556/223 Load or Buy Bulk?

[Eddietruett]

My stepson who is a Deputy just got an AR. Being a personal owned firearm he can shoot anything he wants (department issue can use only issued ammo). Since I already load for handgun, setting up to load for him is not a major deal, but is it cost effective? We’re not talking about match grade ammo here. He just wants ammo to burn and practice. Normally I would say buy some bulk and when “new” wears off it won’t be an issue, but he loves to shoot and will burn up all he can get forever especially if I’m buying. Question is can I save a bunch of money loading? Brass is available free so that’s no issue. I’ve been told it’s like 9mm that really is not that cost effective to load unless you have tons of time on your hands. You experts tell me.

[Ivan the Butcher]

For plinking quality 223/556 ammo, it is cheaper to buy! I had stocked up on 55gr. FMJ/BT projectiles in the 80's when the Army switched to 62gr steel core. I paid about $7/1000! I bought 21K (and have 1K unloaded. Back then, buying everything in bulk and on sale/close-out, I loaded for about 6.5 cents a round! Mil-spec ammo cost about 8 cents. I loaded 20K and, I still have about 3500 left and #2 son has about 3K left! Two winters ago I saw 55 grain Hornady FMJ/BT at $17.00 per hundred at Cabela's. (ridiculous!)

Ivan

[elpac3]

I think the bigger issue here is your stepson is a grown, working (law)man who should be able to afford to buy his own ammo. If not, HE needs to figure out how to get what he wants/ needs and can afford.

[fordson]

Interesting question. I’ve been thinking of getting back into 223/556 reloading just for range ammo. Am also looking at getting the conversion kit for my xl 650 and how cost effective that would be. My main concern is with all of the current gun hysteria and potential for additional restrictions, will ammo availability start to dry up. If that happens, then reloading would be an answer.

[Harbinger_of_lead]

For plinking ammo It comes down to brass and the value of your time. If you own brass and the tools for prepping the primer pockets, then you can eliminate a large expense. However, if you value your time at anything north of minimum wage, you are better off buying (IMO).

I did see that some online vendors sell fully prepped military once shot brass for .16 each. Add a bullet, powder and the pesky .03 primer, and you are already more expensive than most readily available NATO (like at Wal-Mart).

[zeke]

Because I already invested in components, dies etc and just retired, will handload 223 and 9mm because can't afford loaded rounds right now. However, am very hesitant to spend time loading 223 with 55 fmj bullets. For the time spent, ain't worth it for my use.

I'd have/help him buy rounds, and save the brass. If needed in future, start considering investing in dies.

[Eddietruett]

Originally Posted by elpac3

I think the bigger issue here is your stepson is a grown, working (law)man who should be able to afford to buy his own ammo. If not, HE needs to figure out how to get what he wants/ needs and can afford.

I agree with you to a point, but he’s just out of college. Spent 3 months at the academy and starting pay is squat. Until he has been on job at least 6 months he will make very little overtime and he can’t work any side functions that help out tremendously with finances. If this was something he was doing just for fun, he would be on his own 100% but it’s something that could save his life. While he works for a large department, they don’t have the funds to provide AR’s or ammo. I don’t want him undergunned out there as well if he has an AR I want him to be proficient with it. He was able to scrape up the money to buy the gun and didn’t ask me for a dime, nor has he ask me to buy any bullets. He is not a freeloader nor a silver spoon kid that’s been handed everything. He worked after school and summers to help put himself through college. He will be successful in life because he is not afraid of work and understands perfectly that if you want something you work for it. I’m proud of what he’s already accomplished and right now I’m concerned about his safety as well as the ones around him more than if he can figure a way to buy a box of bullets to practice with.

[elpac3]

Should be proud there dad!

I was a starting LEO in 1973, still finishing college, small town, job paid almost nothing. I feel your pain.

Used to shoot about a 1000 rounds of handgun a month, buying reloads for $2/box at the local gun store. Had to make the practice really count.

I am certainly not opposed to helping one grow and survive. Sound like you are in a place where you just have to buy your time. One work of caution - I would highly recommend not having handloads get mixed with service ammo - bad juju in court. Likewise for any modifications or additions to the weapon. Just be sure everything has a written department blessing.

Different days on the street now. Seeing more nut jobs and unemployed lawyers looking for deep pockets to go after.

Be smart, be safe.

[Czechvar]

What I would do if it were me...Get him a simple manual press and Dies, maybe a Lee Turret set. Buy the brass and a Swager, show him how to clean the brass, Swage it, clean out the Primer pocket, trim, and load his own. Then you can just provide him Primers, powder and bullets til he can afford his own. He can shoot as much as he can make.

Little Crow Gunworks has some nice little manual reloading tools, I’d recommend starting off with these:

Precision Prep Tool (PPT) | Little Crow Gunworks

The Original World’s Finest Trimmer | Little Crow Gunworks

[LoboGunLeather]

I can't imagine owning a centerfire firearm for which I did not have everything needed to produce my own ammunition.

Started shooting during the 1950's, served in the military late 1960's to early 1970's, started reloading about 1971, started casting bullets about 1972. I own several firearms that have never been fired with factory ammo, and several others for which I have produced every round fired during my ownership.

Anytime I acquire another firearm in a caliber I have not owned before the first order of business is acquiring a set of reloading dies, and usually a good bullet mold.

While there seems to be a good supply of ammo now available at reasonable prices, it hasn't been that long ago that there was little or no ammo available at any price (nor primers, powder, etc).

I suggest that the time to get set up to produce ammo for that new AR is right now. Don't get caught in the future without the ability to supply your needs.

[reddog81]

IMO it's not worth it to reload 5.56. Between the cost of the bullets, powder and primer you're basically at the cost of ammo you can buy.

Unless you're looking for match grade ammo tailored to a specific gun or have tons of free time on your hands I wouldn't do it.

[rockquarry]

With some load development, experienced handloaders can make more accurate ammo than they can buy unless they purchase expensive match stuff.

I've tried a number of the bulk ammunitions. Overall, accuracy wasn't impressive. That's not a concern for many today. As long as the ammo feeds reliably and always fires, it's fine. Even the cheapest products will do that.

I've haven't done any figuring but feel safe in saying that total cost for a handload using a good, accurate bullet and other components will be more expensive than cheap commercially loaded ammo, but it will probably shoot better.

[MichiganScott]

I use bulk Federal XM193 when introducing newbies to the AR platform. My handloads consist of a Sierra 52gr MK over H335, all bought in bulk, for my general purpose load.

The match grade handload costs exactly the same per round as the XM193. That way I know if I miss it is my fault. I enjoy handloading. If I didn't, I'd never load another .223.

[gwpercle]

Might want to buy dies , stock up on bullets and get ready for the next "panic" , the next president may not be one of our ilk ....one election can dry up all the cheap and plentyful ammo for years to come.... and when it does come back...it's doubled in price.
I'm telling you now....Be Prepared.
Gary

[GB]

I load 223/5.56. Mostly all reloads for my bolt guns. Some reloads in my H-Bar Colt ( match ammo) I also have an M4 clone that I shoot mostly bulk ammo. Over the last decade I bought bulk when I could get it at what I considered fair prices. I have passed on ammo in 223/5.56 lately even though it could be had a screamin' low prices because I have a fairly large quantity on hand (3 to 4K) and doubt that I will shoot all that I have.

If you enjoy reloading, picking up a set of dies and a shell holder isn't that costly. You will also need to be ready to trim cases (something I don't do will pistol calibers). If you decide to go the reload route, explain to your son that he is going to be responsible for some of the costs involved and will have to spend some time polishing your reloading bench chair (with the seat of his pants) and pulling the handle on the press.

[fredj338]

I load for 223 because I already load for something like 25 calibers. So I am just buying dies & shell plate for my 550. At current cost, I am loading for 18-19c each or less than $200/1000. If I want to spend more time, I can make my own bullets from spent 22lr, reducing my cost to 11c each; free bullets, free cases, powder & primer is all I need. to shoot.

[bigedp51]

Originally Posted by elpac3

I think the bigger issue here is your stepson is a grown, working (law)man who should be able to afford to buy his own ammo. If not, HE needs to figure out how to get what he wants/ needs and can afford.

I agree 100% and would think twice befor loading ammunition for someone else.

I once bought a bad brick of primers that were recalled by Remington. The problem was my bolt face was badly etched before I knew the primers were bad.

Also loose primer pockets on a over gassed AR15 can also be a big problem.

I found the photo below in a AR15 forum and its food for thought.

And how will your relations be with your stepson if his bolt face ends up looking like below.



I was given three five gallon buckets of .223/5.56 free brass fired by our local police. I gave up using much of these once fired cases because of quality problems and loose primer pockets. And the biggest problem with Federal cases was over sized primer pockets after they were fired once.

Below you can see the difference in the thickness of the flash hole web in the Federal cases.



I now buy bulk once fired Lake City 5.56 brass that is collected from the military. The Lake City cases are made of harder brass than commercial .223 cases. And have thicker flash hole webs that add radial strength to the base of the case.

The harder brass came about after the 1968 congressional hearings on the M16 jamming problems.







How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests << Daily Bulletin



Bottom line, the .223 is rated at 55,000 psi and the newer 5.56 M855 ammunition has a max chamber pressure of 58,700 psi. Meaning the Lake City 5.56 cases are made to withstand higher pressures. (built Ford Truck Tough)

[muddocktor]

I just looked at some bullet prices at Monmouth and they have some Hornady 55 grain spire point bulk bullets selling for 6.8 to 7.5 cents per round, depending on what amount you are willing to spend for bulk bullets. The 6000 count is 6.8-6.9 cents per bullet and the 2000 count and 8000 count are around 7.5 cents a bullet. On powder, there are many powders that work well with the 223 round. You can figure around $175 for 8 lbs of powder and figuring an average of 25 grains/round, you can load 280 rounds per pound of powder. That works out to a little under 8 cents per round for powder. Now, add 3 cents per round for primers and you come up with a cost per round of 18-19 cents per round. I don't count my time as something to figure in when comparing to factory ammo, since I am making the choice to reload instead.

I bought some of those Hornady 55 grain spire points from Monmouth a few months ago and found that Hornady has now started making them with a boat tail instead of flat base, which makes it easier to start them in the case mouth and also should give a bit better BC to help maintain velocity downrange. Also, since it is a spire point bullet with an exposed lead tip, they should also make for a pretty effective varmint round and will be an expanding bullet.

So, if you can buy quality ammo for less than 18-19 cents per round, you would be money ahead by buying factory ammo.

For reloading 223, I've used Accurate 2230 and 2460, their LT-32 (expensive, bought when powder was so hard to find) and I have an 8 lb jug of 2200 I haven't yet tried. I've also used IMR 4198 and IMR 3031 and good results with them, but those stick powders don't meter real well in my Lyman 55, so I ended up scale weighing the powder charges using those 2 powders. The Accurate powders all metered very well out of my Lyman 55 powder measure.

Hopefully this will help you to your decision.

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Originally Posted by Eddietruett

I agree with you to a point, but he’s just out of college. Spent 3 months at the academy and starting pay is squat. Until he has been on job at least 6 months he will make very little overtime and he can’t work any side functions that help out tremendously with finances. If this was something he was doing just for fun, he would be on his own 100% but it’s something that could save his life. While he works for a large department, they don’t have the funds to provide AR’s or ammo. I don’t want him undergunned out there as well if he has an AR I want him to be proficient with it. He was able to scrape up the money to buy the gun and didn’t ask me for a dime, nor has he ask me to buy any bullets. He is not a freeloader nor a silver spoon kid that’s been handed everything. He worked after school and summers to help put himself through college. He will be successful in life because he is not afraid of work and understands perfectly that if you want something you work for it. I’m proud of what he’s already accomplished and right now I’m concerned about his safety as well as the ones around him more than if he can figure a way to buy a box of bullets to practice with.

OK, but I'm not going to unlike the post you just answered.

I accept your question, and now ask, "What's your time worth?" You can do the arithmetic as well as or better than I can. When you're done adding up costs and seeing what you save (if you save), divide by hours and ask yourself whether you want to work for that hourly wage.

Many years ago, when I was gainfully employed, I asked myself that question. I started buying a lot more ammo, even defensive ammo, than components.

Today, I have enough money. I still load for rifle calibers (NOT .223 Remington) because I can do what the factory can't (except for 7mm-08; if I had known how good Hornady ammo was, I would have just bought a lot of ammo and not bothered with the Wilson dies).

Anyway, your numbers, your choice. Certainly nothing wrong with buying factory ammo, if you can get what you want.

[Czechvar]

I would like to add this point. I started buying reloading gear the Summer Of 2016, when it looked like Hellery might steal the election...remember what ammunition prices/availability were like before Trump? I bought a lot of stuff to minimize the Shortages and inflated prices. Things are better now, but the threat never goes away. Most of what I learned came from YouTube videos, because I don’t know anyone around here to learn from. Your son has you and that’s fortunate, because you can teach him to reload.

You know...Give a man a fish, teach a man to fish...etc.

[Harbinger_of_lead]

Originally Posted by gwpercle

Might want to buy dies , stock up on bullets and get ready for the next "panic" , the next president may not be one of our ilk ....one election can dry up all the cheap and plentyful ammo for years to come.... and when it does come back...it's doubled in price.
I'm telling you now....Be Prepared.
Gary

Who's to say the current one is "one of our ilk". more of a danger to guns and ammo than the last one... just sayin'

[LoboGunLeather]

Originally Posted by Czechvar

I would like to add this point. I started buying reloading gear the Summer Of 2016, when it looked like Hellery might steal the election...remember what ammunition prices/availability were like before Trump? I bought a lot of stuff to minimize the Shortages and inflated prices. Things are better now, but the threat never goes away. Most of what I learned came from YouTube videos, because I don’t know anyone around here to learn from. Your son has you and that’s fortunate, because you can teach him to reload.

You know...Give a man a fish, teach a man to fish...etc.

Yeah! Give a man a fish he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he rides around in a boat drinking beer for the rest of his life.

[Skeet 028]

Buying stuff in bulk I can load .223 for 3.30 a box...or less as long as I have the free cases...bulk ammo is approx 6 dollars a box. Reloading is almost always cheaper. I can load much cheaper than the above prices. Was at the gun show last weekend and bought 5000 Alcan SR primers for 5 dollars a thousand a 1000 LP primers(5 bucks) and 3 lbs of 4198 for 10 bucks a lb. Even got one pound of 2400 for free. If you look around you can find 55 gr FMJs for as little as 5.5 cents each. I haunt the gun shows for cheap stuff and am not afraid to make low ball offers

[rwsmith]

Unless you are broke like me and have to reload everything I shoot, and have a lot of time it's probably better to buy. I have reloaded .223 and it's not difficult, easy in fact. If you have everything else a set of dies can be had for about $30. I buy enough factory ammo to get the brass I want.

If you are inclined at all to reload get the dies and it's good to have the option.

[Neumann]

Personally, I'd rather spend a little more to get accurate results, than to make noise and smoke at the range.

It is common to find military surplus 5.56x41 ammo cheaper than you can reload, mostly M193, which I find relatively inaccurate. 1.5" groups at 100 yards are not uncommon, even when fired from a rest. I load 68 grain HP bullets, well within published limits, and produce 1/2" groups at that distance. I have heard that the steel core in M193 is not well balanced, causing poor grouping.

Have you noticed that M193 smells like cat pee when fired?

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

I can't imagine owning a centerfire firearm for which I did not have everything needed to produce my own ammunition.

Started shooting during the 1950's, served in the military late 1960's to early 1970's, started reloading about 1971, started casting bullets about 1972. I own several firearms that have never been fired with factory ammo, and several others for which I have produced every round fired during my ownership.

Anytime I acquire another firearm in a caliber I have not owned before the first order of business is acquiring a set of reloading dies, and usually a good bullet mold.

While there seems to be a good supply of ammo now available at reasonable prices, it hasn't been that long ago that there was little or no ammo available at any price (nor primers, powder, etc).

I suggest that the time to get set up to produce ammo for that new AR is right now. Don't get caught in the future without the ability to supply your needs.

I have "boat loads" of components for 556 and 9mm also.

Due to lack of interest and lower prices on these calibers I rather just buy factory when I find a really good price. I have lots of time to load, but 223/556 is just boring and time consuming. I would rather take a nap!

To save a few cents a round is not worth it to me. I have to vices to spend money on anymore.

[rwsmith]

Originally Posted by Rule3

I have "boat loads" of components for 556 and 9mm also.

Due to lack of interest and lower prices on these calibers I rather just buy factory when I find a really good price. I have lots of time to load, but 223/556 is just boring and time consuming. I would rather take a nap!

To save a few cents a round is not worth it to me. I have to vices to spend money on anymore.

Giving up smoking and drinking and a few other energy consuming activities. Add to that being 'retirement broke'. Reloading is a great way to spend time. If I bought ammo I'd only be able to shoot a few times a year.

[SMSgt]

I've never found bulk ammo as cheap as what I can reload, but sometimes it gets fairly close. The real answer to the question comes down to: do you want to spend your time reloading or spend a few bucks more for bulk and free up your time?

[hdwhit]

Eddietruett asked:
Since I already load for handgun, setting up to load for him is not a major deal, but is it cost effective?

How do you define "cost-effective"?

If you're buying components in small quantities and loading in small quantities, you probably can't even match the cost of imported steel case ammunition.

And since you're reloading for someone else and not yourself, shouldn't you consider the value of your time? If you do, the answer is "absolutely not".

Normally I would say buy some bulk and when “new” wears off it won’t be an issue, but he loves to shoot and will burn up all he can get forever especially if I’m buying.

When I'm "buying" the ammunition (everything I shoot - or that I provide to my sons - are my own reloads), my sons get a 30 round magazine, each, per hour that we're at the range.

If they want to shoot their ARs faster, they can pay for the rounds themselves.

If they are aren't playing "cowboy" and are actually taking the time to practice aimed fire and proper tactical movement, the magazines come a little more frequently, but the general rule is 1 magazine per hour.

Question is can I save a bunch of money loading?

"a bunch of money"? No.

[hdwhit]

bigedp51 asked:
And how will your relations be with your stepson if his bolt face ends up looking like below.

Beggars can't be choosers.

Besides, new AR bolts are cheap.

[1stgarand]

I reload because I have the time, and I enjoy it. No stress, and it's just nice to be able to shoot what I put together. That said, I do buy ammo when it's priced right. Can't have too much.

[MichiganScott]

1stgarand brings up a point that seems to be in the background of this discussion. I enjoy the whole process and do all my loading on a single stage Rock Chucker and did so even when I was competing in high power.

Besides, I have to have something to do when the range is under three feet of snow for six months. Empty brass melts its way down to the bottom and gets real difficult to find.

[Rule3]

Not counting components purchased "years ago" at cheap prices at today's prices for bullet, primer and powder do the math and see if it is cost effective to load them yourself.

This is of course based on having brass.
For "blasting" ammo not precision bolt action work.
At around .08 to .10 cents for just a projectile it is not worth it to me to clean size and trim . Let alone the primer and powder.

But to each their own.

5.56x45mm NATO ammo rifle

[Twoboxer]

My advice:

(1) Use $0.20 per round as the cost of reloading your own brass using (eg) Hornady 55gr, H335, CCI Mil primers at today's PV pricing.

(2) Figure out your startup equipment costs.

(3) Search the internet for bulk ammo prices.

(4) Determine the savings (if any) and determine your savings after recovering your startup costs.

Only you can determine what you can buy components or ammo for TODAY, whether there are any savings or other benefits in handloading this ammo, and whether it's worth a lot of your time and effort.

[Bugkiller99]

Just had a similar discussion with another reloader recently.
The conclusion, Viriginia is...Yes, it’s about time. I only have so much time to devote to reloading. I would rather use that time towards other cartridges that are much more expensive to buy than reload.

However, as someone has said, if hysteria brings us to an ammo shortage, reloading is the way to go. So, I have stashed away the needed components, just in case. Until then, I keep my eye open for good buys. And buy in bulk.

[Forrest r]

I always get a chuckle when reading these kinds of threads.

Just another opinion:
Free 22lr cases/free lead for cores/free range brass/$0.022 primers/$0.029 powder

Free jackets and cores


223 brass is everywhere

Primers go in sale a couple times for $20 a brick + tax or $108 for 5000


Overpaid for powder paid $157 (each) for these #8 jugs, 24gr of h335 or 26gr of bl-c2


Went and bought a cheap savage axis hb in 223 for $325 out the door. Had a $50 rebate and I sold the scope for $50 that came with it. At the end of the day I had $225 in the rifle. Put a 24x scope on it, punched the bore out & checked the torque on the hold down screws and off to the range I went with the:
home swaged bullets/mixed range brass/ladder tests
Nothing more than 5-shot groups with that new rifle, easily did moa


Then there's the YA look at the cost of the swaging dies and core mold. I say YUP I'll use them making countless 1000's of free bullets for decades and then sell everything for more $$$ then I paid for them to begin with.

Right now I'm shooting 223's for under $.06 a round

Time consuming??? Perhaps, but right now there's still snow on the ground and it beats sitting around watching tv. I only load/shoot 5000+ rounds of 223 ammo a year

5000+ rounds ='s $300

[Krogen]

Originally Posted by fordson

Interesting question. I’ve been thinking of getting back into 223/556 reloading just for range ammo. Am also looking at getting the conversion kit for my xl 650 and how cost effective that would be. My main concern is with all of the current gun hysteria and potential for additional restrictions, will ammo availability start to dry up. If that happens, then reloading would be an answer.

I've handloaded .223/5.56 and didn't save any money. I'm more concerned with function than accuracy out of an ordinary AR-15. If you use range brass and cheap components, you can beat bulk prices by a hair. It doesn't take much "component extravagance" to price yourself above bulk ammo. In my case, I shoot M193 and save my brass for that day that ammo availability might tighten up.

[rwt1405]

Originally Posted by SMSgt

I've never found bulk ammo as cheap as what I can reload, but sometimes it gets fairly close. The real answer to the question comes down to: do you want to spend your time reloading or spend a few bucks more for bulk and free up your time?

As a career Paramedic (non-Municipal, so no "nice" city/state/federal salary or pension plan), my chosen career requires me to work multiple jobs, to make an "adequate" living, AND to put away a little something for retirement (again, as a non-municipal EMS employee, not only are our salaries "lacking", but also our retirement plans, again, no nice municipal retirement plan here), so I would rarely have the time needed for reloading.

So for me, what little I'd save by reloading (not to even talk about initial "set up") makes little sense, when I can watch for sales and buy in bulk (when possible).

But that might just be me.

[Skeet 028]

Originally Posted by Forrest r

I always get a chuckle when reading these kinds of threads.

Just another opinion:
Free 22lr cases/free lead for cores/free range brass/$0.022 primers/$0.029 powder

Free jackets and cores


223 brass is everywhere

Primers go in sale a couple times for $20 a brick + tax or $108 for 5000


Overpaid for powder paid $157 (each) for these #8 jugs, 24gr of h335 or 26gr of bl-c2


Went and bought a cheap savage axis hb in 223 for $325 out the door. Had a $50 rebate and I sold the scope for $50 that came with it. At the end of the day I had $225 in the rifle. Put a 24x scope on it, punched the bore out & checked the torque on the hold down screws and off to the range I went with the:
home swaged bullets/mixed range brass/ladder tests
Nothing more than 5-shot groups with that new rifle, easily did moa


Then there's the YA look at the cost of the swaging dies and core mold. I say YUP I'll use them making countless 1000's of free bullets for decades and then sell everything for more $$$ then I paid for them to begin with.

Right now I'm shooting 223's for under $.06 a round

Time consuming??? Perhaps, but right now there's still snow on the ground and it beats sitting around watching tv. I only load/shoot 5000+ rounds of 223 ammo a year

5000+ rounds ='s $300

There it is in spades. Done all of the above or years. I just sold the Bullet swage press I bought in 1958(with dies $15). Made untold 1000s of bullets all these years. With the RCBS press and dies. I got more than I paid by about 70 times. Those bullets shot well in almost everything...not the Swift...and I never felt I was losing out on accuracy. S&B primers work just fine and you can load 223 cheaper than any boxer primed brass cased bulk ammo. Heck even Hornady 55 gr FMJs can be bought for under 8 cents each...just say 15 cents a round...and the average 16 inch bbl'd AR will shoot ok. It surely is NOT a target grade gun...my wife's isn't but it is angle of coyote at 150 yds or less. My Bushmaster Varminter gets loaded differently of course...I use Sierra match bullets with almost the same loads....or 40 gr Nosler Ballistic tips for coyotes(fur saving loads)...still under 4.50 a box. Heck the cheapest FMJ 223 I have bought was last November at Cabela's...Norma FMJs were priced at 6.60 a box ....on closeout 50% off..so 3.30 a box. Actually pretty good accurate ammo too.

[Skeet 028]

Oh and at that price I bought 50 boxes....all they had. The Russian steel cased stuff was priced at 4.88 at half off or.2.44...wrong on the price of the Norma..it was 6.88 or 3.44 a box...still cheap. I bought 50 boxes of the Russian also...for a friend

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by Forrest r

I always get a chuckle when reading these kinds of threads.

Just another opinion:
Free 22lr cases/free lead for cores/free range brass/$0.022 primers/$0.029 powder

Free jackets and cores


223 brass is everywhere

Primers go in sale a couple times for $20 a brick + tax or $108 for 5000


Overpaid for powder paid $157 (each) for these #8 jugs, 24gr of h335 or 26gr of bl-c2


Went and bought a cheap savage axis hb in 223 for $325 out the door. Had a $50 rebate and I sold the scope for $50 that came with it. At the end of the day I had $225 in the rifle. Put a 24x scope on it, punched the bore out & checked the torque on the hold down screws and off to the range I went with the:
home swaged bullets/mixed range brass/ladder tests
Nothing more than 5-shot groups with that new rifle, easily did moa


Then there's the YA look at the cost of the swaging dies and core mold. I say YUP I'll use them making countless 1000's of free bullets for decades and then sell everything for more $$$ then I paid for them to begin with.

Right now I'm shooting 223's for under $.06 a round

Time consuming??? Perhaps, but right now there's still snow on the ground and it beats sitting around watching tv. I only load/shoot 5000+ rounds of 223 ammo a year

5000+ rounds ='s $300

OK, but you never said how much time you spent doing all this?

Also shooting a bolt action you are not blasting a lot of ammo.

How long does taking and posting pictures.

You obviously ENJOY doing what you do, others do not.

This kind of post make be chuckle also.

Oil Changes Men vs Women.

Funny2 - Men vs. Women: How to Change Oil 1
Funny2 - Men vs. Women: How to Change Oil 2

Men vs. Women: How to Change Oil 1

WOMEN:

1. Pull up to Jiffy Lube or Valvoline Instant Oil Change when the mileage reaches 3,000 miles since the last oil change.

2. Drink a cup of coffee while they change the oil.

3. 15 minutes later, write a check and leave with a properly maintained vehicle.

Cost: $29.99 oil change, $2.00 coffee. Total $32.00

MEN:

1. Wait until Saturday, drive to the auto parts store. Buy a case of oil, oil filter, kitty litter, hand cleaner (don't forget a little tree air freshener). Write a check to the auto parts store for approximately $50.

2. Stop by 7/11 on the way home, buy a case of beer. Write a check for $20.00.

3. Drive home with oil and beer.

4. Open beer, enjoy it.

5. Spend 30 minutes looking for the jack stands.

6. Find the jack stands (finally) under the kid's pedal car, jack the car up.

7. Open another beer, drink it.

8. Place drain pan under engine.

9. Look for 9/16" box end wrench for drain plug

10. Give up looking ten minutes later, find crescent wrench.

11. Unscrew drain plug.

12. Drop drain plug into pan of hot oil. Splash hot oil onto your hands and face in the process. Cuss and swear.

13. Crawl out from under car, wipe hot oil from hands and face. Throw some kitty litter on the spilled oil.

14. Open another beer while watching the last drops of oil drain.

15. Spend 30 minutes looking for the oil filter wrench.

16. Give up looking for oil filter wrench, crawl under car and hammer a flat-head screwdriver through the oil filter and twist it off.

17. Crawl out from under car, splashing hot oil everywhere from newly made holes in oil filter.

18. Cleverly hide used oil filter in trash to avoid those pesky environmental penalties. Open another beer.

19. Install new oil filter, making sure to apply a thin coat of oil to the gasket.

• ←
• THERE'S MORE!

MEN (STILL GOING!): 20. Pour the first quart of new oil into engine.

21. Oops! Now remember the drain plug (removed in step 11). It's still swimming in the now-warm oil in the drain pan.

22. Throw more kitty litter on the quart-sized oil puddle on the floor.

23. Open another beer and drink it.

24. Find drain plug with a minimum of spillage, hand-tighten in drain plug socket. Drink beer.

25. Crawl under car (getting oily kitty litter embedded in neck and arms). Tighten drain plug with crescent wrench, but this time, it's slippery. Bang your knuckles on the frame while tightening drain plug.

26. Throw crescent wrench across the garage in anger. Throw a fit because crescent wrench hits bowling trophy (which wife wouldn't let stay in the house).

27. Open another beer and drink it.

28. Clean hands, bandaging where needed to stop blood flow.

29. Pour in five quarts of fresh oil.

30. Lower car from jack stands. Smile at your handiwork. Open another beer and drink it.

31. Move car back to discover oil puddles you missed; apply more kitty litter to missed areas.

32. Test drive car to make sure oil doesn't leak.

33. Get pulled over a block from the house by local police, get arrested for DUI.

34. Call loving wife and bail bondsman.

35. Next day, get car out of impound yard.

Cost: $50 parts, $20 beer, Impound fee $75, Bail $1500, DUI $2500 minimum.

Total: $4145 (but you know the job was done right!)

[Forrest r]

Don't really know how long I take making 223 ammo since I also cast #300+ pounds of lead a year that needs either sized/lubed/coated/swaged to feed several different calibers.

Guess you missed the memo, the part where I posted I do 5000+ rounds of 223 a year. I bought the cheap savage axis to "test" home swaged bullets. I feed several m4's for the other 4600+ rounds a year.

Doesn't take long to post pictures, took less than 1 minute to post this picture of a couple of my favorite pistol powders. Bought these 2 years ago & it's time to replace the am select and the clays.


How long does it take for you to go thru #24 of pistol powder in the 9mm/38spl/357/44spl/44mag/45acp ? Hence the #300+ pound of lead a year used for casting.

Of course I enjoy what I do, been reloading since the 70's (1974), casting since 85?, and swaging bullets since 1990.

I did take a break from centerfires for a couple of years (2006 to 2009) and spent several thousand $$$ on high quality 22lr firearms. Shot them in the past and really wanted to learn about them so I invested in winchester 52's, 40x's, anschutz's and several olympic pistols along with cases of sk, eley & lapua.

Anyway, used to buy bulk 223 bullets (hornady 55gr sp's) and load/shoot 1000's of 223's a year. Took a hard look at the cost of the cheap bullets and found that if I swaged my own bullets out of free material it would pay for the primers and powder.

223 ammo
$.06 a round or $300/5000 rounds
Only the reloader can decide if it's worth it or not

[MJFlores]

I haven't reloaded 5.56 since ammo became available again. Even if you have a good supply of your own brass, you dont save a dime when buying bulk. You can actually save money by buying the right bulk. I agree with getting him the tools and teaching him to reload, but the bulk he'll likely shoot will most likely be bulk purchased ammo.