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  #1  
Old 12-21-2017, 05:44 PM
iouri iouri is offline
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Default Primers flipped in 650 ?

I've made a batch of 45 ACP today, using Tula LPP. Out of that 1k batch I've had 5 cases with primers upside down and 5 were sideways. I've only used pickup tubes (kind of less frustrating than vibraprime anyway ). So looking for ideas of what might be wrong with my setup. Thanks in advance.
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Old 12-21-2017, 06:21 PM
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Disassemble and verify proper primer cup size. 45 acp can be either large or small primer. Then clean and reassemble priming mechanism.
If problem persists replace the cup. If you loaded 1k round successfully and only have 5 bad then my guess is that if you replace the cup you will be good to go.
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Old 12-21-2017, 06:46 PM
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Thanks, cadmike, primer mechanism has been cleaned prior to that session and there were 10 bad ones (1% from the batch) 5 were sideways 5 completely flipped. What cup are you referring, one on the drop tube ?
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:40 PM
cadmike cadmike is online now
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I’m referring to the cup that holds the primer as you seat the primer into the case.

If there are any burrs or imperfections in that cup it can cause primers to flip or turn just prior to seating, in my experience.
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:46 PM
iouri iouri is offline
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No, it looks good as new.
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:47 PM
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I have never had a flipped primer in my 650. not even sure how that would happen unless something was not snugged up. It is possible to pick them up the wrong side.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:11 PM
iouri iouri is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I have never had a flipped primer in my 650. not even sure how that would happen unless something was not snugged up. It is possible to pick them up the wrong side.
I'm not sure if it's possible, fred, but I don't think I did. Held pick up tubes as perpendicular as I could to the surface and primers were oriented correctly.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:39 PM
cadmike cadmike is online now
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Well the primer cup is probly a $2 part. Dillon Will send you one promptly, if you call them. What’s it hurt to try replacing it? Good luck.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:46 PM
SLT223 SLT223 is online now
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As far as I can tell it happens two ways:

1) It went in the tube upside down (not too likely, but sometimes happens)

2) negative geforce pulling the ram handle down. This gets ugly when a case is hard to get off the expander and you have a light bench, a press not firmly anchored to the bench, or a combination of the two. The negative geforce of the press causes the column of primers in the primer tube to jump, which gives them the opportunity to flip over. My reloading bench had to pork up to almost 400lbs with the help of bullet stock to prevent this from happening with straight wall pistol cases and carbide dies.

That’s been my experience with the same press any way.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:56 PM
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Thanks, SLT223, I don't think any of the primers went upside down in the tube unless they flipped during transfer from pickup tube. #2 I think not applicable as well - press is on a strong mount, cases are sprayed with hornady one shot (otherwise my 45 acp powder funnel gets a lot of galling and sticks real bad). So no excessive force on either up or down stroke.
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  #11  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:20 PM
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I was having trouble with flipped small pistol primers on my 650 once and I traced it back to the plastic tip on the pickup tube not being seated fully against the body of the pickup tube. The resulting gap was giving them room to flip. You might check that all your tips are snug.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:29 PM
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Thanks, kleeber, that sounds plausible - I did remove those tips when I was trying to use tubes with vibraprime.
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Old 12-22-2017, 12:15 AM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
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I could go into my ideas on what is causing primer flip BUT I encourage you to simply call Dillon!! They are really good at helping you get squared away. They won't laugh at you or give you ****.

I have been loading on a 650 since they first came out 1992-3?? Primer flip has occurred on my small primer machine when the entire primer assembly has too much accumulated crud OR the shell plate is not tightened down correctly(a trial and error solution).

Good luck.
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  #14  
Old 12-22-2017, 12:20 AM
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Having loaded 1,000 rounds my bet is that you deprimed and resized right before you set the primers. One of Dillon flaws is that when you deprime it can drop primer debris on the shell plate dragging it over to the priming system. Try cleaning this off about every 200 or so rounds it should clear up your problem.
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  #15  
Old 12-22-2017, 11:04 AM
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I forgot to give my reason for my analysis. The reason is not for the upside down primers it is because of the sideways primers.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:22 PM
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The likelycause for this is that the primer seating assembly is backing out of the threaded hole in the platform. The 650 uses a disc, not a cup to hold primers. As the disc rotates over the primer seater, if the seater has backed out, there is a gap under the primer, allowing it to rotate on its side, or even upside down. Use an open-end wrench to snug the the primer seater back up into the underside of the platform.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:15 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dillonhelp View Post
The likelycause for this is that the primer seating assembly is backing out of the threaded hole in the platform. The 650 uses a disc, not a cup to hold primers. As the disc rotates over the primer seater, if the seater has backed out, there is a gap under the primer, allowing it to rotate on its side, or even upside down. Use an open-end wrench to snug the the primer seater back up into the underside of the platform.
Well now you heard it from The Blue Press themselves!
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:15 PM
iouri iouri is offline
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Thanks, dillonhelp, I'll check that out.
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Old 12-29-2017, 04:56 PM
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O.K. it's been a week and no update. One of three things happened.
1. you died and can't let us know if it's fixed or not. But since you have other posts I don't think that is the problem.
2. You found out that your Dillon press is not what it is cracked up to be and it is now a boat anchor. But I doubt this because you haven't requested info on other presses.
3. You got it fixed but didn't pass on how so the next guy with this problem will have to go through the same search that you did. Or you just forgot to pass the info how to fix it.
How about an update?

Last edited by DRAINSMITH; 12-29-2017 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 12-29-2017, 05:30 PM
iouri iouri is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAINSMITH View Post
O.K. it's been a week and no update. One of three things happened.
1. you died and can't let us know if it's fixed or not. But since you have other posts I don't think that is the problem.
2. You found out that your Dillon press is not what it is cracked up to be and it is now a boat anchor. But I doubt this because you haven't requested info on other presses.
3. You got it fixed but didn't pass on how so the next guy with this problem will have to go through the same search that you did. Or you just forgot to pass the info how to fix it.
How about an update?
Drainsmith, I've switched my priming unit to small primers, since then I've had no issues with flipping primers (1k of 380-s loaded), besides I've used all my Tula primers, so technically can't provide "apples to apples" update. As dillonhelp suggested I've just made sure priming assembly is set and torqued tight.

Last edited by iouri; 12-29-2017 at 05:32 PM.
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  #21  
Old 12-29-2017, 07:14 PM
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Or 4. you switched to small primers.
Was the primer tight? I didn't even consider this because you didn't state that you didn't have primers, not seating flush. That is usually the first sign of a primer punch that is not tight.
But keep us informed, and thanks for the response.
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  #22  
Old 12-29-2017, 10:30 PM
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I guess it could be the reason - large primer punch was only hand tightened, the actual seating was fine - no excessive force and seated just a hair below head surface. Small primer punch I did use wrench.
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  #23  
Old 12-30-2017, 06:37 PM
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Is the priming mechanism mounted perfectly centered? What I mean is: Before tightening the screws that hold the pickup tube / primer assembly on you should operate the "prime" mechanism (push forward on the handle) a few times, to centre it, then push and hold it forward whilst tightening the screws.

If it is off a little bit it will catch on the hole in the ram plate before adjusting to fit in the hold, which could "flick" the spring-loaded part with the primer inside it, potentially upsetting the primer, flipping it.

EDIT: Just noticed the last post said it was not bolted on tightly, that would do similar things, but less frequently and more randomly.

Last edited by Electric Head; 12-30-2017 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:21 PM
iouri iouri is offline
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Thanks, ElectricHead, yea I usually make sure that priming assembly is operational before tightening it. I think it was happening due to loose punch.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:06 PM
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That is one problem I have never encountered with my 550. The only problem it has ever had was the expended primer capture chute sticking open and the primers falling onto the floor. I keep lube on the chute, but the aluminum gets dry it gets sticky.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:03 PM
iouri iouri is offline
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Hi, HRichard, I don't think it's same problem - 550 & 650 have completely different priming systems (have both). I've never had primer flipped in 550. Usually good cleaning takes care of 550 priming system "hesitations" for me.
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Old 07-21-2020, 11:11 PM
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He switched brands of primers, problem solved. Tula primers are cheaper for a reason.
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