot to Lot variations. Canister IMR 4227 is a powder that's been around a long time. (Harry Pope used it in his personal target rifles!) But back when DuPont made all their own powders it was far more consistent from Lot to Lot!

We rate powder energy in weight (e.g. 6.2 grains) but most loaders load by volume (a powder measurer or scoops). As long as you are using the same weight H-4227 & IMR-4227 put out the same energy, you just might have to adjust you powder measurer. (Over the decades Harry Pope bought several 4 pound cans of IMR 4227 and checked the weight and volume of 4227, but never needed to change the setting on his Lyman 50 powder measurer!)

Ivan

From my previous posting above, you might gather that 4227 (any type) is also an excellent propellant for medium-velocity CF rifle lead bullet loads. I have used it for lead bullet loads in .30-30, .300 Savage, and .30-'06 with great success. It works OK in .30 Carbine, but its bulk density is too low to get full velocity .30 Carbine loads. A .30 Carbine case full of 4227, with a 110 grain bullet when fired in a carbine, barely breaks 1700 ft/sec. But it does function OK. I prefer 2400 or H110 for .30 Carbine.

I know the history of both DuPont's IMR and Hodgdons, but never found any reasons why both companies numbered their powders the same? Anyone know why? 4227, 4350, 4895, etc. obviously competed with each other, but it has always been a point of confusion in the reloading industry and many hand loaders interchanged them. Even today, many reloading dealers will tell you that both powders with and without "H" are the same.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

When I reload I never go from memory, I go to my reloading manuals or my personal notes for powder/bullet/primer combinations.I never assume that the same number powder is the same from different manufacturers. I know 296 and H110 are the exact same, but I look in the books any way. I guess old habits die hard. I've never had a Kaboom in my almost 40 years of reloading, I guess I'll keep doing what I'm doing.