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Old 10-16-2017, 02:23 PM
red1 red1 is offline
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Question 38 snub and 2400 powder advice

I have read that 2400 powder and 38 special loads are not a good match. I have tried various powders and it seems to be the most accurate in my Taurus 85 Lite Stainless. Unique, Power Pistol, Blue Dot, BE and CFE all gave a 3” +/- 1/4" spread at twenty feet using a rest, seven rounds each. The 2400 produced a pattern of less than 3/4” (2- three cloverleafs). All were 158 grain JHP, WSP, Winchester Case and COL of 1.1450. Heavy crimp. 2400 burn was very clean, no signs of pressure. All loads were near maximum for 38 non P. Any thoughts.
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Last edited by red1; 10-23-2017 at 05:45 PM. Reason: forgot BE
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:41 PM
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Sounds like you found a combination your revolver likes.

No reason to fuss over it.
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:51 PM
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Wink Good point of view.

Thanks, I always tend to question my decisions.
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:02 PM
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#2400 has been used successfully in .38 Special loads for many decades. Most who use it generally shoot heavy bullets and full-house loads. I would guess, but don't know for sure that it wouldn't work as well with the lighter bullets that seem to be popular with many handloaders today.
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:17 PM
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I could not find 2400 modern data for 38 and 158 JHP. Beginning to think powder manufactures are trying to sell new products. Just backed off old data a little. Might even go up a grain or 2 and test accuracy.
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:23 PM
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Max charges of slow powder always produce the higher speeds, particularly with heavier bullets, and may produce very good accuracy, depending on the gun. Granted, you are burning twice as much powder as would be needed to get almost as much speed out of the short barrel with a faster powder, but that's EFFICIENCY, not EFFECTIVESS you are missing.
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:25 PM
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You don't have to like the powders or the levels to which they were loaded to establish "max" loads, but here are the results of a chronograph test I conducted a few years back and the 2-inch snub was a part of it. 2400 acquits itself very well indeed in short-snouted revolvers.

158 Grain Lead SWC/5.4 Grains of Unique

2-inch Barrel
MV 964 fps
ME 326 ft./lbs
ES 75 fps
SD 33 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 1026 fps
ME 369 ft/lbs.
ES 31 fps
SD 13.4 fps

6-inch Barrel
MV 1047 fps
ME 385 ft./lbs.
ES 43 fps
SD 16.6 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1149 fps
ME 463 ft./lbs.
ES 56 fps
SD 23.3 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/5.0 Grains Herco

2-inch Barrel
MV 912 fps
ME 292 ft./lbs.
ES 38 fps
SD 14.3 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 964 fps
ME 326 ft./lbs.
ES 34 fps
SD 14.5 fps

6-inch Barrel
MV 976 fps
ME 334 ft./lbs.
ES 64 fps
SD 23.7 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1069 fps
ME 401 ft./lbs.
ES 83 fps
SD 33.1 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/11.5 Grains 2400

2-inch Barrel
MV 1037 fps
ME 377 ft./lbs.
ES 71 fps
SD 30.2 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 1150 fps
ME 464 ft./lbs.
ES 50 fps
SD 26.8

6-inch Barrel
MV 1162 fps
ME 474 ft./lbs.
ES 58 fps
SD 22.2 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1102 fps
ME 426 ft./lbs.
ES 67 fps
SD 24.0 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/8.0 Grains SR 4756

2-inch Barrel
MV 1150 fps
ME 464 ft./lbs.
ES 51 fps
SD 26.5 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 1234 fps
ME 534 ft./lbs.
ES 23 fps
SD 12.3

6-inch Barrel
MV 1251 fps
ME 549 ft./lbs.
ES 23 fps
SD 8.9 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1173 fps
ME 483 ft./lbs.
ES 18 fps
SD 7.7 fps

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Old 10-16-2017, 03:50 PM
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Thanks for sharing your in depth data. Very nice.
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
Max charges of slow powder always produce the higher speeds, particularly with heavier bullets, and may produce very good accuracy, depending on the gun. Granted, you are burning twice as much powder as would be needed to get almost as much speed out of the short barrel with a faster powder, but that's EFFICIENCY, not EFFECTIVESS you are missing.
Just trying to find a load that will consistently hit point of aim.
Thanks
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Old 10-16-2017, 04:22 PM
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I have many old load manuals going back to the 'fifties. I'm not about to look through all of them but did glance at Speer #11 (published in '87). I was quite surprised to see a variety of .38 Special #2400 loads with bullets as light as 110 grains that gave some impressive velocities. Perhaps such loads work well and are accurate.
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Old 10-16-2017, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
I have many old load manuals going back to the 'fifties. I'm not about to look through all of them but did glance at Speer #11 (published in '87). I was quite surprised to see a variety of .38 Special #2400 loads with bullets as light as 110 grains that gave some impressive velocities. Perhaps such loads work well and are accurate.

In 1987 #2400 was "safe" for use in loads for a .38 Special, but with todays modern metallurgy loads are not listed? I have used #2400 in .357 magnum for years and I keep going back to it when I can find it. #2400 has always been accurate in any .357 I have loaded. I was just not satisfied with results of other powders for .38 Special. So I tried #2400 . Thanks again
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by red1 View Post
I could not find 2400 modern data for 38 and 158 JHP. Beginning to think powder manufactures are trying to sell new products. Just backed off old data a little. Might even go up a grain or 2 and test accuracy.
While I usually agree companies will do anything for a profit this time I don't think so. When 2400 was originally released it was called 2400 Smokeless Rifle powder. It is still used today for rifle cartridges loaded with Cast bullets especially cartridges like the 45-70.

That said 2400 can be use in the .38 Special but you will use more power than with faster powders and usually slow powders at low pressures are not clean loads. Today there are much better choices and I'm very surprised you are getting better results with 2400 than Unique in a standard pressure .38 Special load. The slowest powder I use in the .38 Special is HS-6 and then usually at +P pressures.

Hay, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Enjoy the shooting and don't worry about what's usually done. BTW, what are reload specs?

Edit... Just by chance there is a picture of 2400 Smokeless Rifle Powder in the first post of this thread.
Historic Hercules 2400
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:03 AM
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2400 is among the slower burning powders suitable for handgun use. I would expect 2400 to provide best performance in the longer barreled handguns, with the shorter barrels providing reduced performance due to longer ignition and burning times with more unburned powder blown out the muzzle.

Published data clearly indicates that the charges required with 2400 are significantly heavier than many other suitable powders, so clearly not as economical in regular use.

Not to say that 2400 can't be used in .38 Spl. snubbie loads, just suggesting that there may be more useful choices.
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Old 10-17-2017, 02:15 AM
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You should use the listed loads in a K frame 38 special, since
they are on the "Heavy side" for the little J frame 38 special revolver.

Though 2400 powder can be used for 38 special loads I found
that my snubs get the same fps with Unique, Green Dot and Universal
with almost half the amount of powder.

My J frame with a standard 158 gr LRN does around 740fps.
When you get that large bullet up to 835fps with 2400 powder
you are in the +P range of the loading data.

If you get into double numbers with 2400 in a 38 special load
you will need a frame that can withstand the added pressures.

Safe loading.
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Old 10-17-2017, 02:30 AM
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Default Many powders will 'work'.....

Many powders will 'work', but just aren't as suited for all purposes. Sounds like you found a good combo of .38 and 2400.
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Old 10-17-2017, 08:11 AM
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While I usually agree companies will do anything for a profit this time I don't think so. When 2400 was originally released it was called 2400 Smokeless Rifle powder. It is still used today for rifle cartridges loaded with Cast bullets especially cartridges like the 45-70.

That said 2400 can be use in the .38 Special but you will use more power than with faster powders and usually slow powders at low pressures are not clean loads. Today there are much better choices and I'm very surprised you are getting better results with 2400 than Unique in a standard pressure .38 Special load. The slowest powder I use in the .38 Special is HS-6 and then usually at +P pressures.

Hay, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Enjoy the shooting and don't worry about what's usually done. BTW, what are reload specs?

Edit... Just by chance there is a picture of 2400 Smokeless Rifle Powder in the first post of this thread.
Historic Hercules 2400
#2400 was the last powder I tried with the snub, as I did not expect good results either. I am using Winchester cases, WSP (primer), 158 gr. JHP from Everglades, 7.6 gr. #2400, col 1.450 and a heavy crimp. I did a light clean between different loads and #2400 was the cleanest burn. I think this was a fairly light load of #2400 according to some replies. I do know the cylinder gap is four thousands and the JHP's @.357.

I was trying load for 158 gr JHP. CFE gave good results with Spear 125 gr. GDHP. Not as good as the #2400, 158gr JHP.

Thanks for your information.
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Old 10-17-2017, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
You should use the listed loads in a K frame 38 special, since
they are on the "Heavy side" for the little J frame 38 special revolver.

Though 2400 powder can be used for 38 special loads I found
that my snubs get the same fps with Unique, Green Dot and Universal
with almost half the amount of powder.

My J frame with a standard 158 gr LRN does around 740fps.
When you get that large bullet up to 835fps with 2400 powder
you are in the +P range of the loading data.

If you get into double numbers with 2400 in a 38 special load
you will need a frame that can withstand the added pressures.

Safe loading.
Thank you,
I agree with your analysis of #2400, so I loaded at 7.6 gr, which is probably border line +p after reviewing. 7.8 gr. might be in the +p range with 158 gr. JHP. I was trying to keep reasonable pressure. At 7.6 gr. no usual pressure indications, but that is not always reliable.
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Old 10-17-2017, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather View Post
2400 is among the slower burning powders suitable for handgun use. I would expect 2400 to provide best performance in the longer barreled handguns, with the shorter barrels providing reduced performance due to longer ignition and burning times with more unburned powder blown out the muzzle.

Published data clearly indicates that the charges required with 2400 are significantly heavier than many other suitable powders, so clearly not as economical in regular use.

Not to say that 2400 can't be used in .38 Spl. snubbie loads, just suggesting that there may be more useful choices.
Thanks for your information.

I did shoot over a full length white towel and seemed to be a good burn with #2400. Unless blew unburned powder over three feet. The fired cases were placed in new plastic baggies and shaken on all four powder loads and #2400 had less residue. I am really scratching my head over that one.

What powder do you like in snubs?
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Old 10-17-2017, 08:59 AM
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Many powders will 'work', but just aren't as suited for all purposes. Sounds like you found a good combo of .38 and 2400.
Thanks,
The more I read, the more I think this shouldn't be.
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Old 10-17-2017, 09:05 AM
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red1- Suggestion only...I haven't personally tried it, but a 7.6 gr. charge sounds too light with your selected bullet. I doubt it would be +P. I think it would chronograph quite slowly.
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Old 10-17-2017, 09:31 AM
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red1- Suggestion only...I haven't personally tried it, but a 7.6 gr. charge sounds too light with your selected bullet. I doubt it would be +P. I think it would chronograph quite slowly.
Last night borrowed a Speer manual 12 which listed 38 special+p for a 146 JHP six inch barrel Model 14 with 7.6gr. #2400 at 786 mv. max 8 gr. at 859 mv. I do need to chronograph, but suspect slow is the key word here.

Thank you
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Old 10-17-2017, 11:45 AM
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red1- Unfortunately, published load data and velocity figures are often all over the place for the older .38 Special and #2400 loads. I just looked through some of my notes from about ten or twelve years ago and found a Sierra load using their 140 JHP and 9.7 grs. #2400. It chronographed at 869 in my S&W Outdoorsman with a 6 1/2" barrel. This was their minimum recommended charge with that bullet. Best to chronograph if you have the opportunity. Good luck-
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:17 PM
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Default #2400 158 gr. JHP

#2400 158gr. JHP.jpg

Email wanted to see actual target. Tried to scan. 20 ft. Revolver butt on rest. Never tried to adjust point of aim. Just testing group. 7 rounds.

Last edited by red1; 10-17-2017 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:28 PM
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red1- Unfortunately, published load data and velocity figures are often all over the place for the older .38 Special and #2400 loads. I just looked through some of my notes from about ten or twelve years ago and found a Sierra load using their 140 JHP and 9.7 grs. #2400. It chronographed at 869 in my S&W Outdoorsman with a 6 1/2" barrel. This was their minimum recommended charge with that bullet. Best to chronograph if you have the opportunity. Good luck-
This was a staring point for this inexpensive Taurus 85. Although 158gr. JHP is more pressure. Better less than more to start with #2400, I think?
Thank you for looking up your notes. A nice piece of data.

Thanks
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:37 PM
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Default ME & 2400 IS A LOVE/HATE RELATIONSHIP.

Using 2400 in asst revolvers, mostly 357 with barrels 2 3/4"- 4", I love the velocity & accuracy & dislike the noise & unburned powder. If it works for you have at it.
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Old 10-17-2017, 01:27 PM
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Question Am perplexed

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Originally Posted by nachogrande View Post
Using 2400 in asst revolvers, mostly 357 with barrels 2 3/4"- 4", I love the velocity & accuracy & dislike the noise & unburned powder. If it works for you have at it.
Thanks,
I just got a clean burn with this load. Forcing cone, barrel, and cylinder/face (stainless) were nearly clean. Yes only 7 rounds. Stated earlier I am perplexed. I plan to charge up a few tenths at a time and see what happens. I think?
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Old 10-17-2017, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks for your information.

I did shoot over a full length white towel and seemed to be a good burn with #2400. Unless blew unburned powder over three feet. The fired cases were placed in new plastic baggies and shaken on all four powder loads and #2400 had less residue. I am really scratching my head over that one.

What powder do you like in snubs?
The unburned powder burns once outside the barrel, causing muzzle flash. You probably will not find much unburned powder in the cases. 2400 is a powder that performs at higher pressure, so low pressure would result in inadequate ignition. Doesn't sound like your case, I would suspect you are into +p territory, possibly 38/44.

I was unable for a while to get 2400, I switched to Longshot which is about the same burn rate. I only use it for +p, and 38/44 loads.

I see no reason not to carry 38/44 in a J frame, had a detective friend that carried factory 38/44 in his model 36 forty years back. He fired just a limited number to get his bearings. The rest of his qualifications were done with standard factory loads. At that time it was 158 grain lead round nose.

If it was my gun I would limit the amount of loads with a slow powder. I use tightgroup for most plinking, but carry 38/44 loads in my guns. Maybe you should consider blue dot, still a slow/moderate powder with a strong reputation.
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Old 10-17-2017, 05:00 PM
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The unburned powder burns once outside the barrel, causing muzzle flash. You probably will not find much unburned powder in the cases. 2400 is a powder that performs at higher pressure, so low pressure would result in inadequate ignition. Doesn't sound like your case, I would suspect you are into +p territory, possibly 38/44.

I was unable for a while to get 2400, I switched to Longshot which is about the same burn rate. I only use it for +p, and 38/44 loads.

I see no reason not to carry 38/44 in a J frame, had a detective friend that carried factory 38/44 in his model 36 forty years back. He fired just a limited number to get his bearings. The rest of his qualifications were done with standard factory loads. At that time it was 158 grain lead round nose.

If it was my gun I would limit the amount of loads with a slow powder. I use tightgroup for most plinking, but carry 38/44 loads in my guns. Maybe you should consider blue dot, still a slow/moderate powder with a strong reputation.
I believe you might have hit search "dead center". I received Alliant's 2017 Reloader's 2017 guide in mail today (free on Alliants sight).

Although they do not list 158gr. JHP, they do list 146gr. JHP +P

146gr. JHP Blue Dot 7.1gr 6" barrel @1000fps. +P
146gr. JHP #2400 9gr. 6" barrel @ 952fps. +P

Start charge reduce by 10%.

That would give 8.1gr. but I am using 158gr. JHP @ 7.6gr. #2400.

Yes, I was not working on plinking load, but accuracy. I have Blue Dot, but will be picking up Tightgroup when available.

Also interesting testing some factory ammo produce higher muzzle velocities with shorter barrels.
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/r...barrel-length/

Thanks for information
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  #29  
Old 10-17-2017, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather View Post
Published data clearly indicates that the charges required with 2400 are significantly heavier than many other suitable powders, so clearly not as economical in regular use.
Economy is a relative term. If you pay $23.33 per pound for propellant you get 3 grains per penny. Condidering I pay 7 to 10 cents a bullet and 3 cents for a primer and amortize two for the case, what's another penny or two for a particular powder choice.
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Old 10-17-2017, 06:43 PM
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Economy is a relative term. If you pay $23.33 per pound for propellant you get 3 grains per penny. Condidering I pay 7 to 10 cents a bullet and 3 cents for a primer and amortize two for the case, what's another penny or two for a particular powder choice.
Well, I definitely have to agree with this point. If not a good load, why load. .02 x 50 = $1.00
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Old 10-18-2017, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
a 7.6 gr. charge sounds too light with your selected bullet. I doubt it would be +P. I think it would chronograph quite slowly.
Agree!

My first caliber to reload in 1969 was .38 Spl. and my powder was "Hercules" 2400. I regularly loaded 11.0 grains of 2400 under bullets from 125 to 158 grains for a K-frame Masterpiece.

Just opinion, but because of the slow burning nature of 2400, I probably would not load less than 8.5 grains w/ .38 and 158 grain pills. The shell needs to be mostly full of powder w/ this slow burner.

Crawling back into cave. Y'all have a great day. Bo
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Old 10-18-2017, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BoCash View Post
Agree!

My first caliber to reload in 1969 was .38 Spl. and my powder was "Hercules" 2400. I regularly loaded 11.0 grains of 2400 under bullets from 125 to 158 grains for a K-frame Masterpiece.

Just opinion, but because of the slow burning nature of 2400, I probably would not load less than 8.5 grains w/ .38 and 158 grain pills. The shell needs to be mostly full of powder w/ this slow burner.

Crawling back into cave. Y'all have a great day. Bo
I will increase by .2grs. at a time later this week and test. Let you all know.
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Old 10-18-2017, 08:14 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
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2400 was a favorite of Skeeter in .38Spl when .357 brass was scarce.This being said,20K psi from 2400 or from Titegroup is still 20Kpsi.It is just that Titegroup will give its peak pressure much sooner than 2400(we're talking thousands of a second here).
Not only I wouldn't be scared to use 2400 in .38Spl but it is actually much more forgiving in case of a mistake.
If it works for you,have fun with it!
Qc
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  #34  
Old 10-19-2017, 03:10 PM
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Wink 8.5gr 2400 2" revolver

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Originally Posted by BoCash View Post
Agree!

My first caliber to reload in 1969 was .38 Spl. and my powder was "Hercules" 2400. I regularly loaded 11.0 grains of 2400 under bullets from 125 to 158 grains for a K-frame Masterpiece.

Just opinion, but because of the slow burning nature of 2400, I probably would not load less than 8.5 grains w/ .38 and 158 grain pills. The shell needs to be mostly full of powder w/ this slow burner.

Crawling back into cave. Y'all have a great day. Bo
Bo,

Went form 7.6 gr. to 8.3gr. @ .2 gr increments. , then to 8.4gr. to 8.6gr. @ .1gr. increments. 5 rounds each @ 20 feet. The 8.5 gr. produce the best group. A four leaf clover with one round 1/8" off group. No obvious signs of high pressures. Cases fell out when tipped up, primers normal and revolver pretty darn clean. 35 rounds total without wipe down between loads. The 8.5gr load did have noticeably more bang. Yes, fixed sights do shoot left with all loads and powders tried. Could be me.


Thanks again.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg #2400 8.5gr.158gr. JHP.jpg (36.2 KB, 22 views)

Last edited by red1; 10-20-2017 at 12:00 PM. Reason: off .9 grain
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  #35  
Old 10-19-2017, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Qc Pistolero View Post
2400 was a favorite of Skeeter in .38Spl when .357 brass was scarce.This being said,20K psi from 2400 or from Titegroup is still 20Kpsi.It is just that Titegroup will give its peak pressure much sooner than 2400(we're talking thousands of a second here).
Not only I wouldn't be scared to use 2400 in .38Spl but it is actually much more forgiving in case of a mistake.
If it works for you,have fun with it!
Qc

#2400 is the most accurate grouping in Taurus 85 Stainless ( I know inexpensive revolver, but ...) of all powders so far. Spoke with Alliant yesterday and they are supposedly testing in .38 special, other than the 146gr JHP.
Could be hot air!
I am just always cautious when loading data is not readily available.

Thanks

Last edited by red1; 10-19-2017 at 05:31 PM.
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  #36  
Old 10-19-2017, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
You don't have to like the powders or the levels to which they were loaded to establish "max" loads, but here are the results of a chronograph test I conducted a few years back and the 2-inch snub was a part of it. 2400 acquits itself very well indeed in short-snouted revolvers.

158 Grain Lead SWC/5.4 Grains of Unique

2-inch Barrel
MV 964 fps
ME 326 ft./lbs
ES 75 fps
SD 33 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 1026 fps
ME 369 ft/lbs.
ES 31 fps
SD 13.4 fps

6-inch Barrel
MV 1047 fps
ME 385 ft./lbs.
ES 43 fps
SD 16.6 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1149 fps
ME 463 ft./lbs.
ES 56 fps
SD 23.3 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/5.0 Grains Herco

2-inch Barrel
MV 912 fps
ME 292 ft./lbs.
ES 38 fps
SD 14.3 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 964 fps
ME 326 ft./lbs.
ES 34 fps
SD 14.5 fps

6-inch Barrel
MV 976 fps
ME 334 ft./lbs.
ES 64 fps
SD 23.7 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1069 fps
ME 401 ft./lbs.
ES 83 fps
SD 33.1 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/11.5 Grains 2400

2-inch Barrel
MV 1037 fps
ME 377 ft./lbs.
ES 71 fps
SD 30.2 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 1150 fps
ME 464 ft./lbs.
ES 50 fps
SD 26.8

6-inch Barrel
MV 1162 fps
ME 474 ft./lbs.
ES 58 fps
SD 22.2 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1102 fps
ME 426 ft./lbs.
ES 67 fps
SD 24.0 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/8.0 Grains SR 4756

2-inch Barrel
MV 1150 fps
ME 464 ft./lbs.
ES 51 fps
SD 26.5 fps

4-inch Barrel
MV 1234 fps
ME 534 ft./lbs.
ES 23 fps
SD 12.3

6-inch Barrel
MV 1251 fps
ME 549 ft./lbs.
ES 23 fps
SD 8.9 fps

8 3/8-inch Barrel
MV 1173 fps
ME 483 ft./lbs.
ES 18 fps
SD 7.7 fps

Noticed that MV with #2400 and SR 4756 both dropped from 6-inch barrel to 8 3/8-inch barrel. Not by much. Also these two powders had the least MV spread from the 2-inch to 8 3/8-inch barrel lengths. Interesting.
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  #37  
Old 10-19-2017, 09:10 PM
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Filling the case and taking up air space often leads to small deviations. I haven't used 4756 in a long time and don't remember how bulky it is. The #2400 loads should pretty well take care of any excess room in a .38 Special case.
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Old 10-20-2017, 07:16 AM
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I do want a chronograph, of course there are many things I want. So what it comes down to is need. Is it necessary at this stage in life, probably not. Maybe I can locate a quality used over a cheaper new. I will research on what is out there.

Thanks,
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  #39  
Old 10-20-2017, 09:44 AM
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I like 2400 a lot. I use it exclusively for 30 carbine and 357 K frames.

I don't own a 38 spl +P J frame so I'm staying away. All my 38 spl ammo is loaded with faster powder.

One just never knows what will work the best. I like American Select, a fast shotgun powder that performs like Bullseye.
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  #40  
Old 10-20-2017, 11:23 AM
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Do you load heavier than 125gr. JHP. Alliant only gives data both 38 Special and P+ for up 125gr. JHP. Looks like a clean powder. Email from Alliant said they have cleaned up #2400 with better components. Did completely disassembly/clean revolver and no worse than any other powder used.

Thanks
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  #41  
Old 10-20-2017, 12:53 PM
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I never expected to consume mass quantities of 2400-fueled .38 Special handloads at a time, viewing the concoction more as a handloaded home defense type load rather than a general purpose load.

I don't see much future in minimum for moderate charge weights of 2400 or with 2400 used with lighter weight bullets in the .38 Special. The powder seems to work best in the .38 Special when used in heavier charge weights. Residue is present afterward in the form of partially burned powder crumblies, but no revolver I used in working up 2400 loads ever was tied up by them. Clean the revolver normally afterward and things are fine. For a heavy hunting load or for self-defense purposes it is of no concern.

I never could gin up much concern about "dirty burning" powders anyway if the handloads otherwise performed as desired.
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:30 PM
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Do you load heavier than 125gr. JHP. Alliant only gives data both 38 Special and P+ for up 125gr. JHP. Looks like a clean powder. Email from Alliant said they have cleaned up #2400 with better components. Did completely disassembly/clean revolver and no worse than any other powder used.

Thanks
Yes, all I shoot in 38 spl is 158 gr SWC and JHP. Start with 3.0 grns. of AS.
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Old 10-20-2017, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
I never expected to consume mass quantities of 2400-fueled .38 Special handloads at a time, viewing the concoction more as a handloaded home defense type load rather than a general purpose load.

I don't see much future in minimum for moderate charge weights of 2400 or with 2400 used with lighter weight bullets in the .38 Special. The powder seems to work best in the .38 Special when used in heavier charge weights. Residue is present afterward in the form of partially burned powder crumblies, but no revolver I used in working up 2400 loads ever was tied up by them. Clean the revolver normally afterward and things are fine. For a heavy hunting load or for self-defense purposes it is of no concern.

I never could gin up much concern about "dirty burning" powders anyway if the handloads otherwise performed as desired.
Point well made. I did a complete disassembly/clean to see if rumors I have read about particles in mechanisms were true. Nothing. Thanks
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Old 10-20-2017, 03:20 PM
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Yes, all I shoot in 38 spl is 158 gr SWC and JHP. Start with 3.0 grns. of AS.
Good to have start load with 158gr. bullet. Hope to pick up soon and try. Some powders can be hard to find at times.
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  #45  
Old 10-20-2017, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by red1 View Post
Thanks for your information.

I did shoot over a full length white towel and seemed to be a good burn with #2400. Unless blew unburned powder over three feet. The fired cases were placed in new plastic baggies and shaken on all four powder loads and #2400 had less residue. I am really scratching my head over that one.

What powder do you like in snubs?
All time favorite, after 46 years of reloading .38 Special, is 5.0 grains Unique, standard primer, 158 grain cast SWC. Never found a revolver that would not shoot well with that recipe.

Best regards.
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  #46  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather View Post
All time favorite, after 46 years of reloading .38 Special, is 5.0 grains Unique, standard primer, 158 grain cast SWC. Never found a revolver that would not shoot well with that recipe.

Best regards.
Thanks do have Unique, Will pick up 158 grain cast SWC and give that recipe a try. I do like a heavier bullet, 140gr. and above. 46 years loading .38 special, great.

Once again, thanks.
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  #47  
Old 10-21-2017, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather View Post
All time favorite, after 46 years of reloading .38 Special, is 5.0 grains Unique, standard primer, 158 grain cast SWC. Never found a revolver that would not shoot well with that recipe.

Best regards.
With this load I will be using (purchased) 158gr. 358 dia. cast SWC. Suggestions on crimp... light, medium, heavy.

Thanks again...
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  #48  
Old 10-22-2017, 10:57 AM
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My 3 most favorite powders in 38spl are : 2400 / Unique / IMR 4756 ( now discontinued , but I have a very healthy suppply ) . After those 3 , I will say WST . I really appreciate bmcgilvray posting his testing from years ago . He didn't just list the loads , but gave us chronograph results as well . There's a lot of info there .
Regards , Paul

Last edited by cowboy4evr; 10-22-2017 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 10-22-2017, 05:52 PM
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My 3 most favorite powders in 38spl are : 2400 / Unique / IMR 4756 ( now discontinued , but I have a very healthy suppply ) . After those 3 , I will say WST . I really appreciate bmcgilvray posting his testing from years ago . He didn't just list the loads , but gave us chronograph results as well . There's a lot of info there .
Regards , Paul
Yes, a special "thanks" to bmcgilvray. I printed and use for reference. Wish I had some IMR 4756 to try.

Thanks again for your information.
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Old 10-23-2017, 12:10 AM
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Surprised that you don’t give Power Pistol and Unique another try. Follow Speer 38 Spl + data for their 158 gr lead bullets with Power Pistol and you’re bound to get a real good, accurate load (with low es). I used to use old Lyman 2400 data for 38-44 loadings, but what the heck, you can get 90-95% there with Power Pistol and Speer data using half the amount of powder compared to 2400.
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