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09-28-2017, 07:49 PM
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K38 120 power factor
Hi Guys
I have a K38 6" barrel and I'm considering using it for a Service pistol match that specifies minimum 120 power factor.
I intend using a 135gr BNWC with around 4.0 gr WST to achieve 900 fps which will give a power factor of 121.
My question is if this load will be too hot for the K38 I'm certainly not keen on long term damage.
Thoughts please
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09-28-2017, 10:27 PM
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I tried to locate some data for the WST powder and bullet you're planning on loading but learned that WST is a shotgun powder. Frankly, I wouldn't use it for loading .38 Special due to the fact that it is designed for use in shot shells. I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people when it comes to reloading who may offer more information but basically, with a lack of official data for using WST for pistol reloading, I would definitely shy away from it.
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09-28-2017, 11:10 PM
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Looking at the Hodgdon online loading data, they show a load of 3.5 - 3.9 grains of WST for a 140 grain cowboy load. Since your bullet is 5 grains lighter than the one they used, I don't see a problem with 4.0 grains of WST. And that is under the regular 38 Special heading, not 38 Special +P.
And I wouldn't think that load would hurt a K frame 38 Special either. That's a pretty robust frame for 38 Special.
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09-28-2017, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldChief
I tried to locate some data for the WST powder and bullet you're planning on loading but learned that WST is a shotgun powder. Frankly, I wouldn't use it for loading .38 Special due to the fact that it is designed for use in shot shells.....
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Many powders used in handgun cartridges are actually designed as shotgun powders. One of the most famous is Unique. Don't forget Clays. Add Red Dot, Green Dot and all the Dots. Add HS-5, HS-6 and HS-7 to the list too. Many many powders serve double duty.
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09-29-2017, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodbrew
Hi Guys
I have a K38 6" barrel and I'm considering using it for a Service pistol match that specifies minimum 120 power factor.
I intend using a 135gr BNWC with around 4.0 gr WST to achieve 900 fps which will give a power factor of 121.
My question is if this load will be too hot for the K38 I'm certainly not keen on long term damage.
Thoughts please
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Regardless of what you decide do not load an estimated power factor of 121 when the target is 120. Slight variations in your loading might get your ammo DQd. I suggest you load to 130 to give yourself a safety margin. If I were loading ammo for a 120 PF I would load a Hornady 140gr lead bullet or similar bullet to 925 fps and practice a lot before the match with them. W231/HP-38 will easily get you there without going to max pressure and not over stress your revolver. There are many powders that will do the job.
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09-29-2017, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodbrew
Hi Guys
I have a K38 6" barrel and I'm considering using it for a Service pistol match that specifies minimum 120 power factor.
I intend using a 135gr BNWC with around 4.0 gr WST to achieve 900 fps which will give a power factor of 121.
My question is if this load will be too hot for the K38 I'm certainly not keen on long term damage.
Thoughts please
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I'm not familiar with the rules for "Service Pistol", but if it's anything like USPSA, you're literally shooting yourself in the foot planning to set up a load that close to the power floor. It would be a much better plan to go for a load somewhere around 125,000, that way, if you run across a slow chronograph at a match, or adverse atmospheric conditions, you'll likely still make the 120,000 power floor.
Back in the old days when the USPSA Major Power Factor was 175,000, I always loaded for 182,000. I never got downgraded to minor in a match. A lot of people who tried to cut it closer to the major cutoff point ended up getting downgraded to Minor Power Factor, more than once.
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Last edited by D Brown; 09-29-2017 at 02:31 AM.
Reason: Edit to correct spelling on "AutoCorrect"
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09-29-2017, 01:11 AM
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I shoot the same service match here in New Zealand that they do in Australia. In fact my only international match was a service pistol match I shot in Queensland back in 2003.
The load I have finally settled on is 4.2 gn of Tightgroup under a 148 gn jacketed hollow based wadcutter.
While I cannot recall exact velocities when chronographed (and my diary is in my range bag locked away in the boot of my car for a match tomorrow) I do recall the PF came in at around 130.
This gives a comfortable safety margin for small variations in loads as well as for testing on a cold day. (And if anyone wants to know what that is like ask some of the Aussie IPSC shooters who worked up good loads in South Australia a few years ago to shoot in our Nationals and found they failed to make PF).
As for the K frame strength, well they did make the M19 .357 Magnum on the K frame and that worked. Given that 120 PF does not even make +P pressures I see no issues.
Last edited by Kiwi cop; 09-29-2017 at 01:12 AM.
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09-29-2017, 01:18 AM
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Good advice guys thanks !
WST is a very good pistol powder as stated above just a little slower than 231.
Looks like the K38 should be OK I'll build up to it slowley and see how it goes speed wise.
Regards to all
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09-29-2017, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldChief
I tried to locate some data for the WST powder and bullet you're planning on loading but learned that WST is a shotgun powder. Frankly, I wouldn't use it for loading .38 Special due to the fact that it is designed for use in shot shells. I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people when it comes to reloading who may offer more information but basically, with a lack of official data for using WST for pistol reloading, I would definitely shy away from it.
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WST is used all the time for handgun reloading. There's load data all over the place. What there isn't a lot of data for is the 135-grain lead bullet--it's a bit of an oddball. Most .38 Spl data is clustered around the 125-gr (itsy-bitsy roundnose), 148-gr (wadcutters of various designs), and 158-gr (semiwads), with a few 200-gr "thunderhead"-type semiwads.
Many faster pistol powders are also used in shotgunning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Brown
I'm not familial with the rules for "Service Pistol", but if it's anything like USPSA, you're literally shooting yourself in the foot planning to set up a load that close to the power floor. It would be a much better plan to go for a load somewhere around 125,000, that way, if you run across a slow chronograph at a match, or adverse atmospheric conditions, you'll likely still make the 120,000 power floor.
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This is good advice.
I think you'd have a much easier time with a 148-gr or 158-gr bullet. I would go to the 158 LSWC. Virtually any suitable powder would have no problem getting you to the 800 fps required to make 127 PF.
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09-29-2017, 06:56 AM
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You've received excellent advice, 148gr to 158gr bullets will easily get you to the promised land with wst.
WST is a god choice for standard/target loads for the 38spl. Meters well, burns clean and is extremely consistent from shot to shot.
Real world #'s are always different than the book #'s. You looked at a reloading manual that uses a 7.7" test bbl
test bbl vs revolver ='s apples vs oranges
You will loose velocity because of:
shorter bbl length
around 10fps for every 1/1000th of cylinder gap
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09-29-2017, 10:23 AM
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My standard .38 load for ICORE and IDPA is 4.3 gr HP38 under 158gr plated. I typically load 5 or 6 thousand a year. Around 128PF. No smoke from a plated bullet on rapidfire.
Thousands of IDPA shooter use HP38 or similar under 158gr bullets, so there is no need to reinvent the load.
And as everyone has told you, your proposed load with WST is too light. I have used WST in a 133PF .38 load (worked fine)and prefer HP38. Chrono your load in your gun to verify PF and don't rely on guessing.
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Last edited by OKFC05; 09-29-2017 at 10:29 AM.
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09-29-2017, 10:34 AM
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if your goal is a PF of 121, much sure you keep the rounds in your warm pocket before they are tested
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09-29-2017, 11:08 PM
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Your load seems very mild to me...and I'm no Hot Rodder!Those K frames can take the pressure to reach your intended goal.
Qc
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09-30-2017, 11:33 AM
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I like my standard load and a warmer one that can be used on cold days.
Not all matches are on nice warm, 74 degree days.
In my early days I did not place in a trap shoot due to under powered ammo. The morning shoot was in 39 degree weather
and I left my ammo out in the car. Rookie move...
the 2 3/4 Dram needed to be switched out to 3 Dram to break all the birds.
Same goes with rifle and pistol ammo.
Just making power factor is taking a chance.
Good shooting.
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09-30-2017, 11:43 AM
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Barrel length and air temperature can affect loads. Be sure what you end up with will make 130 PF consistently to be safe. 231 is my standby and depending on bullet (I normally use 158) will easily make the 130.
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10-17-2017, 10:52 PM
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WST is actually reverse temp sensitive. Slows down in higher temps.
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