Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Reloading
o

Notices

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-28-2017, 07:49 PM
Goodbrew Goodbrew is offline
Member
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 14
Likes: 11
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default K38 120 power factor

Hi Guys
I have a K38 6" barrel and I'm considering using it for a Service pistol match that specifies minimum 120 power factor.

I intend using a 135gr BNWC with around 4.0 gr WST to achieve 900 fps which will give a power factor of 121.

My question is if this load will be too hot for the K38 I'm certainly not keen on long term damage.

Thoughts please
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-28-2017, 10:27 PM
OldChief OldChief is offline
Member
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 3,979
Liked 2,918 Times in 803 Posts
Default

I tried to locate some data for the WST powder and bullet you're planning on loading but learned that WST is a shotgun powder. Frankly, I wouldn't use it for loading .38 Special due to the fact that it is designed for use in shot shells. I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people when it comes to reloading who may offer more information but basically, with a lack of official data for using WST for pistol reloading, I would definitely shy away from it.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-28-2017, 11:10 PM
muddocktor's Avatar
muddocktor muddocktor is offline
Member
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 5,346
Likes: 11,606
Liked 9,018 Times in 3,192 Posts
Default

Looking at the Hodgdon online loading data, they show a load of 3.5 - 3.9 grains of WST for a 140 grain cowboy load. Since your bullet is 5 grains lighter than the one they used, I don't see a problem with 4.0 grains of WST. And that is under the regular 38 Special heading, not 38 Special +P.

And I wouldn't think that load would hurt a K frame 38 Special either. That's a pretty robust frame for 38 Special.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 09-28-2017, 11:52 PM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldChief View Post
I tried to locate some data for the WST powder and bullet you're planning on loading but learned that WST is a shotgun powder. Frankly, I wouldn't use it for loading .38 Special due to the fact that it is designed for use in shot shells.....
Many powders used in handgun cartridges are actually designed as shotgun powders. One of the most famous is Unique. Don't forget Clays. Add Red Dot, Green Dot and all the Dots. Add HS-5, HS-6 and HS-7 to the list too. Many many powders serve double duty.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 09-29-2017, 12:04 AM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodbrew View Post
Hi Guys
I have a K38 6" barrel and I'm considering using it for a Service pistol match that specifies minimum 120 power factor.

I intend using a 135gr BNWC with around 4.0 gr WST to achieve 900 fps which will give a power factor of 121.

My question is if this load will be too hot for the K38 I'm certainly not keen on long term damage.

Thoughts please
Regardless of what you decide do not load an estimated power factor of 121 when the target is 120. Slight variations in your loading might get your ammo DQd. I suggest you load to 130 to give yourself a safety margin. If I were loading ammo for a 120 PF I would load a Hornady 140gr lead bullet or similar bullet to 925 fps and practice a lot before the match with them. W231/HP-38 will easily get you there without going to max pressure and not over stress your revolver. There are many powders that will do the job.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 09-29-2017, 12:36 AM
D Brown's Avatar
D Brown D Brown is offline
SWCA Member
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 3,158
Likes: 21,164
Liked 7,109 Times in 1,990 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodbrew View Post
Hi Guys
I have a K38 6" barrel and I'm considering using it for a Service pistol match that specifies minimum 120 power factor.

I intend using a 135gr BNWC with around 4.0 gr WST to achieve 900 fps which will give a power factor of 121.

My question is if this load will be too hot for the K38 I'm certainly not keen on long term damage.

Thoughts please
I'm not familiar with the rules for "Service Pistol", but if it's anything like USPSA, you're literally shooting yourself in the foot planning to set up a load that close to the power floor. It would be a much better plan to go for a load somewhere around 125,000, that way, if you run across a slow chronograph at a match, or adverse atmospheric conditions, you'll likely still make the 120,000 power floor.

Back in the old days when the USPSA Major Power Factor was 175,000, I always loaded for 182,000. I never got downgraded to minor in a match. A lot of people who tried to cut it closer to the major cutoff point ended up getting downgraded to Minor Power Factor, more than once.
__________________
Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

Last edited by D Brown; 09-29-2017 at 02:31 AM. Reason: Edit to correct spelling on "AutoCorrect"
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 09-29-2017, 01:11 AM
Kiwi cop's Avatar
Kiwi cop Kiwi cop is offline
Member
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Taranaki, New Zealand
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 4,282
Liked 6,015 Times in 1,304 Posts
Default

I shoot the same service match here in New Zealand that they do in Australia. In fact my only international match was a service pistol match I shot in Queensland back in 2003.

The load I have finally settled on is 4.2 gn of Tightgroup under a 148 gn jacketed hollow based wadcutter.

While I cannot recall exact velocities when chronographed (and my diary is in my range bag locked away in the boot of my car for a match tomorrow) I do recall the PF came in at around 130.

This gives a comfortable safety margin for small variations in loads as well as for testing on a cold day. (And if anyone wants to know what that is like ask some of the Aussie IPSC shooters who worked up good loads in South Australia a few years ago to shoot in our Nationals and found they failed to make PF).

As for the K frame strength, well they did make the M19 .357 Magnum on the K frame and that worked. Given that 120 PF does not even make +P pressures I see no issues.

Last edited by Kiwi cop; 09-29-2017 at 01:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 09-29-2017, 01:18 AM
Goodbrew Goodbrew is offline
Member
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 14
Likes: 11
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Good advice guys thanks !

WST is a very good pistol powder as stated above just a little slower than 231.

Looks like the K38 should be OK I'll build up to it slowley and see how it goes speed wise.

Regards to all
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 09-29-2017, 01:57 AM
Wise_A Wise_A is offline
Banned
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,121
Likes: 2,661
Liked 4,324 Times in 1,793 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldChief View Post
I tried to locate some data for the WST powder and bullet you're planning on loading but learned that WST is a shotgun powder. Frankly, I wouldn't use it for loading .38 Special due to the fact that it is designed for use in shot shells. I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people when it comes to reloading who may offer more information but basically, with a lack of official data for using WST for pistol reloading, I would definitely shy away from it.
WST is used all the time for handgun reloading. There's load data all over the place. What there isn't a lot of data for is the 135-grain lead bullet--it's a bit of an oddball. Most .38 Spl data is clustered around the 125-gr (itsy-bitsy roundnose), 148-gr (wadcutters of various designs), and 158-gr (semiwads), with a few 200-gr "thunderhead"-type semiwads.

Many faster pistol powders are also used in shotgunning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D Brown
I'm not familial with the rules for "Service Pistol", but if it's anything like USPSA, you're literally shooting yourself in the foot planning to set up a load that close to the power floor. It would be a much better plan to go for a load somewhere around 125,000, that way, if you run across a slow chronograph at a match, or adverse atmospheric conditions, you'll likely still make the 120,000 power floor.
This is good advice.

I think you'd have a much easier time with a 148-gr or 158-gr bullet. I would go to the 158 LSWC. Virtually any suitable powder would have no problem getting you to the 800 fps required to make 127 PF.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 09-29-2017, 06:56 AM
Forrest r Forrest r is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 171
Liked 1,636 Times in 681 Posts
Default

You've received excellent advice, 148gr to 158gr bullets will easily get you to the promised land with wst.

WST is a god choice for standard/target loads for the 38spl. Meters well, burns clean and is extremely consistent from shot to shot.

Real world #'s are always different than the book #'s. You looked at a reloading manual that uses a 7.7" test bbl

test bbl vs revolver ='s apples vs oranges

You will loose velocity because of:
shorter bbl length
around 10fps for every 1/1000th of cylinder gap
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 09-29-2017, 10:23 AM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is offline
Member
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 8,158
Likes: 3,605
Liked 5,199 Times in 2,172 Posts
Default

My standard .38 load for ICORE and IDPA is 4.3 gr HP38 under 158gr plated. I typically load 5 or 6 thousand a year. Around 128PF. No smoke from a plated bullet on rapidfire.
Thousands of IDPA shooter use HP38 or similar under 158gr bullets, so there is no need to reinvent the load.
And as everyone has told you, your proposed load with WST is too light. I have used WST in a 133PF .38 load (worked fine)and prefer HP38. Chrono your load in your gun to verify PF and don't rely on guessing.
__________________
Science plus Art

Last edited by OKFC05; 09-29-2017 at 10:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 09-29-2017, 10:34 AM
Culina's Avatar
Culina Culina is offline
Member
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DPRK (CA)
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 367
Liked 1,273 Times in 466 Posts
Default

if your goal is a PF of 121, much sure you keep the rounds in your warm pocket before they are tested
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 09-29-2017, 11:08 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
Member
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 30min SE Montreal
Posts: 2,026
Likes: 150
Liked 1,540 Times in 841 Posts
Default

Your load seems very mild to me...and I'm no Hot Rodder!Those K frames can take the pressure to reach your intended goal.
Qc
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-30-2017, 11:33 AM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
US Veteran
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,376
Likes: 3,183
Liked 12,712 Times in 5,669 Posts
Default

I like my standard load and a warmer one that can be used on cold days.

Not all matches are on nice warm, 74 degree days.

In my early days I did not place in a trap shoot due to under powered ammo. The morning shoot was in 39 degree weather
and I left my ammo out in the car. Rookie move...
the 2 3/4 Dram needed to be switched out to 3 Dram to break all the birds.

Same goes with rifle and pistol ammo.

Just making power factor is taking a chance.
Good shooting.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-30-2017, 11:43 AM
H Richard's Avatar
H Richard H Richard is offline
US Veteran
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Central IL
Posts: 22,758
Likes: 18,437
Liked 22,313 Times in 8,245 Posts
Default

Barrel length and air temperature can affect loads. Be sure what you end up with will make 130 PF consistently to be safe. 231 is my standby and depending on bullet (I normally use 158) will easily make the 130.
__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-17-2017, 10:52 PM
Joe4d Joe4d is offline
Member
K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor K38 120 power factor  
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 273
Likes: 42
Liked 165 Times in 94 Posts
Default

WST is actually reverse temp sensitive. Slows down in higher temps.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Power Factor Range for M&P Pro Series 9mm J. R. Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 4 06-28-2016 10:04 PM
Different spring for lower power factor 9mm loads? DIYguy Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 8 05-01-2016 10:20 AM
Power Factor 625-10scc Ammo 4 06-06-2012 10:25 PM
Reduce Power Factor TwoPoundPull Reloading 9 02-16-2011 04:14 AM
.38 Special IDPA Power Factor Recipe Jeepster Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting 6 04-20-2009 09:24 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:32 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)