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Old 03-17-2018, 09:04 AM
Eddietruett Eddietruett is offline
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Default How accurate is really accurate

I'm curious to find out what the good shooters here consider really good accuracy from an out of the box revolver with no modifications other than a red dot or scope with the right load combination of course. Mainly in the 50-100 yard range. I've spent the last several months working up different loads for my 6 & 8" 686 revolvers and just wondering if I'm getting anywhere close to where the experts would be satisfied. Even off a rest, my over 60 eyes and hands aren't what they were 30 years ago but I've been able to get accuracy that I didn't think I would ever see. I can consistently ring a 4" round metal plate at 80 yards. That's the limit to my backyard range. That's using a red dot with no magnification. I certainly would like to get better, but not sure what is possible without making major modifications to the guns. Most of the loads I shoot are coated lead 130-158 gr loaded around 900-1000fps but I can get that kind of accuracy going full bore magnum as well but not going to spend my afternoon popping off 200 rounds of loaded to the hilt magnums. What do you expert marksmen find acceptable?
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:39 AM
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Default I'm not a great shooter......

... but a 4" target at 80 yards sounds pretty darn good to me.

Yeah, not being able to see or hold a gun steady messes with your aim. I used to be something of a deadeye with a small rifle, but that was a long long time ago. Would a little magnification on your red dot sight help?
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:53 AM
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4" with a revolver at 80 yards without magnification? I wish I was that good!
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:54 AM
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Iíve got a 2.5x pistol scope Iím gonna mount on one next week just to see but most of the handgun hunters Iíve talked to say the non magnified red dot is better for hunting. Easier target acquisition but I hunted deer for years with a rifle and never had problems finding my target with a scope.
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:09 AM
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I shoot a fair amount of 100 yard steel with a handgun in 357 mag, 357 max, 44 spl, 44 mag, 45 colt. I handload.

For a good amateur shooter, not an expert competitor, at 100 yards :
Using a scope, I think 3" is excellent.
Using a red dot, 4" is excellent.
Iron sights with 60 year old eyes, I think 5" groups are excellent.

With expert competitor, 2" groups are not unusual shooting without a rest or scope. I do not believe this is attainable by normal human beings.

IMO, your 4" at 80 yards using unmodified 686 with red dot is excellent. Without serious time and money, it's going to be tough to see big improvements.
Many of my silhouette type handguns have scopes now. My eyes are bad. Scopes brought me back into handgun shooting and what a joy it has been.

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Old 03-17-2018, 11:33 AM
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Remember that the difference between the point of aim and the point of impact can change significantly with distance, especially so with handguns. Shooting on a range at targets at known distances is much different from shooting wild game at variable and usually unknown distances. Competitive Bullseye shooters generally do not shoot at range targets beyond 50 yards. Silhouette shooters fire at targets considerably further out, but they are much larger targets and also at known distances.

If you can reasonably consistently hit a 4" target at 80 yards, there is not too much room for improvement remaining.
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Old 03-17-2018, 11:38 AM
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Massad Ayoob said once that if you can consistently hit a standard paper plate at the range you expect to hunt in it is good enough to ensure the probability of a kill.
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Old 03-17-2018, 11:48 AM
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4'' at 80 yds is accurate.Try that with some other revolvers or autos and you will start to like your 686 even better.
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Old 03-17-2018, 11:58 AM
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Judging by the targets I see at my local range, I'd say acceptable accuracy is a 24" group at 7yds.
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Old 03-17-2018, 12:10 PM
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I consider this accurate enough at 25 meters.
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Old 03-17-2018, 01:35 PM
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IMO most quality revolvers are capable of greater accuracy that 99.5% of the shooters out there. With a red dot with ANY age eyes hitting a 4 inch target shooting offhand at 80 yards is exceptional. Off a rest doing the same with a reflex sight is very very good.

BTW, I have a model 620 that I normally keep a J Point reflex on and with that setup shooting off a rest 1.5-2.0 inch groups at 35 yards is what I consider a very good day. I also got curious about the absolute accuracy potential of my 620 with a 2 power scope on it and learned three things. One is that Recoil Management is an ACQUIRED SKILL and how you manage Recoil can effect the Point of Impact. Two, any flaw in trigger technique will shot up downrange. Three, I won't ever be certain of the actual accuracy of my 620 because I won't ever be that good. Best I was able to manage after practicing twice a week for 6 weeks was 7/8 inch at 50 yards.

BTW, wont every try to do that again. Because maintaining skills at that level requires dedication, discipline, and a huge amount of practice. Me, I am perfectly happy to simply be a "good" shot, and have a bit of free time do do anything that appeals to me.
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:06 PM
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My 8" 686 with 2X Leupold shoots 4" off a rest on a 100yd target all day, any day with 158grSP hunting loads.


Put it in the hands of the average offhand shooter I see at the range might get 4" at 5 yds. Shooting offhand is testing the shooter, not the equipment.
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:19 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Iím starting to feel better about my accuracy. I got back into acquiring Smiths about 2 years ago after going over 30 years without pulling a single trigger. I remember back in the 70ís when I hunted a lot and here in SC the favorite rifle was the Winchester thutty thutty. I hunted with a bunch of guys who were lucky to hit a pie plate at 100 yards with open sights but they killed a lot of deer. Iím hoping to hunt some this fcoming winter with a handgun. Knowing that the .357 is on the lower end power wise, that shot placement is the key to being successful.
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Old 03-18-2018, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddietruett View Post
Iíve got a 2.5x pistol scope Iím gonna mount on one next week just to see but most of the handgun hunters Iíve talked to say the non magnified red dot is better for hunting. Easier target acquisition but I hunted deer for years with a rifle and never had problems finding my target with a scope.
Magnification on a rifle works well because with the rifle, the butt is firmly planted in your shoulder, strong hand grasps the grip area, weak hand is supporting the forearm of the stock. That's three points of contact with a rifle; quite stable. With a handgun, strong hand on the grip, weak hand wrapped around the strong hand. That's one point of contact. Magnifcation on a handgun will really let you know just how much that firearm is wobbling around as you try to shoot.

And, yes, the more magnification, the narrower the field of view. With no magnification, you have the greatest field of view and shooting with both eyes open is easier to accomplish.

Just my two cents.
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:04 AM
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I see 4'' group, 7 yard targets posted on this and other gun forums like people are so proud of them. That said, hitting a 4" target at 80 yds. benched fairly consistently from a stock 686 is pretty darn good accuracy in anybody's book.
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:19 AM
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I THINK you are there! Back in the day drink cans @ 50-100 yards was pretty good. Today 50+ yards is for rifles. For stock (NO optics) hand held, standing shots: popcicle sticks & fired shotgun shells @ 10-15 yards, lemmons @ 20-25 (real good), oranges not bad. Grapefruits @ 50+ & Id be a happy camper. Free citrus fruit at certain times of the year is a FL bonus.

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Old 03-18-2018, 12:49 PM
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The Russian Toz 35 Free Pistol (single shot .22LR, with an approximately one ounce trigger pull - adjustable all the way up to one pound) can place 10 rounds into a 1/2" area at 50 yards.

I consider that insanely great accuracy, never achievable in my hands.
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collects View Post
The Russian Toz 35 Free Pistol (single shot .22LR, with an approximately one ounce trigger pull - adjustable all the way up to one pound) can place 10 rounds into a 1/2" area at 50 yards.

I consider that insanely great accuracy, never achievable in my hands.
And that is not even the "cat's whiskers" of Free Pistol.
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Old 03-18-2018, 01:11 PM
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This reminds me, back a few months ago at the range I was shooting next to a guy that was sighting in his .270 rifle at 50yds. He walked down grabbed his target and come showed me and was thrilled to death with his 2" group. So I guess happiness is what you compare it to.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluetopper View Post
This reminds me, back a few months ago at the range I was shooting next to a guy that was sighting in his .270 rifle at 50yds. He walked down grabbed his target and come showed me and was thrilled to death with his 2" group. So I guess happiness is what you compare it to.
Ironically it seems guys like this will be the only one in camp to kill a deer! Many years ago I witnessed (or wouldnít believe it) a hunter in our group killed a walking deer at 200+ yards with a Renington 743 auto. Hit the deer perfectly behind the shoulder and dropped it in its tracks. Later that day we decided to have a little shooting competition back at camp. He could not hit a pie plate at 100 yards! His scope was so far out he was shooting about 6Ē off, but he was the one with the meat.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:16 PM
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So we will assume you are shooting off some sort of rest? My ruger bh hunter will do 3" off a bench with 2x leupold. Plenty good for hunting to 125-150.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddietruett View Post
Ironically it seems guys like this will be the only one in camp to kill a deer! Many years ago I witnessed (or wouldnít believe it) a hunter in our group killed a walking deer at 200+ yards with a Renington 743 auto. Hit the deer perfectly behind the shoulder and dropped it in its tracks. Later that day we decided to have a little shooting competition back at camp. He could not hit a pie plate at 100 yards! His scope was so far out he was shooting about 6Ē off, but he was the one with the meat.
Better lucky than good!
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:07 AM
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ln Feb 1944 US Battliships New Jersey and lowa damaged the Japanese

destroyer Nowaki @ 35,70yds with their 16 inch guns.. lts the longest

shot on record. More amazing still, both shooter AND target were moving

at high speed. Those sixteen inch guns on New Jersey and lowa were true

M A G N U M S developing 303 MILLION foot pounds of energy!!!
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:30 AM
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Default Bench is too easy....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
My 8" 686 with 2X Leupold shoots 4" off a rest on a 100yd target all day, any day with 158grSP hunting loads.


Put it in the hands of the average offhand shooter I see at the range might get 4" at 5 yds. Shooting offhand is testing the shooter, not the equipment.
I don't get much satisfaction from shooting off a bench. I figure whatever I can do offhand would only improve with a bench rest. There's a point where the equipment becomes more of a factor.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collects View Post
The Russian Toz 35 Free Pistol (single shot .22LR, with an approximately one ounce trigger pull - adjustable all the way up to one pound) can place 10 rounds into a 1/2" area at 50 yards.

I consider that insanely great accuracy, never achievable in my hands.
Any of the russian olympic pistols are well worth the $$$.
10m .177 air pistol
25m sport pistol
50m free pistol


I'm not a "good" shooter as the op put it by any means.

Accuracy with any firearm ='s hitting what your aiming at. Used to shoot bowling pins @ 100yds. Same rules as the standard 25ft game, just 100 yds. Shoot another version of bowling pins now, we setup 12ga shotgun shells on the bowling pin table and shoot them instead of bowling pins @ 50ft instead of the standard 25ft. A couple of different loads I use for the 50ft game.


Rifle smallbore silhouettes:
Typically shot @ 100yds with rifles standing/offhand. I like to go up against the rifles with a contender setup with a 4-12 rifle scope standing using a modified taco hold. A 100yd ram shot offhand with the contender pictured below.


How accurate is accurate?
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Old 03-19-2018, 11:01 AM
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First, let me say that hitting a 4” disc consistently at 80 yds with a red dot is excellent accuracy in my opinion. I’m not sure that I could even see that target at 80 yds anymore. Three inches or better at 100 yds is outstanding with a revolver.

Here are some examples of what I consider good accuracy for "field revolvers" using open sights, red dot, and scopes. All are rested. I’m sure some of these guns would should better with someone else doing the shooting. With the heavier guns, I consider 2 and 3 shot groups adequate to verify POI.

4” M617 w/Leupold 4x, rested at 100 yds



44 Magnum open sights, rested at 100 yds
M69 4 ľ” upper right diagonal
M629 6” Classic DX lower circled group
Everything else off hand with M69



M69 2.75” opend sights rested on range bag at 50 yds



6” Freedom Arms .454, sighting in J Point reddot, rested 50 yds (fall of 2017)



5” Custom Freedom Arms 500 JRH, 4x Leupold, rested on tonneau of pickup, 52 yds, 4 different loads 370gr thru 440gr.



One last pic – Custom 500 JRH



FWIW,

Paul

Last edited by Paul105; 03-19-2018 at 11:06 AM.
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