I could be late to the party, but I just saw an ad for a new powder from Winchester. IIRC it is 244. Of course supposed to be the greatest ever. Looks like it’s designed for target loads. Anyone tried it?

Looked the loading data up....... not the same as w231.

It is said to have a copper reducer in it and work like w231.

I still have a lot of w231 to use, maybe later?

American Rifleman | New: Winchester WinClean 244 Powder

You will be required to dump out all your old powder so you can be new and improved

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Still Running Against the Wind

so which Hodgdon labeled powder will this be ? wonder if it is same as IMR Unequal.
Powders are consolidating, which is fine these newer ones are working good with coated cast bullets. Cooler and less smoke. But they will be the same powders being sold with different labels and probably prices on them.

CFE Pistol?

Why do they offer the same powder with different names? I don't get it.

Who said it was the same as CFE Pistol??

They are different on the burn rate chart but who knows they could very well be the same.

Much like Win 231 and Hp 38 or Win 296 and H110

The Winchester "name" usually brings a few dollars more.

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Still Running Against the Wind

It’s not CFE. It’s mildly slower than 231 on the charts, which makes it much faster than CFE Pistol. CFE Pistol is slower than Unique on the same charts if memory serves me right.

In a 3.5" 9mm with a 124gr plated bullet at 1.14" oal................
w231 @ 1030fps, CFE @ 1097, Unique @ 1150fps

with a 5" barrel;
w231 @ 1153, CFE @ 1205fps, Unique @ 1267fps.

I don't think CFE is slower than Unique, but all three will work.

I'll have to find some and compare with CFE which I like to use in 9mm. Not as soft shooting as Titegroup but it seems to perform as advertised and makes it easy to clean.

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/u...rate-color.pdf

Unique is #32 and CFE Pistol is #45 on the hodgdon chart. Interesting findings you show as it illustrates the opposite.

What charge weights were you using, Ed?

SLT223;

Those were full loads from my three most trusted manuals.

I don't trust burn rate charts after 1990..........
some are made up as a selling point, I think, where they fudge
to get their powders bought over the other companies.

Burn rate is caliber, bullet , weapon, elevation, related, so there is no REAL
set of burn speeds that can be set in stone.

My chrony tells me the burn rate and energy of a powder, when
used in my loads of all my weapons.
With IMR4227, I just dump enough out of a 38 case to get a bullet in
and fire away with a almost factory fps load. (Joke)

Later.

So what are your three most trusted manuals? I'd like to add them to my collection.

Burn rates are listed as "RELATIVE" burn rates. The whole chart has powders from super fast to super slow INCLUDING rifle powders They are fairly accurate as to burn speed as tested, they are not just made up.

So you disagree that say Bullseye is not a faster Powder than Unique? Which one fills a case up more?

caliber, bullet , weapon, elevation make no difference in the rate of burn Elevation may to some extend but would be equal for all. Same with temp unless they are new and improved "extreme powders"

So the burn rate number of a fast pistol powder is shown REALATIVE to all powders on that chart ie the slowest ones.

Your chrony does not tell you anything about burn rate
It can only tell you velocity and you are basing that velocity on some perceived notion of burn speed , bullet weight and powder charge.

Unless the whole post is "a joke"

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Still Running Against the Wind

But what effect does clean brass have on velocity versus accuracy? Will 45 ACP loaded with 255 grain 45 Colt bullets make my butt look fat if I don't use CFE pistol powder?

Too many choices and decisions.

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S&WHF 366

No Idea, but they been doing it for years. Same powders different labels..
Hodgdon Winchester and IMR are all the same company now. These companies used to compete and had very similar if not the same powders. Like H110 and W296, or HP38 and W231.
These powder were so close to identical that if I owned them both now I wouldnt bother making them both just one batch two labels.
Just about marketing, people want what they want. Guy been using H110 for years wont want to buy W296

Hodgdon distributes Winchester powders. Winchester charges a royalty for the use of the Winchester brand. So, Winchester 231 costs more than the identical powder HP38.

Why do people still buy Win231? Because it's what they have always used and they don't know or refuse to believe it's the exact same powder as HP38.

Those aren't my answers, they are Chris Hodgdon's during an interview 3 years ago.

The odd thing is that new WW231 doesn't look much like the old 231. Much lighter tone and less uniform shape than it used to be. (I still have the old stuff, lots of it!)

IMR4227 ("post DuPont") also changed some years back, although it was Canadian production "before" and "after" the change. Went from uniformly short grains that were about the same length as the diameter to rather more random length grains. (On my last can of the old stuff.)

Is Winchester 244 just a version of an already existing Hodgdon powder? Which one?

I like the older manuals that have not been butchered.......
plus I use a lot of the older powders in my revolver/pistol loads.

Speer, Nosler and Sierra also put out good data but I will not use
Hodgden's data due to errors and their information given.

Here are my go to manuals for my revolver/pistol loadings.
Note: the Speer 38 data is with a "K" frame !!
The bottom load will work in J frames.... use caution.


free image storage sharing

Probably really is a new powder, all the companies have come out with new powders, which probably have more to do with figuring out cheaper ways to make them.
They are in near same burn rates as some of the most popular powders, but IMO really are new and better powders especially if u run Moly , Poly or Hiteck coated cast bullets.
Powders in this new wave like Alliants Sport Pistol, BE 86, Hodgdon CFE, and probably this 244 produce less smoke and fouling.
Gonna give VV a run for their money. I just started with Be86 and coated bullets. VERY impressed. Want to get my hands on Sport Pistol for light stuff.
Ideally Id like a new one in between Be 86 and 2400 to try for mid level magnum loads.

VV? Lots of 3N37 magnum data out there. I've settled on 3N38 for short-barrel 357 applications. Sierra has rifle data with this powder.

One of the things VV powders had going for it was it tended to be cleaner with the various coated bullets than the Alliant/Hodgdon/Win powders.
But it is also quite a bit more expensive.
There are Powders like BE 86, and Sport Pistol, and probably CFE pistol, show alot of promise in haveing the same advantages of VV at lower prices.
May try a pound of CFE in shorter barrel 357 and 44, see how I like it.
Although now adays I dont shoot enough volume for cleanliness to be an isssue.

When my Dad started loading about 50 years ago, he got that Speer #8 manual. I still have it and often look through it just for the memories.